Athearn just announced the new SD40 for their RTR, and they are offering a DCC an sound version for $184.98 (DC version $134.98). We will finally have a low cost DCC and sound locomotive that has great details. I have a Athearn RTR SD40-2, one of the new ones that is DCC ready, and the details are outstanding! While the rice has gone up a bit on the RTR locomotives, the quality is a lot better.
Now all they need is to have an SD70ACe in the RTR line.
Interesting development.
Incidentally, the link as you posted it is broke.
Try this.
http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/071814/03_RTR_SD40_0071814.pdf
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks for posting the link, when I tried to insert the link, it messed up the formatting. I tried to fix the formating, but in doing so, I must of broken the link. I ended up getting rid of it in my post.
Glad I could help.
Very interesting development by Athearn.
Thanks for posting this thread.
I just checked Athearn's web site to see whose sound decoder they're going to be using, and it will be a SoundTraxx Tsunami.
At least that part of it will have been made in the USA.
Athearn uses the SoundTraxx Tsunami on their Genesis line as well.
Hmmm. Odd.
So the price difference between DCC/Sound and DC is 50 bucks? Only $50 for a factory installed sound decoder and speaker? Really?
Perhaps they are finally trying to price DC folks out of the hobby by taking away the traditional price advantage.
- Douglas
Well, Athearn and SoundTraxx must have worked out some sort of deal because not only is SoundTraxx producing the sound decoders for Athearn locos but SoundTraxx is also producing specific variations of its sound decoder line to fit specific Athearn locos. If that is, in fact, the case, then the SoundTraxx line is probably heavily discounted to Athearn based upon sheer volume.
So, maybe not so odd.
I have seven of the undec models from the 2010 run.......their plastic is crap.........has some kind of delrin / teflon mix that not a single glue will stick to............these are the first and last Athearn locos I will ever own.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
(Forgot to quote Richhotrain)
That's certainly possible. $50 including installation is a pretty good discount.
For having four product lines, RTR DC and DCCsound, and Genesis DC, DCCsound, the price of their base model seems a bit inflated compared to the rest.
I know with cars and houses, companies don't necessarily want to provide "too much value" in their base models, since it will tend to discourage sales of their premium offerings.
I don't know if MRR companies are big enough to go down that road though. Their pricing is probably just based on having a certain cost for building the base loco, then incremental charges for each step up. Like we consumers think it should be.
what's weird is that I thought their RTR line was supposed to be their "economic" version of their genesis product line.
Well now one RTR engine costs around $100.00, even in trainworld!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLb3FRqukolAtnD1khrb6lQ
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
Once SoundTraxx has passed the engineering and development phase of producing a sound decoder and has their automated assembly line all set up, they can produce them for pennies each in actual components, so for sales to a major bulk manufacturer such as Athearn they can no doubt offer substantial discounts and write some of it off to "advertising value."
Some of you may remember that Athearn canceled a run of SD40's a couple years ago because the tooling was damaged/worn out. They have cut all-new (modular) tooling for the these SD40's, so at some point we should be seeing variations (IC SD40A, anyone?)
Also, the Tsunami's in the RTR line will be less full-featured than the Genesis Tsunami's - Think fewer horn selections, no F5 and F6 number board lighting and ditch lights, etc. That no doubt helps keep the price down.
Everything considered, I think this is good for the hobby, and for Athearn. I have my eye on one or two of these already...
It's a shame that the price is going up for the DC only models. I remember when I could get a RTR model for $90 at my local hobby shop. Then it went to 100. Then to 115. Now it's at $135.
I think with the ready to run models it is ok if they are not as detailed as they are making them now as long as they hit a good price point, under $100. Running DC it used to be nice to be able to get 2 locomotives, pay $200 and run them together in a consist. Now it's going to be $270 to do the same, which is getting a bit expensive.
If they are trying to get me to switch to DCC I am not amused. I also hate that Broadway Limited cancelled their Blueline line that didn't have DCC forcing modelers to pay the DCC tax if they want to run under only DC.
Long live the J!
BMR777 It's a shame that the price is going up for the DC only models. I remember when I could get a RTR model for $90 at my local hobby shop. Then it went to 100. Then to 115. Now it's at $135. I think with the ready to run models it is ok if they are not as detailed as they are making them now as long as they hit a good price point, under $100. Running DC it used to be nice to be able to get 2 locomotives, pay $200 and run them together in a consist. Now it's going to be $270 to do the same, which is getting a bit expensive. If they are trying to get me to switch to DCC I am not amused. I also hate that Broadway Limited cancelled their Blueline line that didn't have DCC forcing modelers to pay the DCC tax if they want to run under only DC.
The light boards and DCC quick plugs have added to the cost. Not to mention the MU cables, snowplows, and different details for each.specific road number. If you want cheap Bachmann has their cheap DCC locomotives for 80-100 dollars, but think they look to toy like, not like a model.
KyleThe light boards and DCC quick plugs have added to the cost. Not to mention the MU cables, snowplows, and different details for each.specific road number. If you want cheap Bachmann has their cheap DCC locomotives for 80-100 dollars, but think they look to toy like, not like a model.
Food for thought..
At street prices Athearn's RTR DCC/Sound locomotives will be a direct competitor to Bachmann's "Sound value" locomotives.
Will atlas add DCC/Sound to their Trainman locomotives?
IMHO it would be a smart move if they did.
I will quickly add that I use my MRC Tech 6 far more in DCC mode then DC..I even added decoders to two of my favorite Athearn RTR SW1500s and 2 of my favorite CF7s- DCC plug/play is so quick and easy.
As you may recall my ISL is only 1' x 10'.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I was thinking the same thing Athearn is going head to head with Bachmann on the low end DCC market. Perhaps soundtraxx is supplying Athearn with similar decoders. I have 2 Bachmann units which run well perhaps these Athearn units are worth a look.
Joe Staten Island West
Unfortunately, the decoders will probably have the same "features" of their big brothers, problematical low speed motor control, and missing CVs 5 and 6.
maxman Unfortunately, the decoders will probably have the same "features" of their big brothers, problematical low speed motor control, and missing CVs 5 and 6.
Well Bachmann's DCC/Sound decoders have CV5 and CV6 plus BEMF so,I suspect Athearn will do no less..
At street prices Athearn will be offering a superior product for a few bucks more..
SInce when do the Tsunamis in Bachmanns have CV5 and CV6? They'd be the first and only Tsunamis to support that. Even the Tsunami motor-only decoders don't do CV5 and CV6.
TO hit this price point, these have to be be similar to the Bachmann Sound Value decoders, less features than the mostly all there Athearn versions used in the Genesis series.
WIll Atlas put sound in Trainman level models? Well, they've cut over to using Loksound, and as of yet there doesn;t seem to be a cute rate version for OEMs with some of the features dialed back. I'd rather the loco be DC only with space to fit a decoder than it come with a feature reduced version of the decoder. Bowser's sound locos use fully functional Loksound decoders, no stripped function models. When they offered their locos with Tsunami, they used a full Tsunami, not a cut down OEM version.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker SInce when do the Tsunamis in Bachmanns have CV5 and CV6? They'd be the first and only Tsunamis to support that. Even the Tsunami motor-only decoders don't do CV5 and CV6. TO hit this price point, these have to be be similar to the Bachmann Sound Value decoders, less features than the mostly all there Athearn versions used in the Genesis series. Will Atlas put sound in Trainman level models? Well, they've cut over to using Loksound, and as of yet there doesn;t seem to be a cute rate version for OEMs with some of the features dialed back. I'd rather the loco be DC only with space to fit a decoder than it come with a feature reduced version of the decoder. Bowser's sound locos use fully functional Loksound decoders, no stripped function models. When they offered their locos with Tsunami, they used a full Tsunami, not a cut down OEM version. --Randy
Will Atlas put sound in Trainman level models? Well, they've cut over to using Loksound, and as of yet there doesn;t seem to be a cute rate version for OEMs with some of the features dialed back. I'd rather the loco be DC only with space to fit a decoder than it come with a feature reduced version of the decoder. Bowser's sound locos use fully functional Loksound decoders, no stripped function models. When they offered their locos with Tsunami, they used a full Tsunami, not a cut down OEM version.
I shall let you judge.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM%20pages/bachmann/ho_fa2_sv.pdf
Randy,Like I said if Atlas is smart they will join Athearn and enter the sound value market..If not Bachmann will be the winner in the lower end DCC/Sound market.
Too many folks like DCC/ Sound and given a choice between a $119.99 sound equipped GP7 or a #199.99 DCC/Sound equipped GP7 the cheaper will win.The common street prices used.
Now Bachmann will be adding a DCC/Sound GP40-we probably be seeing their SD40-2 offered with DCC/Sound.
BRAKIE I shall let you judge. http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM%20pages/bachmann/ho_fa2_sv.pdf
Unless something has changed, all of the included CV charts/instructions for the OEM supplied locos default to the Soundtraxx technical reference. That reference is here: http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/tsunami_diesel_technical_reference_0213.pdf. You will see that CVs 5 and 6 are not listed. And if you have been following many of the speed matching questions on this forum, you will note that the lack of CVs 5 and 6 is a common complaint.
Did you bother to look at the list of CVs that comes with Bachmann's Alcos?
That's the list of CVs I used in setting CVs on my S4..There is a CV5 and CV6
CV2 is V Start, CV5 is V Max while CV6 is V Mid while CVs 67-94 is the speed tables.
CVs 212-214 is motor control and CV216 is BEMF.
BRAKIEDid you bother to look at the list of CVs that comes with Bachmann's Alcos?
Yes, I did. And I saw that the default values are zero. If the default value of zero for CV 5 and 6 means the same as for CV 2, that means no voltage. So, in my mind, if those CVs actually come with a value of zero, I don't see how the loco runs out of the box.
Again, it is possible that something has been changed. If that is the case, then there has been an improvement.
I have to ask....did you actually try to make changes to CVs 5 and 6? Did you speed match your locos? If those two CVs actually now exist, then Soundtraxx needs to make a change to their technical manual. Right now I remain skeptical.
Did you actually try to make changes to CVs 5 and 6?
---------------------------------------------------
Yes..I ended up with the results that was unsatisfactory for slow speed switching-could have been user error.I used CV2 and momentum instead.
---------------------------------------------
Right now I remain skeptical.
Did you speed match your locos?
Yes,playing around with both of my DCC On Board 70 Tonners.
I fully understand that but,its there for all to see in the DCC CV instructions that comes with the S4 and I copied and paste that directly from Soundtraxx web page..
BRAKIE I fully understand that but,its there for all to see in the DCC CV instructions that comes with the S4 and I copied and paste that directly from Soundtraxx web page..
Okay, doing what I should have done in the first place, I called Soundtraxx. I was told that the Diesel Technical Reference manual is mainly to support the Tsunami decoder line.
It turns out that the Sound Value decoders are built around what Soundtraxx calls their MC2 motor decoder line. I was told that the Sound Value decoders support CV 5 and CV 6. I was told that this is across the entire Sound Value line. The zero default values are in there so that you start off with a (theoretical?) linear speed curve.
So, Brakie, you are correct.
Trainman440 what's weird is that I thought their RTR line was supposed to be their "economic" version of their genesis product line.
Not strictly speaking. Athearns RTR line has always been a bit of a conundrum. They really have a range of detail and price level within their RTR line ranging from their "economic" F7, based on ancient tooling, and up from there you have the GP40-2 and GP35 for a little higher cost, and at the high end of the RTR line are the SD45's, SD40T-2's and SD45T-2's with many prototypic specific details - near Genesis level. The SD40-2 is in a similar class as the SD45 and tunnel motors and priced similarly.
As for the Athearn SD40 competing against the economic Bachmann sound diesel line, that doesn't really make total sense to me, or it certainly isn't that simple at the outset. Why? Because the Athearn SD40 is a newly tooled HO diesel meant to have features that match many prototype diesels. Most of Bachmanns diesels with sound are based on the old generic diesel bodies that have been around for many years AFAIK. They may be suitable for some folks, especially in a few cases where the bodies are reasonable close to a few prototypes, but otherwise the Athearn SD40 should be a "near genesis" model in terms of the body and detail, the main differences being the motor is not Genesis.
As far as the sound decoder goes, some may have already pointed out that Athearn may be usinga stripped down version of the Tusnami decoder so it will be missing a number of sounds and settings - even the ones used in the Genesis models are partially stripped down - e.g. only a few horns vs. a whole library of horns (full featured separately sold Tsunami).
I'm not a big sound fan but I may pick up one of the sound units when they come out in SP just to have a few to mess around with or when people see the layout in operation.
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761As for the Athearn SD40 competing against the economic Bachmann sound diesel line, that doesn't really make total sense to me, or it certainly isn't that simple at the outset. Why? Because the Athearn SD40 is a newly tooled HO diesel meant to have features that match many prototype diesels. Most of Bachmanns diesels with sound are based on the old generic diesel bodies that have been around for many years AFAIK. They may be suitable for some folks, especially in a few cases where the bodies are reasonable close to a few prototypes, but otherwise the Athearn SD40 should be a "near genesis" model in terms of the body and detail, the main differences being the motor is not Genesis.
Jim,Heres the rub..
Bachmann GP7 with DCC/Sound is $119.00 street vs.Athearn's Genesis DCC/Sound GP7 at $199.99 street.
The majority of the modelers will grab two Bachmann sound equipped GP7s over 1 Genesis GP7s which is still plentiful and can be had for $99.00 DCC ready and still getting dust covered.
Both GP7s sound alike Bachmann has a limited(3 ?) horn choices whereas Genesis has several.Both has Rule 17 and bell speed selection(Bachmann IIRC has 2) not sure on the Genesis.
As far as detail its no contest and not worth mentioning except in the DCC ready Geeps then for a few bucks more Genesis GP7 is the best choice.In fact I've seen both at the same price $99.00.
Let's return to the RTR sound..Athearn is wise in their decision to embrace the low end sound market given a choice I'm sure Athearn RTR sound locomotives would be a clear winner.
Atlas should enter the low end sound market as well..
Turning up the heat..Bachmann has announced a DCC/Sound GP40-a direct competitor to the Atlas and Athearn GP40-2 DCC/Sound equipped locomotive-street price should be around $120.00 for the Bachmann GP40-2.
But,Larry those are generic models!!!
True,very true but,lower end DCC/Sound generic locomotive may be a cash cow since the majority doesn't care that much about the finer details especially on a low cost DCC/Sound locomotive vs. the higher price DCC/Sound locomotives which may be above the average modeler means in today's busted up economy and higher costs of just surviving from paycheck to paycheck..
Look how you can enter the world of DCC for around $130.00 street..Less if you use Bachmann's E-Z DCC system.
I don't see any rub. The Athearn RTR SD40 with sound will cost more because they are offering a diesel with more prototype specific details and generally serve a different customer than those who buy Bachmann sound, namely those who prefer more accurate diesel models. The cheaper sound is a bonus.
For the most part Bachmann goes after a different customer than Athearn, although there is some over lap - some people just buy what they like from a lower cost pool and don't care that much about specifically matching certain classes of diesels - but it isn't that simple. Our fellow Atlas forum member James, who does YouTube reviews did comment how Bachmann wasn't happy with his reviews of their diesels, when he met them at the NMRA show - but he does call'em as he see's em, and he does look more than just the "surface" when he does his review. James doesn't seem to be a rivit counter either.
In the end, I certainly can't fault Bachmann for going after a market that offers them successful sales. There are lots of markets, Bachmann is exploiting the lower tier of the hobby and doing pretty well.
riogrande5761I don't see any rub. The Athearn RTR SD40 with sound will cost more because they are offering a diesel with more prototype specific details and generally serve a different customer than those who buy Bachmann sound, namely those who prefer more accurate diesel models.
Jim,Look beyond the trees and you will see the forest-well that's what my history teacher always said. lol..
I suspect street on Athearns SD40 will be close to Bachmann's sound value locomotives.
I suspected either Athearn or Atlas would counter Bachmann's marketing statagy...
Let's look at it realistically.
Would you buy a Bachmann Sound value GP40 for $119.00 or a Athearn RTR GP40-2 with DCC/ Sound for $129.00 street?
The Genesis GP40-2 would be for those that wants 100% accuracy while the RTR GP40-2 will hit the low end spectrum of DCC/Sound..
A win/win for all.