richhotrain Let me try to say this another way. The OP raised the issue of dirty track that need to be cleaned, not dirty wheels. So I am addressing the issue of dirty track. Without exaggeration, I can honestly say that I never have to clean my tracking except after gluing down ballast. At one time, now long ago, I had to clean my track regularly because of streaks of black gunk on the rails. This black gunk could also be observed on metal wheels on my locos and on rolling stock with metal wheels. When I mentioned this to the guys at my LHS, they blamed the black gunk deposits on plastic wheels. So, I set about to replace all of the plastic wheels on my rolling stock, and the problem ended. I don't know what else to say. The plastic wheels seemed to be a source of black gunk and, after removing all of the plastic wheels, the problem went away and I no longer had to clean track. Rich
Let me try to say this another way.
The OP raised the issue of dirty track that need to be cleaned, not dirty wheels. So I am addressing the issue of dirty track. Without exaggeration, I can honestly say that I never have to clean my tracking except after gluing down ballast.
At one time, now long ago, I had to clean my track regularly because of streaks of black gunk on the rails. This black gunk could also be observed on metal wheels on my locos and on rolling stock with metal wheels. When I mentioned this to the guys at my LHS, they blamed the black gunk deposits on plastic wheels. So, I set about to replace all of the plastic wheels on my rolling stock, and the problem ended.
I don't know what else to say. The plastic wheels seemed to be a source of black gunk and, after removing all of the plastic wheels, the problem went away and I no longer had to clean track.
Rich
Still trying to get my point across!
You state you had the Black Crud on the rails and attributed it to the Plastic Wheels!
I Stated:
I had mostly Plastic Wheels (until just recently) and had NO Black Crud!
This is what I was saying - "We must be living in two different Worlds (parts of the country) and having different findings"
I appeariently didn't write it properly for you to understand!
Either it is the Environment the Layouts reside in or the weather each of our Layouts is exposed to through out the year that makes the Layouts different!
I never clean - wipe - drag the rails unless I have glued or painted the track - and then it is only in the area being worked on!
We just run the trains and my wheels (Metal or Plastic) has been keeping the rails clean by picking up the dirt!
It is that now with ALL Metal Wheels - I will be a bit more observent to see if the dirt builds up faster!
Or if the rails now will have the dirt build up on them!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
richhotrainWhen I refer to black gunk, I mean that this stuff was like gum, not just black streaks.
Ahh..Yes..That gunk..Nasty stuff that.
I'm not fully convence on what that nasty stuff is. Plastic wheels may be one of the causes.
Although I've seen it and have cleaned it,I'm still not sure what that crap is made of..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Let me clarify something. I wasn't suggesting that metal wheels don't get dirty.
What I was saying is that my track rails got dirty quite often when I had plastic wheels on my rolling stock. And, then, the metal wheels on my locos picked up black gunk off the rails. When I swapped out the plastic wheels on my rolling stock and replaced them with metal wheels, this all stopped. My conclusion was that the plastic wheels were the cause of the problem.
My findings have been the exact same as yours, Rich! My layout is not located in the cleanest of environments and goes through periods of time where it gets no use. When I get back to it, I will go over everything with a "Bright Boy" (maybe takes 1 hour, or; so to do). Then, like John Allen, I have a half dozen box cars with weighted Masonite rail head polishers in them, that keep the rail heads clean. As long as I don't go through a period of inactivity, this does enough to keep my Digitrax DCC system operating just fine.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
BRAKIE richhotrain I don't know what else to say. The plastic wheels seemed to be a source of black gunk and, after removing all of the plastic wheels, the problem went away and I no longer had to clean track. Rich Rich,MR had a excellent article on what that gunk is on our track..It was a mixture of things including human skin flakes,dandruff,pet dandruff,inspect droppings,electrical residue,plastic,oil and other microscopic nasties.
richhotrain I don't know what else to say. The plastic wheels seemed to be a source of black gunk and, after removing all of the plastic wheels, the problem went away and I no longer had to clean track. Rich
Rich,MR had a excellent article on what that gunk is on our track..It was a mixture of things including human skin flakes,dandruff,pet dandruff,inspect droppings,electrical residue,plastic,oil and other microscopic nasties.
I only know that once I replaced all of the plastic wheels on my rolling stock and removed all of the black gunk from the rails and from the metal wheels on my locos, the problem went away, never to return.
Alton Junction
BRAKIE I have often wondered if there is to much hype over cleaning track?
I have often wondered if there is to much hype over cleaning track?
richhotrainI don't know what else to say. The plastic wheels seemed to be a source of black gunk and, after removing all of the plastic wheels, the problem went away and I no longer had to clean track. Rich
The extreme.
Now then..The club layout can sit for weeks or even months without seeing a train run..When a member runs a train without cleaning track his train runs just fine.
The club is in a older block building that has several cracks in the wall and along the bottom of the wall so,its not air tight which means it can be damp,warm or cold..
For the record both plastic and metal wheels are used and the layout is DC.
I don't know.
Like Rich, I don't have to clean track except after ballasting, and the majority of my rolling stock has plastic wheels. I do vacuum the track once in a while (perhaps every 4 or 5 years) when also doing general layout cleaning. My layout room is also in the basement (unheated, but well insulated) and has been in operation (strictly DC) for about 20 years.The last time I had to regularly clean track, it was brass rail on fibre ties.
Wayne
richhotrain Let me clarify something. I wasn't suggesting that metal wheels don't get dirty. What I was saying is that my track rails got dirty quite often when I had plastic wheels on my rolling stock. And, then, the metal wheels on my locos picked up black gunk off the rails. When I swapped out the plastic wheels on my rolling stock and replaced them with metal wheels, this all stopped. My conclusion was that the plastic wheels were the cause of the problem. Rich
We must live in two different worlds! ;-)
When I began my current large layout - track cleaning was a nightmare!
Most all my cars were from previous layouts and many were converted Tyco (of all things) AHM and the like.
All had PLASTIC wheels.
So one would think that this would be contributing to the Dirty Track thing I was experiencing at the time!
As I have stated many times - in 2003 I Metal Polished the track and just ran the trains each OPs Session and not having to clean the track any more was Great!
BUT! I still had all of those PLASTIC Wheels!
Where was the DIRT - It wan't causing problems with my engines because of the Metal Polish
As THAT was the ONLY Change I had made - Polished the Track!
I wasn't using any Drags or wiping the track (as so many others state they do -which is really removing the Polish - BTW)!
So from what I have been lead to believe the PLASTIC Wheels should have been causing the track to become dirty again!
IT WASN'T!
I had NOT ever cleaned the track for over 5 years! No Wiping or anything else - Just turn on the layout for my Thursday Night OPs Session and away we went!
Then I had to replace the rear cement block wall in the Basement as it was caving in and at the same time I also added a room onto the back of the house.
I had plastic hanging down to shield the Layout from the cement dust - BUT it didn't work!
The entier Layout was covered with cememt dust - I was sick!
I spent a MONTH cleaning off the Layout, Buildings and what little scenery I had in at the time!
I was worried that the layout would never run as good as it had. This was in 2008/2009.
My crew spent about 3 months of agony in helping me clean the layout and all we did was vaccum the track with the brush end on the hose - time and time again!
When we did begin running the engine wheels got dirty pretty fast! We just kept cleaning them and running - the only way I knew to clean the track!
I wiped down the track with cork on sticks and that was about it!
By the start of 2010 the layout was again running well and not having to clean the engines wheels as much (like every 10 minutes of running).
The cars with the PLASTIC wheels remained fairly clean throug all of this - which was surprising!
As i added more cars - they wer now coming with Metal Wheels.
So in 2011 I began replacing the PLASTIC Wheels with METAL as EVERYONE on the Forums and the Media was stating that the METAL Wheels would stay cleaner longer!
OK!?
So that is what I have been doing and just finished up doing the last of over 1200 cars!
In the process of checking the cars - I was finding time and time again that the Metal Wheeled cars were dirty more so than the older PLASTIC Wheeled car was, that had been through the Cement Dust!
WHY?
So now that I hve all of the cars converted - there is NO Plastic Wheels to cause the Dirt as has been reported here many time!
We shall see as I continually do my car inspections (again to maintain my ZERO Maintenance Layout) and I will report back when the next Track Cleaning Thread gets Started! (which should only be another week or so)! ;-)
BRAKIE richhotrain Before changing over from plastic wheeled rolling stock some years ago, I was constantly cleaning track. Rich From time to time I found the need to clean metal freight wheels just like locomotives wheels. What I like about metal wheels is they put some extra weight on the railhead.
richhotrain Before changing over from plastic wheeled rolling stock some years ago, I was constantly cleaning track. Rich
From time to time I found the need to clean metal freight wheels just like locomotives wheels.
What I like about metal wheels is they put some extra weight on the railhead.
I am beginning to suspect that Metal Wheels are less prone to getting dirty is a Myth!
Of my 1200 cars on the layout - I usually ship 50 different cars to the Office part of the Layout during normal Operations!
I also bring any Bad Order cars into the Office for rework too!
The next day I do a 30 day inspection (this is how one has a ZERO MAINTENANCE LAYOUT) in which I go over the car
Checking
Coupler height
Missing Details
Wheels needing Cleaned!
It takes the cars a number of years to make the rounds and back into the Office part of the Layout for reinspections
I have some metal wheeled cars that have the complete wheel covered with dirt to the point of almost having NO Flange left!
If I were to believe those here and other Forums I belong to -
I would NOT be having this problem as Metal Wheels do not pick up dirt - or so I have been lead to believe.
While I have finally converten my fleet to all metal wheels now - I will be watching how quickly they continue to gather dirt!
Although - this may be WHY I don't have to clean the track
As the Metal wheels are picking up the dirt instead of it being deposited on the rails!
If this is the case - then I am all for it - as I would much rather clean a few Metal Wheels every 30 days instead of 4000 feet of track before each OPs Session.
luvadj richhotrain I have operated in DCC for 10 years, and I never clean my track except after gluing down ballast. Rich Rich, that's great!.....but I'm curious; where is your layout located?, basement?, attic?, climate controlled room? All these things make a difference in frequency of track cleaning
richhotrain I have operated in DCC for 10 years, and I never clean my track except after gluing down ballast. Rich
I have operated in DCC for 10 years, and I never clean my track except after gluing down ballast.
We have had this conversation before on this forum. Some of us report that we rarely, if ever, have to clean our track. I do have metal wheels on all of my rolling stock and that really helps. Before changing over from plastic wheeled rolling stock some years ago, I was constantly cleaning track.
Getting ready to go in the layout room, to run Trains:
Take Care!
Frank
Bob Berger, C.O.O. N-ovation & Northwestern R.R. My patio layout....SEE IT HERE
There's no place like ~/ ;)
Well, I appreceiate all the comments and I did try the cork idea and it works very well. I think that the gleaning and a wipe down of the rails is the easiest way to go,
I still think that I clean the rails more since I started using DCC....
I just bought a bottle of Mothers Mag polish yesterday at Wally World for like $5. I am going to try it.
Joe Staten Island West
My HO DCC locos can hiccup easily when the track is not quite clean. I gleamed it, including last step of metal polishing (used Simichrome, in bike shops and elsewhere). The fact that I'm not getting as good performance as some may be how perfectly I did the burnishing with a SS washer step of gleaming, who knows. Anyway, I run a masonite pad John Allen car around with a typical train, not usually getting into the yards. Eventually I learned to clean the pad fairly often to minimize moving dirt around. About each two months, I clean all the track with that car plus a CMX car (pricey but teriffic) using denatured alcohol (I need to try the lacquer thinner most prefer) and also clean the loco wheels by running high revs over an alcohol wet piece of paper towel. I put metal wheelsets on my freight cars, which is mostly what I run.
I did have one loco that was the only one hicupping in one area of the layout and suspected the loco / trackwork interaction was causing a short to create a hiccup. But then after the full cleaning (track & locos) it has gone throught that area without a problem.
I would note that the Simichrome polish is great at polishing; e.g., bike aluminum. I note some are polishing with car polishes and wonder if these don't usually (if an all in one polish) include some wax that is left on the rails even when buffed (e.g., in the microflaws that remain). That might inhibit oxidation there that the Simichrome may not affect as much, as I suspect it only removes oxidation but does not leave a waxy residue. Maybe a finer point but maybe significant.
Anyway, I have not arrived at perfection
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
dbduck do you recommend any particular brand of Metal Polish over another?
do you recommend any particular brand of Metal Polish over another?
Don't know if you were referring to me or not
But
I have used Blue Magic and Mothers Mag Wheel Polish!
Any type of Metal Polish will work - it isn't any thing special
It just needs to clean and polish metal!
Although I did find that Brasso leaves an oily film - so that is one I recomend NOT using!
Now - you will find that the rails will never be completely clean as it will always leave a black streak if you wipe the rails!
This is OK! - as the Nickel Silver track tarnishes it will leave this black material when you wipe the rails.
It is electrically conductove - so that is a good thing!
luvadjDo you find you clean more or less with DCC as compared to DC and what are your ways of cutting down on the oxidation and keeping your rails clean?
the July 2014 Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine had a pretty comprehensive article on track cleaning in general.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
While I don't want to rain on the Parade
I have just completed the change over of my fleet (all 1200 cars) to Metal wheels
So this story about the METAL wheels NOT picking up dirt is another possible MRR Urban Myth!
I was finding that my METAL Wheels were getting just as dirty as the old plastic ones were!
3/4 of my fleet of cars were already Metal Wheels.
Now that the Layout is all Metal wheels - I will be watching how fast the wheels get dirty!
I run a random quanity of cars to the one end of the layout each OPs Session and then perform a 30 day inspection.
This includes checking the Coupler Heght and any broken or missing details
It ALSO includes Looking at how dirty the wheels are and cleaning them as needed.
The info on each car is then entered into my Inventory/Maintenance Data Base to track the cars.
So it is really easy to see problems with cars over time!
I run DC, and lots of freight cars with plastic wheels. I clean track after ballasting and then occasionally vacuum it, perhaps every four or five years. That's about it.
I gleamed my track six years ago and have had good results, However I found that having a masonite pad under a boxcar on almost every train I run picks up the oxidation that occurs. I file the pads every now and then to remove the black streaks. Some of my four axle F units perform poorly unless I use the pads. Other than filing the pads, I just run trains. My layout is located in a metal garage attached to my manufactured home, in central Florida. In the summer it has air, in the winter. no climate control.
First allow me to say I use a MRC Tech 6 which is DC/DCC by a push of a button.Now you know.
Now then..I found in the DC mode I clean my track as needed with either a bright boy or 91% alcohol.When I am running my DCC locomotives about every other day..
On the other hand when running my DCC/Sound locomotives I must clean track before each operation sesson if not these engines will stall.
I used to before I began using Metal Polish!
This was back in 2003
My layout was always DCC from the start but found myself having to clean the track (using tradational drags & cleaning cars) every 2 weeks in getting ready for an OPs Session!
This was beginning to get real old!
Read in MR Mag about using Metal Polish on the tracks - didn't really think it would work but I was desperate!
Tried it on a small area and the train ran great - left that area go for 2 month of Operations
STILL everything ran great.
We stopped the OPs Session that night and the Crew helped me do all 2000 feet of track!
It is now over 10 years later and I STILL have NOT had to clean the track! We STILL run every 2 weeks!
I don't use any Drags as some on her do once they have polished the track NOTHING!
I just go down and turn on the layout and begin an OPs Session!
The Layout now has over 4000 feet of track - So trying the OLD Ways of cleaning would take Days!
My layout is in a unheated basement - but it is finished & has a drop ceiling!
DCC is more sensitive to dirty track and dirty wheels than DC. The general concensus on the forums about cleaning track seems to be divided between the CMX Clean Machine filled with lacquer thinner and a process called Gleaming as the best methods, but there are cheaper and quicker ways to do it depending on how large a layout you have.
For a smallish layout with no tunnels or hidden track, a track cleaning block may be sufficient. A piece of cork roadbed and rubbing alcohol may be all you need.