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Let"s Talk About Proto Cracked Gears Again

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Let"s Talk About Proto Cracked Gears Again
Posted by ss122 on Sunday, June 22, 2014 8:42 AM

I know this has been discussed before, but I tried using the search feature but only got irrelevant answers. My question simply is what NWSL product do I use, and how do I install it? Any tricks to disassembly of the trucks? Directions to the previous discussion would be appreciated as well. When I searched "Proto Cracked Gears" I got mostly new product reviews but no specific instructions. Thank you.

Tags: Cracked , gears , Proto
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Sunday, June 22, 2014 8:51 AM

I always used axle gears from Athearn F7's and GP9's as replacements.

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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, June 22, 2014 8:56 AM

SS122,

Watch this You Tube Video. Should you have more questions....feel free to post more questions. Easier for You to watch, than explain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6rICPsxQbY

Take Care!

Frank

EDIT: It was kind of others to give the part #...but tells you that, in the Video. So I didn't mention it. Big Smile

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Sunday, June 22, 2014 8:56 AM

The current part number for the appropriate Athearn gears that work as replacements for older Proto 2000 diesels is 60024, listed as being for the Athearn SD40-2.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, June 22, 2014 9:01 AM

Athearn Part Number ATH60024.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by charlie9 on Sunday, June 22, 2014 9:05 AM

If you only have one bad gear and no replacment parts available.  Just snip the gear teeth off and put it back together.  Kind of like we did on the real railroad when we had to cut out a traction motor on a unit. 

Charlie

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Posted by ss122 on Sunday, June 22, 2014 9:47 AM

Wow, that was fast. Thank you all. The video answered my next series of questions about installation. The video also makes me wonder, if a picture is worth a thousand words, what would Confucius have said about YouTube?

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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, June 22, 2014 9:54 AM

SS122,

Maybe..He would have to change His name to Infucius,,,Yah' tink'?  Laugh

Take Care!

Frank

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Sunday, June 22, 2014 9:57 AM

Nothing wrong with bringing up this topic.

The video was excellent.

I hope you don't mind these additional tips.

1. If you have a "fleet" of locomotives with this style gear (like I do), buy several packs of the Athearn replacement gears as recommended in the above posts. They're still inexpensive and Athearn keeps them in stock. 

2.  If you have 2 or 3 gears that are cracked, play it safe and replace the entire set. This often happens when locomotives sit on your shelf without running for months (or years) at a time OR if you purchased the locomotives "New-In-the-Box" that are a few years old and have never been run or may have been test run once.  The plastic tends to dry rot.  In these cases, thorouglhy clean and relube your trucks and motor.  In the older run units, go ahead and "hard wire" your electrical pickup wires and get rid of the cheap contacts.

With new gears and a freshly lubed drive train, your units should rack up thousands of "scale miles" with no issues.

 

High Greens Big Smile

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:05 AM

Antonio45,

Good Points. Yes That is one of the few Videos' that I have seen...that actually show and talk about lubing the motor shaft bearings/bushings.

Take Care! Big Smile

Fraank

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:23 AM

zstripe

EDIT: It was kind of others to give the part #...but tells you that, in the Video. So I didn't mention it. Big Smile

 

It is always good to remember that once Frank replies to a thread, nothing more needs to be said.  Laugh

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:31 AM

We try to cover....our backside. Smile, Wink & Grin

You never know......where evils lurk. Lightning

Take Care! Bow

Frank

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Posted by cmrproducts on Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:39 AM

A-Line makes the Proto/Athearn Gears also

Part number from Walthers - 116-40005

So any Hobby Shop should have them

At least our Local one has them in stock!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

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Posted by peahrens on Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:42 AM

Here is one thread about my experience with a P2K E6.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/228314.aspx

As noted there-in I was told by Walthers tech guy that the early DCC/sound 6-axle units simply did not have the cracked gear problem that the 4 axles did.  For whatever reason, mine did (4 of 6 cracked gears).  The commonly mentioned Athearn gear replacement did not work right (noisy; different number of teeth).  My inquiry to NWSL on this was not helpful for my case as they offerred a gear with the wrong number of teeth.  When I worked the issue again with Walthers (since I verified cracked gears) I bought two front trucks (rear were not available for my E6) to get new condition (hopefully) wheelsets with correct gearing.  Not listed on their site, but the tech guys can tell you what they have in inventory and then order by phone.  Only about $10 per truck.  That did the trick (so far). Not a perfect solution, as these too could crack in time. 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:52 AM

Paul,

I'm curious. Do you know the number of teeth the axle gear should have for that engine. Wondering what the gear ratio is. How much differance it would make to change the idler gear, along with the axle gear.

Take Care!

Frank

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Posted by jrbernier on Sunday, June 22, 2014 1:04 PM

 The 4 axle Life-Like P2K engines had a 12:1 gear ratio.  The current Walthers P2K engines are now using a standard 14:1 gear ratio. This is one of the nice things that Walthers has done to the line. Back in the old Life-Like era, each new locomove had 'Gear Ratio of the Month Club'...

  There really is no reason to change the idler gears.  They do not press-fit on the axles and break.  If you want to change the idler, just tear down the entire truck assembly.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by thomas81z on Sunday, June 22, 2014 2:13 PM
Good advice, I have a 4-6-2 with the dreaded cracked gear syndrome
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Posted by peahrens on Sunday, June 22, 2014 8:29 PM

The E6 I have came with 11 tooth axle gears, versus the 12 tooth Athearn part cited.  This presumes I counted right...I got the same count more than once but each tooth looks alike, so...

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by jrbernier on Sunday, June 22, 2014 9:20 PM

  Back in the Life-Like era, the BL2 and most of the EMD GP series had the 12:1 gear ratio.  The E units had a different one(as you discovered), and the U-Boats had a strange 'compound' gear ratio(worked out something like 23.4 to 1) - Strange!

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, June 23, 2014 11:10 PM

Paul:

Thanks for the 'heads up' on the P2K E6 gears. I have a couple of them with no gear problems so far, but if they do crack you just saved me from messing up the repair with the wrong gears.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by peahrens on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:42 PM

hon30critter
Thanks for the 'heads up' on the P2K E6 gears. I have a couple of them with no gear problems so far, but if they do crack you just saved me from messing up the repair with the wrong gears

As others may have noted elsewhere, sometimes a cracked gear is not obvious except for noisy symptoms but hard to see when examining the wheelsets.  I could see the cracks with an Optivisor only when I hand torqued the wheels in opposite directions.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by kbkchooch on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:48 PM

Usually if yiu can hold 1 wheel still, and 1 turns easily, there is a crack. Both axles should be snug in the center gear.

As a preventive measure, as soon as I get a Proto 4 axle, I install new gears regardless of current performance.

 

Karl

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Posted by cmrproducts on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:49 PM

peahrens
 

As others may have noted elsewhere, sometimes a cracked gear is not obvious except for noisy symptoms but hard to see when examining the wheelsets.  I could see the cracks with an Optivisor only when I hand torqued the wheels in opposite directions.

 

 
It seems to be easy enough to hear the cracked gears as they usually make a clunking noise (at least for me they do).
 
To find which axle set is the problem - I just turn the engine over and try to turn the wheels.
 
If the gear is good then the wheels WON'T TURN!
 
If they are BAD - then one of the wheels will slip easily.
 
This then is obviously the bad wheel set.
 
Replace as necessary!
 
We do this test when ever we get any engines in for DCC Decoder work!
 
BOB H - Clarion, PA
 
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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:50 PM

kbkchooch

Usually if yiu can hold 1 wheel still, and 1 turns easily, there is a crack. Both axles should be snug in the center gear.

 

Yep.

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by cacole on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:36 PM

After Walthers bought the LifeLike product line they have changed to helical gears on the axles, so the Athearn gears that fit the older Proto models will not fit the newer products.

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:46 PM

True, but the Walthers Proto line doesn't exhibit those cracked gears, or does it?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by cacole on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:52 PM

richhotrain

True, but the Walthers Proto line doesn't exhibit those cracked gears, or does it?

Rich

 
Not as common as with the old LifeLike products, but one club member has had to get new gears from Walthers.  You have to buy a complete axle and wheel assembly.
 
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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 7:16 PM

cacole

 

 
richhotrain

True, but the Walthers Proto line doesn't exhibit those cracked gears, or does it?

Rich

 

 

 
Not as common as with the old LifeLike products, but one club member has had to get new gears from Walthers.  You have to buy a complete axle and wheel assembly.
 
 

Wow, that's a bummer.

Alton Junction

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Posted by Ron High on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:23 PM

In addition to the old Proto units known to have the problem,I have 6 Athearn RS3s 5 NH and 1 B&M from eary runs of the updated MDC RS3.  Out of 24 axles I had 20 cracked gears. I replaced all of the gears. I used some of the gear oil on the axle gears. On the bearings I used CRC 2-26 a plastic compatible lubricant that also enhances electrical conductivity. I used a drop on the commutator also .That helped with running and quieted things down. I oiled motor bearings Every thing works fine now.

The new Athearn RS3 Red Orange cab and Black hoods McGinnis paint scheme that came out last December look as though there has been a change .The gear box cover plate is hollowed out on the inside of the plate. Where it covers the gears it look like it is intended to give more clearance. I am not sure why it looks like the same gears but I did not examine or count teeth. They were very generous with lubricant. Right now these engines run fine.

Ron High

 

 

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