Modelling catenary in N?

[Anonymous]

O.k., my first post here, so hope my questions aren't too stupid...

I'm starting to plan and design an n scale layout, and being a fan of the Milwaukee, Virginian and New Haven, I'd like to include catenary (although not over all the track). There seems to be quite a bit of interest here in modelling overhead, but all the posts I've seen so far have related to HO scale or larger. So, I was wondering if anyone has any experience or advice for modelling catenary in N?

One thing I'm particularly interested in is how close it's possible to get to scale diameters for the messenger and trolley wires - I'm not bothered about drawing power from the wire. There's obviously a compromise between construction/strength and appearance here, but examples I've seen so far (NCat and Sommerfeldt), whilst impressive, seem rather coarse. I've seen articles about HO catenary using 0.015" piano wire for the messenger/trolley, but would it be possible to use finer 0.01" or even 0.008"(!) wire in n scale? Or am I being too optimistic here?!!! Something that's never been clear to me from reading articles on model catenary is how much tension the trolley wire has to be under as this would influence how small the wires and associated support structures can be made.

As you may guess from my favorite prototypes, I'm edging towards an eastern themed proto-freelance layout. However, apart from the superb New Haven layout in the August MR, I haven't seen modelled examples of the eastern AC catenaries (which I think were based on designs by Westinghouse rather than GE?) - are there any other examples out there?

Sorry for the length of the post, but there's lot's to think about with catenary!

Ben.

[NHRRJET]

Ben:
First off, I'd like to thank you for your compliment on my NH layout which appeared in the August MR.
Obtaining scale diameter wire in HO was a project in itself. For N-Scale, you might want to try something around 26 gauge, this too might be large. I think you will probably have to experiment with various diameters until you find something satisfactory.
As far as the catenary itself, you will find the wire is quite similar on the VGN,PRR and GN. The NH's system was totally unique.

[DSchmitt]

There are modelers using live overhead to power their model electric locos, street cars, etc. NCAT http://www.teamsavage.com/ncat/ncat.html is an organization devoted to this. Most , such as Hal Reigger, who developed most of the techniques, use single wire instead of trying to model catenary. Unfortunally Hal is in very poor health and not active in the hobby anymore.

About 30 years ago I met a modeler who was building working catenary. He displayed a 6 or 8 foot section at a train show. It worked and looked pretty good but was obviously a lot of effort to build.

I don't remember actually seeing any other catenary in N scale either working or non working.

Sommerfeldt makes a working N scale system (European prototype). Here is one site that sells the line: http://www.eurorailhobbies.com/erh/eurorailhobbieslist.asp?mn=24&sc=N&ca=32

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies!

NHRRJET: I looked up 26 gauge and it's about 0.016" diameter - so as you say might be a bit large, but it would seem to be a good starting point. Interesting about the NH catenary - I've seen pictures of the early triangular double messenger/trolley, but had thought the rest was similar to the VGN and PRR. The one 'look' it would be nice to capture, which I think NH shared with the VGN and PRR and I saw in the pictures of your layout, is the inclined messenger wire on curves where it's canted to the outside of the curve. How difficult did you find this to construct?

DSchmitt: Thanks for the links - I'd seen the NCat site before, but sorry to hear about Hal Reigger. I'd hadn't seen the Sommerfeldt stockist though, so I'll take a look!

[NHRRJET]

Inclining the messenger wire on the curves was by no means an easy undertaking; but the effort is worth it if it comes out right. It took 4 hours in one location to string 3' of wire. The uniformity of the arc in the messenger must be maintained along with keeping the trolley at a uniform height or the whole effect is lost. Living 15mins from the catenary in Bridgeport,CT gave me an excellent opportunity to photograph it .