Today I again checked with the Walthers tech person, telling him the story. He again said the cracked gear problem was seen in the 4-axle units but not the 6-axle. He was surprised to hear I had 4 of 6 gears cracked. While it's not impossible that someone tinkered with it (I think it was unused when I bought it at a show from a vendor) the issue is at least there for my unit. I speculated that extreme storage temps it might have encountered could push the weakness issue over the edge, but I'm just theorizing.
In terms of how I should approach this, he said the Athearn 12 tooth gears would not work, not because of top speed impact but because they would not mesh properly. The rear truck (#584304) is not available at Walthers nor EBay. He suggested simply buying another front truck to steal the axles for the back. I bought two ($9 each) today and am glad they still have them.
If in the long run these "correct" ones continue to crack, I'll give the Athearn 12 tooth gears a try. Or even try epoxying cracked gears to the 1/2 axles, making sure to get the gauge exact.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Glad you figured out the problems, and got past the "fears" of tearing into the drive. It's rather unusual that the "cracked" gear plague has turned up on a 6 axle unit. All my 4 axle "B" truck P2K's have been changed out. No issues w/ any SD7s or E units so far. Maybe it may be problems lurking, for these 6 axle ones.
If you are having problems w/ finding that "origional" 11 tooth replacement, order another complete truck assy for the rear. The 11 tooth must still carry over the 18:1 gear ratio from origion units. I'm not sure or would recommend using the 12 tooth as the actual gear meshing may be a problem.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Good news and bad. First the good news. Being encouraged, I went through with front truck replacement and (thanks to the advice) was able to loosen the weight (screws under the speakers), unclip the worm gear cover, stretch enough wire slack to desolder the old truck and reverse the process. I had to also replace the back truck axle gears with 3 of the original 6 P2K 11 tooth gears as the Athearns (#60024) I had substituted are 12 tooth. It first derailed when run (back truck) but at least one of the square axle blocks was not in the right place (they sure can move side to side alot). Anyway, it runs fine but when I was re-checking the back truck I found one axle could turn pretty easily so I took a close look at all 6 original P2K axle gears. You'll never guess (of course you already have)...at least 4 of 6 are cracked. Some questionable line type flaws along the axle dimension showed (with an Optivisor) a crack when pried slightly from inside the axle hole. I have the best one (wheels can be turned too easily) on the back truck temporarily. So the good news is I succeeded with the disassembly / assembly and I learned alot. Plus it's not (currently) noisy. I'll add photos at the bottom for anyone interested as I was in how these things come apart.
The bad news is I've got the cracked gear issue so I'm not done. When I checked with Walthers last year the tech fellow said the cracked gear issue was unique to the Lifelike P2K 4-axle diesels, not the 6-axle ones. Since the front truck was noisy and they had the part (#584303) I acquired it as the solution. Well, apparently the issue is there for at least my 6-axle. Replacement gears are not available from Walthers to my knowledge.
I inquired of NWSL last year (described the model and measurement on the 11-tooth axle gear) and they replied that they had a 12-tooth gear available ($60 for 6). So I'm unsure what to try next. Remember the front truck made noise with the 12-tooth Athearn gears substituted earlier. It's possible that the front truck had a noise not associated with the axle gears (original P2K and the 12-tooth Athearns). So maybe the new front truck and the rear can handle the 12-tooth (vs 11 tooth P2K) axle gears w/o being noisy. And of course, is there any reason to think the NWSL gears would work if the Athearn don't? Advice is most welcome. My email to them follows:> Scale (HO, O, etc.) : HO> Company (Athearn, Bachmann, PSC, etc.) : Proto2000 Walthers L-L> Loco Builder (if known, brass locomotives only) : Walthers Lifelike> Loco Type (SD-40, 1-8-2 steam, etc.) : E6 P2K Walthers Lifelike> Which gear (axle gear, idler gear, etc.) : Axle> Gear OUTSIDE DIAMETER (tooth tip to tooth tip) (inches or mm) : 0.254"> Gear INSIDE DIAMETER (bore hole or shaft size) (inches or mm) : 0.094" axle> Gear WIDTH (inches or mm) : 0.116" > How many teeth does it have (count twice!) : 11> Are teeth (straight | | |), (slanted left \\\), or (slanted right ///) : straight> What material is the gear (brass, plastic, etc.) : plastic> Comments : noisy front truck, so I tried the Athearn #60024 gears, but initially noisier. they are 12 tooth plus 0.271" outside tooth diameter. do you have a better replacement for the E-6 gray box P2K Walthers LifeLike?
http://shop.osorail.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=2193-6
And here are some photos. Sorry if all this is too long!
You really should replace that entire truck assy. Start off "fresh" w/ a completly new truck. Since you had issues w/ that old one, I would not try to start to replacing pieces and end up w/ the possibility of continued troubles. You may be able to partially disassemble, remove wires loosen parts that will allow enough access to lift the weight enough to drop the front truck and the p/u wiring. Take a few pics and make some notes as you go to aid in reassembly if needed.
All my 6 axle P2Ks (SD's and E's) are non sound, so I'm not sure exactly to what extend of disassembly you will need to accomplish the task.
Note: many times the weight, even w/ all screws removed, will need a bit of a pry to lift off the locating nubs of the frame.
The motor brush assembly (part #11) snaps onto the motor and is attached securely enough that removing the weight will have no effect on it. Just take it slow and diagram things as you disassemble the loco. Once you've done it you'll be surprised how easy it is. I would also second Cacole's recommendation to solder the pickup wires.
Joe
It looks to me like the speakers and circuit board need to be removed to access the screws (can't see them yet) that hold the weight to the chassis. I'm most nervous about how to take things apart without messing up the motor contact springs (parts 11), etc., so any guidance on how to take that apart and successfully put back together would be helpful. UPDATE: I loosened one speaker and see the weight to chassis screws. So my hesitancy for the full bore approach is understanding the parts 11 springs stuff.
Looking from below, the worm gear sure appears to be dry, and could be lubed from below. I'm considering (vs. dismantling) just lubing it, putting the geared axles from the new truck on the front old truck, and changing the rear axle gears back to the P2K originals, since the Athearn gears are wrong for this (off by one tooth).
If I can get comfortable with the issues about dismantling, it would of course be useful to enhance my learning and confidence for loco maintenance in general.
Thanks for the help!
If the setup is like that of the older P2K E6 you'll likely have to remove the weight to make access to the truck tower easier. Even for the there are wires that have to be removed. When the truck is dropped out it will be suspended by the two pickup wires.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Part 14 on that diagram is the worm gear cover that snaps in place. It can be removed by prying outward on the bottom edge with a small flat-bladed screwdriver, being careful that it doesn't fly away when it is released. After removing the worm gear and drive shaft, the truck should then drop out of the frame, but there may be wires connected to the side pickup wipers by plastic slip-on clips. Solder those connections when you reassemble the truck for more reliable operation.
Paul:
From your diagram it looks like the trucks are similar to Athearn trucks. Part #14 is the worm gear cover and has to be snapped off to free the truck. I don't know if you can access it without removing the weight, etc. It looks like the weight doesn't cover the gear towers so you may be OK. I've not worked on this particular model.
I have a Lifelike Proto 2000 DCC/sound E6 A (Item 31211) that I got at a show a year or so ago. It had a noisy front truck. I tried the Athearn replacement gears but they had one tooth more or less than the originals. The Walthers tech fellow advised that they had a front truck part for these and I had it sent and am just getting to the project.
The front truck has black instead of gray sideframes but I've figured out how to swap them from the old to the new. I have the axles out and now need to remove the truck, but how? A diagram is below. I can't tell whether there's a way to remove the truck from the bottom (does it just clip in and need to be pulled / pried loose?) or whether everything atop (electronics, speakers, weights, etc) all have to come off to access a screw or something holding the truck in place. I don't want to proceed without advice.
Any help most appreciated!