I am not sure if I have ever soldered before in my life. If I have, it was so long ago I can't remember. (But anymore, that could be things that happened last week.) Today I learned a couple of hard lessons about soldering track.
Also, I think I may need different solder. I bought some "lead-free" solder at the hardware store and it doesn't seem to flow like I see in the videos. (Then again, it could be just me.) Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Richard
Make sure your solder is rosin core. It's best for electrical/electronics in my opinion. Avoid the 'plumbing' solder sold in hardware stores. It has an acid core and will corrode your track, locos and most anything else you use it on. Use a bit of rosin core paste flux. Yes the solder has some in it but it's not enough. Brushing a little flux on the area to be soldered helps the solder flow better. I put some flux in the rail joiners before the track is put together. When I solder the joint the solder follows the flux into the joint and welds it together.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Good news is it is electrical, rosin core solder. I dabbed the area with liquid flux, and have the iron set at 675F. (According to the directions, it should be hot enough.) I think it is just a case of needing more practice. I am going to cut up a piece of flex track and practice soldering it together. Hopefully practice will make perfect.
One question, though. What is the difference between lead-free and 60/40 solder and is one better than the other? Okay, that's really two questions.
Richard,
If you are creating blobs of solder, you are using too much solder, too little flux and/or not enough heat. A proper solder joint should be smooth with the solder only coating the base metal. Applying rosin flux prior to adding the heat and a little solder should make the solder flow out nicely and add a smooth and shiny (like a mirror) coating to the rail joint. If the joint is a dull gray, you did not apply enough heat or you moved the joint before it cooled adequately. When you finally achieve smooth shiny coatings of solder on all your solder joints, you can then claim to know how to solder. As for soldering on the inside rail, the correct smooth coating of solder will not effect the train wheels. You can also clean up solder joints with a file if you find you can't avoid creating blobs of solder.
In addition to purchasing electronics quality rosin paste flux, it is a good idea to match the size of the solder to the size of the job. One-eight inch diameter solder from the hardware store is WAY too large for model railroad work. Rosin core lead solder of around 1/32" diameter would be far better suited to most electronics work. As long as you don't chew on it, lead solder is not going to kill you (unless you don't remember chewing on it, of course).
Hornblower
Check out this thread, I found it very helpful in improving my soldering skills, especially Modelmaker51's advice.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/176434.aspx?PageIndex=3&page=2
regards, Peter
The 60/40 LEAD solder is better. Much better for electronics work, and real electricians avoid the lead free like the plague, unless of course their manufacturing must meet lead free standards for political reasons.
Lead free is a lefitist-socialist-politacal ploy to rule the world. They have no place on *my* railroad!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
RideOnRoad Good news is it is electrical, rosin core solder. I dabbed the area with liquid flux, and have the iron set at 675F. (According to the directions, it should be hot enough.) I think it is just a case of needing more practice. I am going to cut up a piece of flex track and practice soldering it together. Hopefully practice will make perfect. One question, though. What is the difference between lead-free and 60/40 solder and is one better than the other? Okay, that's really two questions.
"Lead Free" solder was invented to calm down the anti lead greenies. It may make them happy, but it is not dependable for making solder joints. I have no confidence in it. 60/40 Tin lead solder is the only kind I use for modeling or electrical work. That's the lowest melting point alloy, and the one that goes from liquid to solid the fastest.
The secret of good solder joints in a nutshell.
1. Clean the surfaces to be soldered til they gleam. A wire brush in a Dremel is good for cleaning rail, and other stuff.
2. Use rosin flux. Even if the solder has a rosin core, use flux.
3. Heat the work until it is hot enough to melt the solder. You cannot drop hot molten solder onto cold work and expect anything good to happen.
4. Keep the tip of the soldering iron (or gun) tinned, covered in molten solder.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Actually, 63-37 is the lowest melting solder at 530 degrees. At 520 degrees, it is a solid again. 63-37 is also known as Utetic solder and it has no paste state. It is either a liquid or a solid.
For normal work, 60-40 is good, and the iron temperature should be 700 degrees for the best work.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Been using 60/40 rosin core solder for about 50yrs, PC boards, all my Electrical solder jobs, no problem's, 60 lead/40 tin, for all. I use 1/16 dia. Kester great brand and so is Oatey.
Have Fun and practice makes perfect, solder joint and don't move it, till set.
Frank
Seconding what Jeff and Lion said. Both bang-on.
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
Right on Lion ! I like that ROAR !
Mike
My You Tube
Greybeard....People in industries where they were in constant fumes and dying or becoming permanently disabled did. Lead poisoning is real, and deadly....
That's certainly true, but soldering doesn't create such conditions, as lead melts at about 620°F, but doesn't vaporise until about 3180°F. I suspect at least as many were subject to ingestion of lead dust as to the vapours.I worked in a steel mill where we occasionally rolled billets with a high lead content, and all personnel on the mill floor were required to wear two-stage respirators while that operation was in progress. The rolling temperature for steel, depending on the grade, is about 2350°F.I occasionally buy sheet lead for making weights for rolling stock, and while talking to employees at a small factory where they make decorative items from lead (mostly large ornamental flower pots on the last day I was there), I learned that the Ontario Ministry of Labour does not require breathing protection for such an operation.I do agree, though, that there's a lot of knee-jerk reaction to issues such as lead, where the solution is to ban potentially dangerous items rather than educate the public on its proper use and handling. Lead-bearing solder is very difficult to locate in this part of the province, and no suitable substitute is available.
Wayne
For as much soldering as I have done, I should be a pro and be able to give expert lectures. Soldering and I just don't get along. I follow the guidelines; clean, enough heat, flux...Oh, the joints hold well enough. But there are things we become proficient at better than others. If that's a cop out, well, I plead guilty. (three hands would be nice, four even better.) Despite this weakness, my hand laid code 70 turnouts perform flawlessly once dialed in.
It is said a craftsman never blames his tools for problems, but good quality equipment has proven to make a difference many times over.
SO! These soldering irons that indicate temperature, are they accurate? Where or what brand would be recommended? (Don't get me started on soldering guns!) I too would also like to get past my weakness, and get better at this skill that is so important in this particular hobby.
Greybeard60-40 us a good choice, and easier to find. A good paste flux a necessity.
60/40 .062" diameter rosin core solder and rosin flux is what I use. I get both from Radio Shack. All the other places in this town sell the acid core plumbers solder and flux that contains enough acid to rust a car. I pick up an 8oz roll of the rosin core solder and the flux if I need it when I'm in the same part of town as the Radio Shack store.
Southgate It is said a craftsman never blames his tools for problems, but good quality equipment has proven to make a difference many times over. SO! These soldering irons that indicate temperature, are they accurate? Where or what brand would be recommended? (Don't get me started on soldering guns!) I too would also like to get past my weakness, and get better at this skill that is so important in this particular hobby.
Those fancy soldering stations are probably accurate to 5%, perhaps 2%. They are nice, I have one, made by Weller. They are also pricey. They were invented for the electronics business, where too much soldering heat can fry semiconductors. For modeling work, the nickel silver, brass, or copper doesn't care how hot it gets. A plain, no thermostat electric iron will work fine. Trouble is, hardware stores only carry 30 watt models which isn't really enough. To go up in power, hardware stores only offer guns in the 125 watt class. I had to go on Ebay to snag a big 250 watt iron for resoldering brass locomotives.
A plain electric iron's temperature tends to soar when it is set down and left powered up. It can get hot enough to burn the tinning off the tip. Solution, get a metal soldering iron stand. The stand will take enough heat from the tip to keep it tinned. It also prevents the hot iron from making ugly scorch marks on your bench, your roadbed, whatever. I use my soldering station (about 35 Watts) for electronics, printed circuit work, wiring. It doesn't really have enough heat to solder to rail. For soldering feeder wires to rail I use an old 175 watt Weller soldering gun. And a couple of alligator clips for heat sinks to avoid melting ties.
dstarr A plain electric iron's temperature tends to soar when it is set down and left powered up. It can get hot enough to burn the tinning off the tip. Solution, get a metal soldering iron stand. The stand will take enough heat from the tip to keep it tinned. It also prevents the hot iron from making ugly scorch marks on your bench, your roadbed, whatever. I use my soldering station (about 35 Watts) for electronics, printed circuit work, wiring. It doesn't really have enough heat to solder to rail. For soldering feeder wires to rail I use an old 175 watt Weller soldering gun. And a couple of alligator clips for heat sinks to avoid melting ties.
I use two Weller Marksman irons, both admittedly old. The 40 watt does things like rail nicely, the 25 for elecronic work. I have a bigger one, but no use for the 550 watts, and it's heavy. For the tips, I keep a piece of fine steel wool on the bench, just swipe the tip over that before soldering, cleans it pretty nicely. I heat sink rail with small machinists clamps, made from aluminum, conducts heat faster.
doctorwayneI do agree, though, that there's a lot of knee-jerk reaction to issues such as lead, where the solution is to ban potentially dangerous items rather than educate the public on its proper use and handling. Lead-bearing solder is very difficult to locate in this part of the province, and no suitable substitute is available.
In the small quantities that we'll be exposed to it, it's not a concern, which is why 60-40 is still available. It's in the factories where circuit boards are assembled that it becomes a worry. It's wave soldered, which means large quantities of molten solder the boards are passed over.
A lot of things we use are safe in the levels we use them, but on an industrial basis, they become dangerous.
dstarrThe stand will take enough heat from the tip to keep it tinned. It also prevents the hot iron from making ugly scorch marks on your bench, your roadbed, whatever.
LION mounted a magnet from an old hard disk drive on the edge of his workbench, it holds the iron by the gguard near the handle in mid space with nothing near the tip.
But wait! Him got even fancier, and on the realy board that him maked he builted in a similar holster for the soldering iron, but because him did not want it to come into contact with stuff behind the board, him enclosed it in a 1" dia metal plumbing pipe! Perfect protection.
In the first case there was nothing to draw the heat from the iron, so it likely enough got too hot, and in the second case there was not even air flow to cool the iron, so it is no wonder that him burned up a tip in less than a week.
But the LION purchased a new soldering station. Him has not even brought it up to the train room yet. With the old iron, I attached a 40' power cord, and so I could walk all around the layaout with it, setting it down wherever it seemed safe and protected, assuming the LION did not step on the coard bringing it down to the floor.
Him will have to learn to be more careful with the new iron. LION has a tool cart on wheels that can roll around the trainroom floor (assuming that the floor is free from clutter) but the wheels on the cart do not turn too well. LION has new wheels, so him will FIX this cart before using the new iron. Him will make a home for it on the cart, and move the cart to wherever the tools and soldering iron is kneaded.
No wait, do not knead your soldering iron, that will scorch your nice soft fur.
RideOnRoadI bought some "lead-free" solder at the hardware store and it doesn't seem to flow like I see in the videos.
I do stained glass and have used both 60/40 and lead free solder. In this case the solder is solid core 1/4" dia with an acid flux (no electric to worry about corroding with glass). My soldering iron is a 100W Inland with temperature control.
The lead free solder has a much higher melting point than 60/40 and is more difficult to use. I have to use a higher temperature setting on my soldering iron and more flux. With practice, I have been able to create acceptable work with lead free, but prefer the 60/40.
For soldering on model RR, the 60/40 rosin core solder is the way to go. The higher heat needed for lead free solder means a higher possibility of damaging nearby plastic parts. I still wash my hands with a strong soap after soldering to remove any stray lead particles and I do not snack while I am soldering. Lead is one toxic heavy metal that is not expelled from the body over time.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Some try to treat soldering like a necessary evil. It must become part of model railroading.
I have been soldering since 1953. Good solder joints come from proper preparation, and practice.
I use a WLC110 solder station. I have never relied on the temp setting. I learned to use what works.
Rosin flux and plated tip soldering iron. Don't file the plated tips. Don't laugh. A few here have done that.
Fifty percent heat, fine tip for decoder, PC board wiring.
Wedge tip and seventy percent heat for track feeders and maybe ninety percent for soldering feeders to buss wires.
Cleaning the spot on the rails with a Micro Mark scratch brush is really great.
I use a Quad Eutectic solder. This solder prevents little solder balls from forming between copper traces on PC boards. Quite expensive but the best solder I have ever used over the years.I have done PC board work for some years.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Now I have more questions. Based on recommendations received from other forumites, I bought the Xytronic LF-369F. It came with a fine tip and now I am wondering if I need to buy some additional tips based on usage. Any suggestions are welcome.
This is the one that I just bought. I have not taken it up to the train room yet. I did buy and extra tip, the same as what is on it. At the rate that I used to burn the things up I would not want to be without one.
If you will be building brass models then yes you need different tips, but then you would already know that. This tip is fine for doing rails and rail joiners. It is just a thine wire to something.
I have the Xytronic 379, with the fine tip. I find that it solders rail in a hurry using only the rosin core solder with no additional flux. I have the heat set about 3/4 way and make sure the tip is clean. I touch the tip to the rail/joiner joint and immediately touch the solder to the rail at the tip and draw the solder across the joint.
RideOnRoad I am not sure if I have ever soldered before in my life. If I have, it was so long ago I can't remember. (But anymore, that could be things that happened last week.) Today I learned a couple of hard lessons about soldering track. Solder the outside edge of the track. Blobs of solder on the inside wreak havoc. Soldering irons are hot. Ask my thumb. Also, I think I may need different solder. I bought some "lead-free" solder at the hardware store and it doesn't seem to flow like I see in the videos. (Then again, it could be just me.) Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
I'm no expert on soldering but I use the rosin core solder. I have both the paste and the liquid flux. I too was having trouble soldering joints and feeder wires to track. I thought I needed a higher wattage soldering iron, so I bought a Weller soldering gun in lieu of my little 25 Watt pencil iron. I still had issues with not getting the work hot enough and melting plastic ties in the process as well. Then I discovered a video on this type of soldering on the Fast Tracks website ( believe its just fasttracks.com). The video walks you through the process - - using a little 25 Watt pencil soldering iron. I've found its not so much the heat, but the technique, as well as how you manage and care for your soldering iron. I just wired the expansion of my layout and all the connections to the track were soldered using my little 25 Watt soldering iron. Watch the video, it really works! Oh, and by the way, NO flux was used, just a little 70% isopropyl alcohol.
It wasn't me; it was the solder! What a difference the correct solder makes. I got some 60/40 solder and first tried tinning a piece of wire. It just flowed like in the videos. Next I cut and joined a couple of test pieces of flex track. With a little trepidation, I fluxed and soldered the joint. Again, just like in the videos. I downright enjoyed my soldering experience today and successfully laid my first sections of flex trax. I am a happy camper.
The right tools make any job easier.
E-L man tomThen I discovered a video on this type of soldering on the Fast Tracks website ( believe its just fasttracks.com).
I think you mean http://www.handlaidtrack.com/