riogrande5761 I didn't mean to feed Sheldon's insecurities but apparently did by accident.
Jim,First I want to apologize..I left this out of my last reply.
I think that might be a two way street for some.
Ever notice how topics on the lessor models is always but,always interrupted by those saying this or that not right,they're incorrect for blah,blah,blah etc when the topic at hand is dealing with generalities about a brand and not exactness to scale?
I wonder why that is?
On another forum I mention I collected the older Bev-Bel/Athearn,Athearn and MDC IPD short line boxcars and was immediately told my cars are either a foot to wide,incorrect boxcar style etc,etc and so on and there are correct cars available..
The reply did nothing to enhance the subject of the topic since the topic was on the subject of collecting and not fidelity to scale.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Bachmann has come a long way since it went to China. lol
A few geezers still remember the bad days for Bachmann. Iam one of them.
My HO 44 ton and 70 ton with sound are excellent runners. The steamers are quite nice now.
Just saw a good review of Bachmann products in the MRH forum
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Paul3 Sheldon,You said, "The USRA 4-8-2 is very accurate in all the paint schemes it was offered in with the exception of the Southern Pacfic version." Sorry, at least in regards to the New Haven, that's not an accurate statement. The NH got the first 10 USRA Light Mountains (3300-3309 on the NH), and Bachmann released their USRA Light Mountain in 3301. The Bachmann model is off in several ways. The running boards on both sides of the boiler are wrong in shape, size, and location. The dual air pump is in the wrong place by 5 feet or more. The air tank on the fireman's side is supposed to be in front of the air pump, not behind it. The air tank on the engineer's side is supposed to be over the rear driver and not the front driver. Then there's the tender trucks. The NH's used Commonwealth trucks instead of the Vulcan trucks on the model. The Bachmann model isn't "very accurate" in my mind.And as you know, I have a 25' x 50' layout that runs quite well (we just had an 8-man ops session last week). Am I allowed to comment? Paul A. Cutler III
Sheldon,You said, "The USRA 4-8-2 is very accurate in all the paint schemes it was offered in with the exception of the Southern Pacfic version." Sorry, at least in regards to the New Haven, that's not an accurate statement. The NH got the first 10 USRA Light Mountains (3300-3309 on the NH), and Bachmann released their USRA Light Mountain in 3301. The Bachmann model is off in several ways. The running boards on both sides of the boiler are wrong in shape, size, and location. The dual air pump is in the wrong place by 5 feet or more. The air tank on the fireman's side is supposed to be in front of the air pump, not behind it. The air tank on the engineer's side is supposed to be over the rear driver and not the front driver. Then there's the tender trucks. The NH's used Commonwealth trucks instead of the Vulcan trucks on the model. The Bachmann model isn't "very accurate" in my mind.And as you know, I have a 25' x 50' layout that runs quite well (we just had an 8-man ops session last week). Am I allowed to comment?
Paul A. Cutler III
I was refering to the USRA Heavy, admittedly I neather have nor know much about the accuracy or running qualities of the USRA light 4-8-2 from Bachmann, but I understandfrom others it is correct for the Southern Railway locos.
Once again this is why I object to generalizations by brand, they all make winners, they all make loosers. Better questions would be "I am interested in a Bachmann Spectrum C&O 4-8-2, is it an accurate and good running model?" - answer overwelmingly YES.
Similar question for the following Bachmann models:
C&O H-4 2-6-6-2 - the domes are not perfect, but other wise it is real good/real close, runs nice.
C&O/NKP/W&LE USRA 2-6-6-2 - very accurate and good running model.
C&O/NKP/PM Berkshire 2-8-4 - very well detailed for being in the regular line, could use a little weight, but weight is easily added, road specific details all very close to correct, correct domes, cabs, tenders, etc for each roadname, sound ready tender.
USRA HEAVY 4-8-2 N&W - very correct "as delivered" version, runs great, pulls very well.
B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 - better and more accurate than any model ever made of this loco, and all the other models of it are brass - runs well and pulls well.
USRA LIGHT 2-10-2 (various roads) - correct or nearly correct tenders, air pump placements, running boards, driver types, and more for all the road names offered. The prototypes of these locos went through a lot of changes in details and ownership, so as produced by Bachmann some represent the locos as they appeared for only a brief moment in history, but I did some pretty extensive research on these before deciding to add them the ATLANTIC CENTRAL fleet, and they are all real close or perfect.
Ma & Pa 4-6-0 and 4-4-0 - both spot on perfect and run nice.
And the list could go on - and it could include those not so accruate ones as well.
But the point remains, the generalization of "generic" is patently false.
Sheldon
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Georgia Flash A couple of adages: "You get what you pay for"; "Buyer beware; if it looks too good to be true, it is". With that said, I have seen recent ads for Bachman-brand low-priced locos and rolling stock. Several items fit my current needs. Earlier (1980s) experiences with Bachmann were disappointing. Therefore, I am hesitant to purchase because I am not confident about the quality in terms of scale-accuracy and/or operation of Bachmann products. So... Are there recent reviews and experiences with the current generation of Bachmann locos and rolling stock? Based on quality, why shouldn't I purchase?
A couple of adages: "You get what you pay for"; "Buyer beware; if it looks too good to be true, it is".
With that said, I have seen recent ads for Bachman-brand low-priced locos and rolling stock. Several items fit my current needs. Earlier (1980s) experiences with Bachmann were disappointing. Therefore, I am hesitant to purchase because I am not confident about the quality in terms of scale-accuracy and/or operation of Bachmann products. So...
Are there recent reviews and experiences with the current generation of Bachmann locos and rolling stock? Based on quality, why shouldn't I purchase?
Scale-accuracy? Don't know what that means exactly. Handrails and body shells are very scale-accurate in the new releases.
Apparently, some are concerned about getting road-name-fidelity from a non-preorder, mass produce, company. Hmmm...not sure I understand why anyone would expect to get it.
As far as operation, Bachmann has been upgrading their line-up and have improved their locos operations. Most of the ones recommended by others are newer designs and models.
Some hold overs include the GE 70 and 44 tonners..I just bought another one, and they all seem to suffer from cracked axle gears. Their GP30 and 35 are outclassed by the competition, and run poorly, IMO.
I've had 2 GP38/40's and they run great.
As far as steam, i think anything that they advertise as having "smoke" is a hold over from the trainset days and tend to run poorly also. Spectrum steam and the newer sound-value releases are very nice.
- Douglas
Paul3 Sheldon,And as you know, I have a 25' x 50' layout that runs quite well (we just had an 8-man ops session last week). Am I allowed to comment? Paul A. Cutler III
Sheldon,And as you know, I have a 25' x 50' layout that runs quite well (we just had an 8-man ops session last week). Am I allowed to comment?
Looks like yours is longer than his, er, I mean more square footage so you pass the test. You are a real model railroader and can comment.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I've owned a lot of HO Bachmanns over the past decades, and have two Spectrum 2-8-0s. IMO, you really get what you pay for, especially in their higher end line (i.e. Spectrum). Their locos and cars are a good value - but they are not on the same level as their higher priced "counterparts" like BLI and so forth.
If they have what you are looking for, I would not hesitate to get it.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
riogrande5761Bachmann has made substantial improvements in the past 8 years or so in both chassis quality and paint jobs. There is a segment of the hobby community which will be quite happy with them but they aren't for everyone. I believe thats a fair generalization.
Absolutely..I owned 2 Bachmann a GE70 tonner and a S4 with sound.
Here's my personal thoughts..Why buy(say) a Bachmann GP30 since a LL P2K GP30 can be had for a few bucks more? I've seen Bachmann GP7/9s on e-Bay for the same BIN price as a LL P2K GP7/9.Even some on line shops the price of the Bachmann Geeps is more then a LL P2K Geep on e-Bay or at train shows.
Don't overlook the older Atlas red and yellow box locomotives since those can be had for the same prices.
I do plan on buying a Bachmann DCC/Sound GP9 whenever they decide to release it.
My only Bachmann diesel was Spectrum GE 44-tonner, "cute" model of the very interesting prototype. Only Bachmann made those in HO. It is a good runner, not DCC ready in a simple way, but without question in my "line" to be digitalized.
In the last few months, I added two Alco S-4 switchers from the new Bachmann line, one PRR Sound Value equiped, and one ERIE, DCC ready. Both are great runners, smooth, with silent motors. Manny road specific details, even! (type of headlights, stack, lettering...)
As I payed less then $100 for sound one, and less then $50 for the silent one, i think they are GREAT value for the money.
True, they do not have all the delicate details present on more expensive models, but as I have 5-year old wanting to play with my trains, I do not find it big minus - less details to be in danger of breaking!
DavidMBedard... I didn't mean to feed Sheldon's insecurities but apparently did by accident. But, you said it better than anyone could have ...
Disclaimer for Sheldon: My comments about Bachman are limited only to the diesel line - NOT at Bachman steam - going forward, please remember I am not talking about Bachman steam when I comment on Bachman.
Everyone else, please try to ignore those treadmarks on my back where I was just "stepped on" by the no-layout put-down.
Bachmann has made substantial improvements in the past 8 years or so in both chassis quality and paint jobs. There is a segment of the hobby community which will be quite happy with them but they aren't for everyone. I believe thats a fair generalization.
For a sub$150 locomotive, the Bachmann Berkshire I would have to say, is among the best running loco in my fleet.
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA
ATLANTIC CENTRALYour definition of "reasonable" and someone else's definition of "reasonable" may actually be an "unreasonable" assumption. Given that Bachmann's 2-8-0 Consolidated is "generic" by your own admission and should be the same - no matter which railroad line is represented - in my eyes the Bachmann Durango & Silverton & UP 2-8-0 Consolidateds pictured below is NOT a "reasonable" stand in for an NYC 2-8-0 Consolidated and, therefore, NOT for "all the roadnames offered".
Considering the fact that former D&RGW 493 was a K-37 class narrow gauge Mikado, which never would've operated on the now Durango & Silverton segment of the former D&RGW due to bridge limits, I'd agree with your assessment that it's not a reasonable stand-in for ANY Consolidation.
Pedantic Bruce
ATLANTIC CENTRALHonestly my armchair comment was directed at riogrande who has often turned up his nose at lessor priced/detailed models yet admits he does not have a layout at present.
I don't think one has to have a layout to gain the right to comment. Lots of folks are between layouts, operate at a club, or simply collect models. riogrande is building right now, so his will be back soon enough, if you need that particular credential.
It's true some of the crustier denizens of the foums don't have layouts and that may explain why we never see any pics of anything they do, despite their claim to expertise on just about anything that ever turned a flanged wheel in 1:1 or any other scale.
But that sorts itself out. riogrande isn't impressed by Bachmann, fair enough. Some days are like that for me....then I think of the ones that do run good. When you're cheap you gotta take yer chances.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
ATLANTIC CENTRALIf Bachmann or anyone makes a model that is correct for roadname "A", than that is NOT a "generic" model. Even if they then letter it for roadnames B, C, D, E and F - correct or not. Or in Bachmann's case often the model is correct for roadnames A, B and C, and roadnmaes D and E are stand ins, sometimes close, sometimes not, then again, the term "generic" does not apply in my mind. It may be considered incorrectly lettered for D and E, but it is not generic if it is correct for A, B and C. And maybe that is symantics to some of you, but a "generic" model would be something like a Model Power/Mantua Classic 4-6-2 - not truely an accurate model of any Pacific, but rather a combination of features and demensions from several different locos.
I see your point, Sheldon. While the overall term "generic" would be more appropriately coined to a Mantua locomotive as you outlined, I would still have no problem stating that a certain model was a "generic stand-in" for another RR's locomotive because they are so very different.
As far as the arm chair comment, since you didn't specify a whom, I could only assume you were saying it to both me and rio.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Tom, the point is simply this.
If Bachmann or anyone makes a model that is correct for roadname "A", than that is NOT a "generic" model. Even if they then letter it for roadnames B, C, D, E and F - correct or not.
Or in Bachmann's case often the model is correct for roadnames A, B and C, and roadnmaes D and E are stand ins, sometimes close, sometimes not, then again, the term "generic" does not apply in my mind.
It may be considered incorrectly lettered for D and E, but it is not generic if it is correct for A, B and C.
And maybe that is symantics to some of you, but a "generic" model would be something like a Model Power/Mantua Classic 4-6-2 - not truely an accurate model of any Pacific, but rather a combination of features and demensions from several different locos.
Honestly my armchair comment was directed at riogrande who has often turned up his nose at lessor priced/detailed models yet admits he does not have a layout at present.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Tom, one last thought, I don't know anytihng abot NYC steam, nor do I want to learn. But according to steamlocomotive.com there were over 70 classes of NYC 2-8-0's, and I could only find pictures of two classes on the internet - are you sure none of them looked like the Bachmann model? A similar situation exists with the 4-6-0 you like to complain about - dozens of different classes of 4-6-0's. Have you seen pictures or drawings of all of them? Sheldon
Tom, one last thought, I don't know anytihng abot NYC steam, nor do I want to learn. But according to steamlocomotive.com there were over 70 classes of NYC 2-8-0's, and I could only find pictures of two classes on the internet - are you sure none of them looked like the Bachmann model?
A similar situation exists with the 4-6-0 you like to complain about - dozens of different classes of 4-6-0's.
Have you seen pictures or drawings of all of them?
Sheldon,
Yes, I realize that there were quite a few renditions of the G-Class NYC Consolidation and, no, I don't have drawings of them all. Bachmann's rendition is number "1147". The closest I could find to that number was #1149, which is what I posted earlier. I also found #1144 on Fallen Flags but it pretty much resembles #1149.
I was able to find NYC #1102 on FF and it's the closest to resembling (being a fair stand-in for) the Bachmann offering with the higher steam and sand domes. All you would have to do is change the road numbers and the number board. Too bad Bachmann couldn't have done a little research to get that simple correction made before releasing it. But, in all fairness, no manufacturer has been immune from doing that either.
The Bachmann Ten-wheeler suffers from the same malady as the 2-8-0:
Unfortunately, it resembles it's NYC prototype even less. With that said, NYC #1291 seems to be a little better representation of Bachmann's NYC #1233.
And, no, I don't complain about it, Sheldon. I'm merely pointing out that Bachmann's more generic offerings - which is perfectly fine for them to release and people to purchase (Yes, it is - really) - don't always translate well to all railroads they attempt to model. I think that's the main point that rio was trying to make earlier.
ATLANTIC CENTRALTom, I stand corrected, I did find were they offered NYC for a short time on the 2-8-0. Must not have been a big seller - not offered all that long and mainly sold in sets with a few passenger cars. Fact remains that for many or most of the road names offered it is a reasonable model.
And that's perfectly fine with me, Sheldon. Didn't I say in my earlier post that Bachmann makes "some nice steamers - in particular, their 2-8-0 Consolidated. It runs very smoothly and looks great"?
ATLANTIC CENTRALHere is what I don't understand about you or riogrande - why are you so offended by this issue? Do you really think that we should have the "roadname police" and no one should be "allowed" to sell a model that is not proto specific perfect?
Are you serious? I'm not offended at all, Sheldon. I was merely correcting your earlier erroneous use of the word "all". You're the one who seems to get so quickly bent out of shape when someone expresses an opposing opinion to your own - in particular, whenever it comes to a discussion of Bachmann.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI have not been on here in a while, and this reminds me why. See Ya, I'm going to go have some fun with my 800 sq ft train layout populated with lots of locos and cars that likely don't live up to your high standards - how big is your layout?, how many locos and freight cars have you built from kits? - it is really easy to have such high standards from an arm chair.
Another classic and presumptuous ending paragraph by our beloved, Sheldon. Unbelieveable. But to answer your question, Sheldon: 4 x 8 and over 100 pieces of rolling stock. (I've also done some scratchbuilding, kit-bashing, and craftsman kits of structures.) So, I'm not into "arm chair" modeling either.
And I'll say this one more time for you, Sheldon: People can buy what they want and I'm per-fect-ly fine with that - really. Don't be so quickly offended when someone shares their own opinion that is contrary to your own. We can all live together in the same bunker.
If my B&O EM-1 is any indication of the products to come from Bachman, I can't wait to see future offerings. This loco is "superb" in actual prototype detail and running qualities. Sheldon covers it quite well.
I was never a fan of Bachman years ago until some of the Spectrum steam. Even early Spectrum diesel left a bit to be desired in poor, heavy paint and detail. Quality control seemed to be "all over the place" Two GP30 spectrums ran so differently, I thought they were from different builders. One died after 5 minutes running. Some have decent luck w/ them, I never did, so i sort of shyed away from any of their diesel offerings. I have seem the newer line of diesel improve considerably, the trucks and drive are still a bit "clunky" as compared to Atlas, P2K, Genesis etc. , but the $$$ can speak for itself. Bachman is offering a decent product, now, and for far less cost.
Again, this has become one of my favorites, the detail is suberb, but rather fragile.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Bachmann Has managed to keep their prices in check and their quality has somewhat improved. I prefer their steam over their diesels especially the 2-8-0's.
Joe C
BRAKIE The Spectrum 2-8-0 is a so/so stand in for C&O's G9 2-8-0s.
The Spectrum 2-8-0 is a so/so stand in for C&O's G9 2-8-0s.
Yes it is, and in fact, if you replace the tender with the smaller one Spectrum used on the 2-10-0, it is even closer as those C&O engines had very small tenders.
And as many have proven over the many years the model has been inproduction, it is a great plateform for kit bashing more accurate models.
If this post seems late to the discussion, I haven't been here for a day or two and have missed this until now.
I have to agree with most of what Sheldon has said about the Spectrums. I also could care less about their diesels, although their model of the RS2 is missing one detail for the SRR. The model needs 4 steam era classification lights added to the corners of the hood.
Spectrum/Bachmann DOES have several highly accurate steam locomotives out there and added another within the past couple of years with their Southern Railway 4-4-0.
Adding this to their previous offerings of the 2-10-2, USRA light 4-8-2, and although not as accurate as it could be, the low drivered 4-6-0, one could build a fairly accurate fleet for the Southern, without having to buy brass, which until Bachmann came along would have been impossible.
I have a copy of Richard Prince's book, "Southern Railway Steam Locomotices and Boats". This is considered the "Bible" for SRR steam modelers. This is a go-no go book for me. When a model comes out lettered for Southern, the model is compared by me to the examples in the book. the interesting thing is the 2-10-2, 4-8-2, and 4-4-0 are DEAD ON accurate. The details are there, the colors are correct, and most important, the loco numbers are accurate. Generic? No. Just because they don't make a model thats accurate for what others and their road of choice model, doesn't make the rest of what they produce generic.
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
Tom, I stand corrected, I did find were they offered NYC for a short time on the 2-8-0. Must not have been a big seller - not offered all that long and mainly sold in sets with a few passenger cars.
Fact remains that for many or most of the road names offered it is a reasonable model.
Here is what I don't understand about you or riogrande - why are you so offended by this issue?
Do you really think that we should have the "roadname police" and no one should be "allowed" to sell a model that is not proto specific perfect?
MTH sells 2-8-4's lettered for C&O and RF&P that are not even close, for prices that make me blush, you don't hear much about that.
A big part of Bachmann's market is entry level - train set beginners - who can't or won't afford Trix Mikados or BLI stuff. Maybe they like NYC - and are simply having fun with trains.
I have not been on here in a while, and this reminds me why.
See Ya, I'm going to go have some fun with my 800 sq ft train layout populated with lots of locos and cars that likely don't live up to your high standards - how big is your layout?, how many locos and freight cars have you built from kits? - it is really easy to have such high standards from an arm chair.
tstage ATLANTIC CENTRAL The 2-8-0, while some what generic, is a reasonable stand in for all the roadnames offered...how can you justify such a broad, generized and patently false statement about the accuracy of Bachmann models? Sheldon, Your definition of "reasonable" and someone else's definition of "reasonable" may actually be an "unreasonable" assumption. Given that Bachmann's 2-8-0 Consolidated is "generic" by your own admission and should be the same - no matter which railroad line is represented - in my eyes the Bachmann Durango & Silverton & UP 2-8-0 Consolidateds pictured below is NOT a "reasonable" stand in for an NYC 2-8-0 Consolidated and, therefore, NOT for "all the roadnames offered".
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The 2-8-0, while some what generic, is a reasonable stand in for all the roadnames offered...how can you justify such a broad, generized and patently false statement about the accuracy of Bachmann models?
Your definition of "reasonable" and someone else's definition of "reasonable" may actually be an "unreasonable" assumption. Given that Bachmann's 2-8-0 Consolidated is "generic" by your own admission and should be the same - no matter which railroad line is represented - in my eyes the Bachmann Durango & Silverton & UP 2-8-0 Consolidateds pictured below is NOT a "reasonable" stand in for an NYC 2-8-0 Consolidated and, therefore, NOT for "all the roadnames offered".
Tom, I don't understand your comment - Bachmann never lettered their 2-8-0 in NYC that I am aware of. I have a whole stack of Bachmann catalogs here going back more than a decade - I don't see any Spectrum 2-8-0's lettered NYC.
The roadnames they did offer all had similar heavy 2-8-0's
The loco is from a Baldwin "stock" design. The IC, B&O, Western Maryland, Southern and many others had variations of this design. The design has very similar demenisons and proportions to the Harriman designed 2-8-0's used by the UP, SP and IC.
The only attempt at proto specific details were some different tenders and internal valve gear on the UP models.
But again, in the road names that Bachmann offered the loco, it is a reasonable representation of similar locos used on those roads.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe 2-8-0, while some what generic, is a reasonable stand in for all the roadnames offered...how can you justify such a broad, generized and patently false statement about the accuracy of Bachmann models?
riogrande5761 "Quality" is a loaded word. Yes the quality has improved in terms of paint jobs and chassis, but in terms of "fidelity" to the prototype, not so much. So if you aren't picky about the models Bachman offers matching particular prototypes, and don't mind somewhat "generic" models, I'd say g'head, buy. For me B'man doesn't offer anything I'm interested mainly because as a D&RGW and Southern Pacific fan of the 70's and 80's, their engines are not good matches, even the GP40 - the Rio Grande lettering looks wrong - no go for me. The D&RGW yellow FT are nice in a generic way, and run well, but are "characatures" of the real thing. Again, fine if you aren't going for diesels which "look" like the real thing.
"Quality" is a loaded word. Yes the quality has improved in terms of paint jobs and chassis, but in terms of "fidelity" to the prototype, not so much. So if you aren't picky about the models Bachman offers matching particular prototypes, and don't mind somewhat "generic" models, I'd say g'head, buy.
For me B'man doesn't offer anything I'm interested mainly because as a D&RGW and Southern Pacific fan of the 70's and 80's, their engines are not good matches, even the GP40 - the Rio Grande lettering looks wrong - no go for me. The D&RGW yellow FT are nice in a generic way, and run well, but are "characatures" of the real thing. Again, fine if you aren't going for diesels which "look" like the real thing.
The OP did NOT say if he was interested in steam or diesel or what rolling stock he was interested in.
MOST of the SPECTRUM Steam locos are VERY accurate models of SPECIFIC prototypes, even if they are/were also offered in some "close enough" paint schemes.
The USRA 4-8-2 is very accurate in all the paint schemes it was offered in with the exception of the Southern Pacfic version.
ALL versions of the USRA 2-10-2, and the Russian 2-10-0 are accurate to their roadnames.
The PRR K4 and N&W J - both very accurate.
The Ma & Pa 4-6-0 and 4-4-0 both very accurate.
The 2-8-0, while some what generic, is a reasonable stand in for all the roadnames offered.
Both versions of the 2-6-6-2 are very accruate models in ALL the roadnames offered.
The 2-8-4 Berkshire/Kanawha from Bachmann is WAY more accurate for EVERY roadname offered than the over priced, crudely detailed model from MTH.
The B&O EM-1 - as accurate as any brass model I have ever seen - and I have spent my whole life living here in the home of the B&O, and been modeling it since age 12.
As for diesels, those D&RGW FT's don't cost anywhere near what Intermountain, Genesis, BLI or other high detail, proto specific detail locos cost - not a FAIR comparison. Yes it is a generic FT - for EVERY roadname it is offered in and has only basic detail - like a 1960's Athearn F unit.
As I have commented before - judging a whole brand as a group is generally a bad idea. They all make winners, they all make loosers, they all make stuff that is of no need or interest to the specific goals of specific modelers.
I could talk the same way about Atlas in the sense that very little of what they make is in my era of interest, their detail is a little more "bulkly" in some cases, their prices are higher, and their availablity is spotty unless you preorder - which I don't do - but the truth is Atlas makes excelent locos - even if none of them suit my needs.
Bachmann makes lots of products for the "entry" level in the hobby. And the operational and build quality of all their products has been very high and constantly improved over the last decade or more.
But the consumer must choose to except the detail level at one price, or pay more to get better/more accurate models (or learn to actually build models and detial them yourself - never mind, what a silly idea that was).
I have lots of Bachmann models - mostly steam locos, some of the specialized diesels - GE 70 tonners, 44 tonners, doodlebugs.
They are all excelent looking and running models, and all represent excelent values at the prices they were offered at.
So please tell me riograde, how can you justify such a broad, generized and patently false statement about the accuracy of Bachmann models? And please tell me the name of a major company in this hobby who does not offer any "generic" or "stand in" type models? Or models that lack some of the proto specific fine details of the some of the roadnames offered?
Again, I think everyone understands that Bachmann FT's are not on a par with Intermoutain or Genesis detail wise, and that Bachmann rolling stock is not on a par with a Rapido coach or a Spring Mills Depot B&O bay window caboose - but Bachmann is not asking $50 or $100 for any of thier rolling stock either.
In fact, the street price of the of those FT locos is ONLY about $50 - less than half the price of all those "suoer detailed" locos.
And, in my mind, QUALITY, in the case of model trains, does not relate to fine prototype accuracy - That would be like saying the Bowser/Stewart F units are low quality because they come without handrails and other details - yet they are one of the best running and best detailed shell castings ever made of an F unit (but I do personally prefer Intermountain and Genesis in the EMD F unit department).
Respectfully, stop judging WHOLE products lines based on one or two products, or the fact that you are not interested in the products they do make.