Short Diesels Are Least Trouble, Right?

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone. I'm building my first layout, a small one in my bedroom. I was given a bunch of Atlas Customline switches, both #6 and #4 and Wye size. I'm just starting out, and I want to keep the problems to a minumum at first.

Do I understand this right? Short diesel locomotives will be the most problem free on my little layout with my tight turns and switches?

Like First Generation, 4-axle, switching locomotives? Built by any of the big companies I see advetising like Atlas or Kato or etc? Buying these engines would be best for me, right?

Big, long, modern, 6 axle engines would be no good for me, right?

What about steam engines with tenders?

Or steam engines without a tender....like a 0-6-0 yard goat?

Thank you very much. I was at a model railroad club building in Union, NJ, just for a little while, and I was amazed at what I saw. I have money saved for the new XBox games that come out this fall, but now I want to use the money for model railroad stuff.

Thanks alot. Tony B.

[cwclark]

you should use shorter diesels on the #4 turnouts but you can get away with the bigger ones if you go REAL slow on the #4's ..it is prefered that the #6's are used for bigger equipment which includes large rolling stock like 70 ft. passenger cars...also I wouldn't go with track radius smaller than 22" with the big diesels either..now, short diesels can give you trouble also..if it's like a 44 tonner and you stop it on a frog of an atlas customline turnout that has insulated frogs then the train will loose contact with the metal part of the rail and then it won't run...shorter diesels have their own problems also..i don't know about steam locomotives..i run diesel only...Chuck[:D]

[Anonymous]

All loco's have there strengths and weaknesses but there is no substiute for good trackwork

[Anonymous]

Short diesels, espicaly switchers, are the way to go on a small layout. The old atlas s2, yellow box, has a roco austrian drive that is just perfect for small layouts. I prefer the older atlas diesels to the newer ones, the older ones had either a kato drive or a roco drive. both run very well and dont have all the little seperate details to get broken when handling on a small switching layout. They mainly have alco diesels, S2, RS1, RS3, ect. If you prefer EMD locomotives, Lifelike proto 2000 does an excellent SW locomotive, as did Kato. Try to invest in more in both the locomotive and the powerpack, you will be glad you did later on. Peco makes great power routing turnouts in the track dept. The points are sprung loaded, you just pu***hem to the route you want and the power shuts off to the closed route and turns on to the route you selected. I currently run a pair of Atlas/roco drive Alco S2's and an old Atlas/Kato RS1. on a small switching layout. all three run nice an slow and quietly. Cheers Mike

[Anonymous]

I agree that shorter diesels will offer less problems. Good trackwork is a must, but on the same trackwork, a shorter diesel will be less problematic (and won't look as awkward).

---jps

[tstage]

Tony,

Any of the ALCO switchers (e.g. S-series) you should be fine with. I run my 2-8-2 Mike through ATLAS manual turnouts (a tighter #4) with very little problem, so I would think that the 0-6-0 should be the same.

Tom

P.S. Check out Train World (http://www.trainworld1.com). You can pick up some great deals if you hunt around. They still have some Proto 2000 S1 switchers for $29.99. (Reg. $110) I bought one two months ago. GREAT little switcher!!!

[Anonymous]

Short diesels are they way to go especially as you start out. My first diesel was an Athearn GP-35. I also started out with one of the Atlas track plans they have in their layout book. I found that the small engines ran and looked better on the 4X8 layout with 18" curves. I think any of the GPs or RS engines will do fine. I would stick with the Atlas/Kato yellow boxes mentioned, or the newer Atlas classics engines.

Also, ebay is a great source for engines and rolling stock. You can find great deals to help you stretch your money.

[Anonymous]

Tony,

Congrats on your choice! When I lived in NJ (15 years ago) I visited the club in Union several times and was totally impressed and awestruck! I can't imagine what it must look like now!!

As I am assuming you are a student-aged modelers, I congratulate you on your decision on where to spend your hard earned cash. Model railroading will provide you with benefits long after the X-box is forgotten. Things I learned in model railroading helped me in High School (affect that railroads had in the Civil War), College (Engineering major - basic electronic circuits, dynamic brakes, transportation system design), Business School (Penn Central Bankruptcy, monopolies), Law School (railroad affects on tort law, attractive nuisance of turntables etc) and life (carpentry skills, soldering etc). Moreover, even the things that are frustrating at first will give you a tremendous sense of satisfaction and pride when you overcome them.

I hope you enjoy this hobby! I have for over 30 years!

[ndbprr]

Yes short wheelbase engines are the way to go. Just avoid anything with a three pole open frame motor and you should be fine. The one exception I would make to that rule is an Athearn switcher but for really great running insert an Ernst transmission in it for better running and slow speed operation. It basically drops into the engine and costs under $10.00. It requires no gluing, cutting or other work and the directions are excellent.

[Anonymous]

ndbprr,

Have you ever tried the Ernst in an RDC? Was wondering how it works. I have quite a few Athearn units that are in need of an update to the rubber band drive. Would love to do the Spud or PDT thing, but cost would be an issue.

[Anonymous]

Short locos are indeed the way to go - having said that, you don't have to be restricted to 4-axle locos - I started with an Athearn SD9 which seems to cope with pretty much anything - it's the same length as my Athearn GP60 (also a good loco) despite having 2 extra axles. Note that this doesn't stop you from modelling modern operations - Athearn offer a GP60M, Walthers and Atlas have Dash8-40Bs - both modern 4-axle locos. I can recommend the Walthers Dash 8 as a smooth-running loco that looks the part, adding Kadees is simple (#5 at the back, #26 at the front) and the results are well worth it. Hope this is of help!
Matt

[Don Gibson]

Direct answers to direct questions:

QUOTE: Originally posted by Conrail20041

Hello everyone. I'm building my first layout, a small one in my bedroom. I was given a bunch of Atlas Customline switches, both #6 and #4 and Wye size. I'm just starting out, and I want to keep the problems to a minumum at first.

Do I understand this right? Short diesel locomotives will be the most problem free on my little layout with my tight turns and switches? Thanks alot. Tony B.

YES! - with conditions.

1. Long locomotives and car's look (and are) out of place on a small layout.
2. GP's do the job (coupling uncoupling) better than Modern SD and U Boats.
3. Steam is more sensitive to tight curves and #4 turnout.'s. That includes 0-6-0's.
One has to take it on an individual basis. (You spends your mony and takes your chances).
4.The cheapest engine is often NOT the most problem free.

Everyone has recommendations: Mine are Stewart 'Baldwin switchers ,Proto 2000 or Atlas 'Geeps', Athearn 'CF-7. (ALL 'short 'and sweet'.) Avoid big engine's and long cars, and you'll have more enjoyment - and less headache's.

AVOID used equipment when starting off (Someone else's problem?).

[darth9x9]

My Atlas Master Series SD-35s negotiate #4 switches just fine. As mentioned above, good clean trackwork is a must.

[Don Gibson]

That's fine Bill, but a GP-35 does it even better.

[ckape]

In my experience roblems with 6-axle units are more confined to kinks in flextrack connections on curves than to turnout number.

[Anonymous]

Conrail20041 never stated what type of layout, so the assumption is some kind of loop on an 4X8 sheet. I'd suggest Conrail start at his local train supply and peruse some of the Atlas plan books. There are some nice point to point layouts which will allow you to use bigger turnouts and more relaxed curves since your not concerned about a return loop. This in turn allows you greater flexability of what you want to run. The Atlas books promote sectional track but flex track has less joints which means less points of potential trouble.

[EL PARRo]

My layout has 24" curves and mostly #6 turnouts, and even then, I notice a bit of a difference between my medium size light mountain and my smaller GP9 and 2-truck Heisler because of the track.

You said you had #4 and #6 turnouts? I'd recomend using #6 on the mainline and #4 and wye's elsewhere. Also, try to use 24" curves, unless you really need the space, but I still wouldn't go smaller than 22".

Even if you plan on using small locomotives, use the largest curves you can. Even though smaller locos can operate on small curves, any locomotive, no matter how big or small, will run better on larger curves and turnouts.

Smooth trackwork is also very important.

[Jetrock]

Hooray for the small locomotives!

Some I can recommend strongly, from smallest to largest:

Bachmann Spectrum GE 44-tonner (second version): The early version of this loco had problems due to its two small power trucks--if not perfectly in tune, one would eventually burn out. The newer version has a single motor and all-wheel pickup, so it won't go dead rolling over an insulated frog, and it's a nice runner too. It will handle curves as tight as 9-10" although curves generally don't go that tight in HO.

Life-Like Proto 2000 S1: I must echo the above sentiments about the Proto S1. I have one and it is by far my best-running engine. I paid $40 for mine and even though some apparently got theirs for $30 it was still worth it! The detail is great and it gives good, smooth slow-speed operation. The prototype S1 was designed to go around curves 50 feet in radius--that's around seven inches in HO scale! While I haven't tried that, they too will march happily around your snarliest trackwork.

Athearn GP9 (or GP38 or, heck, any Athearn Geep): Say what you will about Athearn, they're inexpensive enough to be accessible but well-made enough to run like tops for years. I own two, both are at least 25 years old and while they need a little love once in a while they both run very reliably. They're big enough to work as a road engine but small enough to be a switcher, and you still find them running today--on short lines, branch lines, even on UP and BNSF! They will go quite happily through #4 turnouts and 15" radius curves. You might have problems if you take those curves and turnouts at super-high speed--but slow-moving trains look better anyhow. Make sure you get one with a flywheel--they help pu***he car through "dead spots" in the track and simulate momentum (trains take a long time to brake!) which makes for more realistic running.

Small diesels are nice for many reasons--a high-quality small diesel costs about the same as a low-end big diesel, they fit around those tight curves, and they're so darned cute!

Small steam works, although most smaller steam comes from a much earlier era of railroading. If you want to model the late 18th Century or early 1900's, there were plenty of small locomotives running the mainline that could take those sort of curves, like the classic American 4-4-0 configuration steam engine. 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 steam switchers are practical as well, but generally you'd only find them in switchyards or industrial areas (which, by the way, are fun places to model, and a great excuse for super-tight curves!) Generally, past around 1930-1940, most of the steam you'd find would be big steam (diesels were first used as switchers, and many older/smaller steam engines were melted for scrap during World War II.)

Good luck and welcome to the hobby! One nice thing you'll find is that most model railroad stuff ages well--in 20 years that Xbox will look as cheesy as an Atari 2600 now...but a good-quality model locomotive will still be chugging around your layout a few decades from now!

[xdford]

My own layout has slightly sharper than 18" curves but the trick is to make transition curves which are easy when you lay flex track, particularly Peco which is the standard here in Australia. I have an F45 which while a little ungainly is OK. I also have a Mantua 4-6-2 which has a fair overhang despite the Mikado with the same Boiler looking OK. It will be awhile before I can update to larger curves and I have a Proto RDC which loks absolutely stupid on my curves so I will run it on the club layout. My own layout has a website... http://xdford.digitalzones.com/modelrr.html and follow the links.

Good luck in the hobby... I've been with models with 40 years of many kinds... its a great way to do many things including meet people, hone your own skills, spend time constructively and have "game value"... what more could you ask?

[BRAKIE]

Best bet would be 4 axle diesels and nothing bigger then a 2-8-0 steam locomotive...You see these locomotives was design to run on 18" curves and can use #4 switches.
The following diesel will work on 18" curves and #4 switches.
F units
FA units
GP7s
CF7s
GP9s
RS1
RS2
RS3
GP30
GP35
GP38
GP38-2
GP40
GP40-2
GP50
GP60
Plus some 4 axle GE units
Steam
0-4-0
0-6-0
2-6-0
2-6-2
2-8-0
4-6-2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However if your layout isn't built then I suggest at least 22" curves(bigger if space allows) and #6 switches for the main lines and #4s for yard..

[ndbprr]

I have not tried the Ernst transmission in an Athearn RDC and can't comment. At this point I think I would just bite the bullet and get the P2K full length version as the Athearn is shorter like their passenger cars.

[Tilden]

Tony, it really depends. Larger locomotives can cause problems but you'll find the condition of the switch and locomotive trucks are more the governing factor.
Is the switch (regardless of size) in good shape? Is it flat? Points in gauge and move freely over the whole range of motion? Do the points lock up securely when thrown? Do you have transitions into your switches, avoiding S-curves is very important. Are the locomotives wheels in gauge? Just a bit too wide and they will pick the pints of a switch no mater how small the engine. I do agree some six axle locos like the SD7 & 9 are fine with #4 switches. And yes the larger the radius the better especially entering and exiting switches.

[Anonymous]

I can get a 4-8-4, a 4-8-2, and a 4-6-6-4 around my 5x8 layout, so you should have no problem.

[Anonymous]

here is what I would suggest : make sure that your trackwork is very good . here are some good locos for small layouts : bachmann standard line diesels are great runners at low costs. athearn blue box locos are OK. Life like proto 2000 are great but can get into the $40 range. atlas is top quality but more expensive. don't let anyone tell you that Bachmann is really bad because they are great locos !!! I have both standard and spectrum line trains from them and they are both excelent ! hope this helps !

[Anonymous]

ndbprr,

I have several of the P1K RDC's that I got from Trainworld at a very good price. The will be stripped repainted (gotta try that Alcad stuff!) and relettered for CNJ.

I am in the process of turning the Athearn RDC's into electric MU units. I'm looking at cutting off the exhaust thingie on the roof and smoothing out all the fluting to make it look less like an RDC while adding pantographs etc to them. I was thinking about using the P1K drive and trucks to run these (again, trainworld has got some great buys on these still), but I think it might be easier to just regear the things with the Ernst units.

[Don Gibson]

4 X 6 LAYOUT:

You can design for Industrrial switching (Picking up and delivering cars), or running in a oblong circle. Unfortunately running in circle's gets boring fast..
# 4 switches take up less room., as do shorter engine and cars .

If you buy an engine for switching, smooth start's and stops (not speed) should be your #1 goal.
If you want 'Mainline' running, your selected ROAD probably would be your top priority, representing your chosen 'Era'.

[Anonymous]

Also try to make your curves "lean". This will help ANY engine or car through them, but that's not saying you can run what you want. As stated many times, you're better off with small SD's and pretty much any Geep. You may also be able to manage a small
U-boat (under U-30 B/C) too. Try to keep your cars around the 50 foot range. You can probably get away with 60 foot cars, if they are "tuned" right.

And clean, quality track work and wiring are key.

[Anonymous]

Welcome aboard Conrail, you are embarking on a hooby that will challange you as no video ever could. Your question brought to mind my first 8'X4' HO layout many nostalgic years ago. I used a "point to point, way freight" concept with an engine turntable at one end. The "table" (manual) was only long enough to handle a Mantua 4-6-0 "ten wheeler" with tender. The "way freight" idea yielded maximum operation for the limited space available. With long winding S-curves on a U-shape trunk line and industrial sidings at every practical opportunity , I enjoyed lots of operation on the "point-to-point" concept. You will have room enough for a short "stub end" yard at one end and a passing siding somewhere midway between lines end. That would afford you the opportunity for two train operation, eventually. Perhaps, a "Dockside" 0-4-0 steam loco would be a good first choice to get freight moving. There is plenty of adivse already given on Diesel options. Later, you may want to add a passenger consist of: a combine and a couple of day coaches (early wood side vintage) of short wheel bases. This can be mixed with freight and now you have a two train operation with the passing siding (for meets) just like prototype R.R. operations. I hope this gives you some ideas other than "glitzy" high speed and long consists which will become as stale as any video over time. Be sure to get a good book on D.C. wiring and, my friend, you will be a "hogger," first-class in no time at all. Best of luck.