Larry,
As a matter of fact, I have stopped at Karen's, never made any stops in ''Buc' Russ,'' though.
Clev, Youngtwn, Tollie, Cincy, and your town Columbus, many Sealand containers going there. Also a lot of containers, that came out of the port in Baltimore, from Germany with precision router machines, for some cabinet maker in Northeast Ohio, I guess you could say the plant was the town, almost all Amish workers there. What a trip that joint was, that cut a hole in the side of the building so I could back inside, so the crane that they put in there, could unload this machine that was as long as a fourty foot open top container. I never had to touch a thing, just pull the truck slowly forward so the crane could adjust to the angle of the machine. WOW! What a place.
Frank
BTW: I think we are a little off topic here. But....
Frank,Seeing you ran on RT.30 I suspect you been through Bucyrus on the bypass and may have eaten at Karen's Dinner just West of Bucyrus.
Ever make deliveries to Swan hose?
I recall one twice a week trucker that talked about model railroading after seeing a copy of MR on my desk..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
After driving a truck across Ohio, so many times in my life. I can attest to taking all the two lanes, west to east in Ohio, mainly, 20 and 30, there is just so much more to see, rather than the turnpike, or Interstates. Amish restaurant buffet, for instance, truck parking, all you can eat 5.00, includes coffee. Then listen to the cry babies, on the Interstates saying how bad and how much it costs for food, in the truck stops. If you plan it right, running the two lanes is faster and cheaper.
Just My Other
Stripe
IRONROOSTER BRAKIE ... the old hobby shops with their dusty full price decade old stock... And yet those are my favorite hobby shops when I'm out traveling. We used to have one near me that was like stepping back in time 20-30 years. It was like going to a museum. Sadly, the owner died and the shop closed. Enjoy Paul
BRAKIE ... the old hobby shops with their dusty full price decade old stock...
... the old hobby shops with their dusty full price decade old stock...
And yet those are my favorite hobby shops when I'm out traveling. We used to have one near me that was like stepping back in time 20-30 years. It was like going to a museum. Sadly, the owner died and the shop closed.
Enjoy
Paul
Paul,When I travel I take the old state routes that goes through small towns and small cities..
Even today there are hidden treasure coves that may simply say " Tom's Bike & Hobby",Randy's R/C Hobbies or some such name and when I stop and check the store I am amaze of the "treasures" I found.
If any one is still wondering why the LHS is disappearing just go the the web site of any major online retailer such as model train stuff or Walthers and look at the massive number of items they inventory as well as the quanity. Storing and keeping track of it all is simply amazing.
You couldn't fit their inventory in a LHS.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Lets face it, any business can be hard and a lot of people in business should not be. It takes a lot of hours to run most businesses, a lot, and most are not willing to put in the time!
Just thought I would throw in another . My belief, as far as the LHS's goes, to me is pretty obvious and a lot of people, are failing to take in account of that fact. I will use my own childhood as an example. My first visit to a LHS, was 1950, I was eight years old. Sat. matinee at the show, costs 25 cents, for two hours, movie, cartoons and whatever else I could buy with my allowance, of a dollar a week. Right directly across the street was a LHS. To try and make a long story short, after my first visit to it, I only went to the show, when there was something extremely good showing. All my nickels and dimes, went into saving to buy, the Ulrich HO scale trucks at the time, which were 2.95, I was hooked. Getting to my point, most LHS's that I frequented are gone, mainly because, the people who owned them either retired or passed on and had no one to take on the business or the desire to do so.
There are so many variable's in this Hobby and other's for that matter, that you can talk til you are blue in the face and still come up with an empty bag.
I suspect, rather I know the local shop by me will close soon, His wife and He are my age and He is not doing very well. I have known Him for 40yrs. I at one time was going to take it over, but learned through Him, that it is a lot harder to stay in business now a days, then people realize.
I remain,
Striped, ( meaning dismayed)
richhotrainBut, the thread quickly degenerated into the same old blah, blah, blah about the failure of the LHS to keep up with the times, poor management, poor inventory control, bad economics, failure to compete with the Internet, and on and on and on. You get the impression that no one cares that the LHS is fading away and many even seem to encourage that. That is what I find boring. I am surprised that you don't. Rich
Boring or reality?
I feel its more reality then boring the old hobby shops with their dusty full price decade old stock no longer gets it for the majority-that the reality.
Boring is those that still see these shops with their antiquated stock a valuable thing..
Let's face the harsh facts how many times will a modeler look over or even consider buying that Hooten Hollow & Western GP9 that's been in the case for the last decade or buy cars that been on the shelf for several years?
How many of that shops customer look elsewhere for their needs?
Geez, sorry to cause so much stress over my boredom comment.
It's just that the original theme of the OP's initial post was long lost as the replies started coming in.
I made the point early on in the thread that I found the hobby shop statement quite nostalgic. The fellow who wrote it mused over the fact that he first visited the shop as a 6-year old kid and later got a job working there. I would be willing to bet that any one of us over the age of 50 can also recall fondly our first visit to a hobby shop.
But, the thread quickly degenerated into the same old blah, blah, blah about the failure of the LHS to keep up with the times, poor management, poor inventory control, bad economics, failure to compete with the Internet, and on and on and on. You get the impression that no one cares that the LHS is fading away and many even seem to encourage that.
That is what I find boring. I am surprised that you don't.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain cmrproducts Yet - YOU keep reading these replies Obviously YOU like being bored! Keep on having fun - as I doubt this thread will stop anytime soon! I could jump in here at anytime as I run a Shop too! - but can't change the future! BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproducts Yet - YOU keep reading these replies Obviously YOU like being bored! Keep on having fun - as I doubt this thread will stop anytime soon! I could jump in here at anytime as I run a Shop too! - but can't change the future! BOB H - Clarion, PA
Yet - YOU keep reading these replies
Obviously YOU like being bored!
Keep on having fun - as I doubt this thread will stop anytime soon!
I could jump in here at anytime as I run a Shop too! - but can't change the future!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Hmmm. It would appear as if he's not happy unless he's bored out of his skull.
Kinda like my wife's aunt who lives next door to us. She's actually not happy unless she's irate about something.
Come to think of it, that may make my wife's aunt a closet model railroader judging by some of the things I see posted at the MR site.
Andre
cmrproducts IRONROOSTER richhotrain This thread long ago began to bore me. Rich And yet you continue to read it and post to it. Paul That is what I throught TOO! BOB H - Clarion, PA
IRONROOSTER richhotrain This thread long ago began to bore me. Rich And yet you continue to read it and post to it. Paul
richhotrain This thread long ago began to bore me. Rich
This thread long ago began to bore me.
And yet you continue to read it and post to it.
That is what I throught TOO!
And these replies bore me too.
Frank,I seen my son's and grandson's war hammer figurines and that does take craftsmanship to build and paint those things..Both are good at their hobby as far as painting,building a game table to include scenery..
STEAMNUT,
I just happened to reread a lot of these posts and came across Your's, where you stated what your son is into. I'm not going to get in a long thing about Model Railroading dying, for if in fact it is, there would be nothing Icould do to prevent it. To me, it will always be there for those who want it to be. Times change and one thing for me anyway has not. I enjoy the craftsman side of any hobby, plain and simple. One of my son's who is 40, a well known computer geek, if you want to use the term, is also a Warhammer 40,000 Games Workshop, heavy duty player and guess who builds and paints His Models, yours truly. I lot of people complain that they don't have patience or skills in Trains, well they would be out of luck, with Warhammer, figures and vehicles as your Son will attest. Plastic sprues, full of heads, arms, legs, torso's, weapons,laser cannons, you name it, all molded in one color, light grey. Now that is a craftsman skill and I salute your Son. Ask him if he knows about the Imperial Guard Chimera, that is my Son's choice for his Army. I am slowly building a 150 gal fish tank diorama, for his War, along with playing with trains.
Take Care!
steamnutLarry, you are talking about Games Workshop and primarily the World of Warhammer. I have to tell you that you are very mistaken. Games Workshop relies heavily on retail shops - increasingly, their own corporate-owned ones but also independents.
Mayhap I'm wrong for some..
My son's group( clan?) orders on line and through e-bay..My youngest grandson(15) and his group orders from some on line shop that specializes in such things.All head over to Hobby Lobby and buy their Woodland Scenics material for their gaming table(or what ever its called).
What amazes me there is lots of adults playing those games and some does excellent scenery work...
I'm a bit reluctant to comment given that I never visited the store in question (I think that living 3,000 miles away is a decent excuse).
I personally believe that this in part is macro economics; yes, the world of the Internet has made brick-and-mortar retailing even tougher than before (and folks, its never been easy).
But only in part, and I think less than 50%. If you can find an inexpensive location, have sufficient capital (BTW well under $1M and way, way under Sheldon's $10M) and make intelligent business decisions I fully believe that a living can still be had out of a model-railroading focused hobby shop. From the sound of it, and despite the owner's "cry me a river", it seems that this shop was NOT well run.
Look at Caboose Hobbies as an example (and yes, if THEY go under then I will admit that bricks and mortar hobby shops are probably not salvageable). What are they doing right?
They HAVE stuff (BTW I live in the Washington, D.C. metro area so am not a regular Caboose customer). Folks, there was mail order long before there was the Internet. I often mail-ordered stuff from Walthers that I would have preferred to buy locally because "We can get it for you [in four to eight weeks while we bunch our next wholesale order]" DOES NOT CUT IT. Why were the local shops mostly always OUT of the basic stuff I needed - paint, glue, stripwood, etc.? Answer: They were lousy businessmen who couldn't track or plan their inventory.
What else? They have a thriving mail-order business that additionally supports their retail store. You know the saying - if you can't beat them, join them.
Its really too bad. The last dedicated model train shop in my area closed years ago when their sweetheart lease ran out. Another macro trend is that while there is a well-run generally well-stocked general-purpose hobby store (Piper Hobby) in the area, it is 12 miles away which 10 years ago was maybe $1.80 in gas for me and today is $5 in gas ... Still that is another shop that is still in business because I can usually rely on it for immediate needs.
And while we are on this topic, don't forget the Internet's opening up of the so-called Long Tail, i.e. we have many small suppliers who exist only because the Internet allows them to sell direct.
BRAKIE richhotrain BRAKIE richhotrain The LHS provided the physical presence of sample layouts, inventory, and on site expertise. It is pretty hard to get excited about the hobby when all you have to go on is a laptop or a mini-iPad. Rich I know this..My youngest grandson is a gamer like his dad and has never bought a game from any retail shop including Gamestop.He buys his games on line.When he is stuck in a game he turns to youtube for the solution.. Besides model railroading doesn't require a PHD and help can be found on the internet through forums such as this and youtube and that help is available 24/7.. Not the same thing, Larry. Buying a computer game to play on a computer is not the same thing as buying a locomotive, rolling stock, a power pack, setting up electronics, landscaping, building structures, installing decoders in DCC, etc, etc, etc. Rich All of those concerns is covered on forums,youtube and Kalmbach books.. You seem be clinging to the age of dinosaurs when you're in the computer age and the same thing is dooming hobby shops. Did you know Woodland Scenics has videos on their web site that shows you how to use their products? Do you know there are gamers that build dioramas for playing roll playing games with miniture figurines? I suspect the majority of those players has never set foot into a hobby shop when they bought their Woodland Scenic products or model paint..
richhotrain BRAKIE richhotrain The LHS provided the physical presence of sample layouts, inventory, and on site expertise. It is pretty hard to get excited about the hobby when all you have to go on is a laptop or a mini-iPad. Rich I know this..My youngest grandson is a gamer like his dad and has never bought a game from any retail shop including Gamestop.He buys his games on line.When he is stuck in a game he turns to youtube for the solution.. Besides model railroading doesn't require a PHD and help can be found on the internet through forums such as this and youtube and that help is available 24/7.. Not the same thing, Larry. Buying a computer game to play on a computer is not the same thing as buying a locomotive, rolling stock, a power pack, setting up electronics, landscaping, building structures, installing decoders in DCC, etc, etc, etc. Rich
BRAKIE richhotrain The LHS provided the physical presence of sample layouts, inventory, and on site expertise. It is pretty hard to get excited about the hobby when all you have to go on is a laptop or a mini-iPad. Rich I know this..My youngest grandson is a gamer like his dad and has never bought a game from any retail shop including Gamestop.He buys his games on line.When he is stuck in a game he turns to youtube for the solution.. Besides model railroading doesn't require a PHD and help can be found on the internet through forums such as this and youtube and that help is available 24/7..
richhotrain The LHS provided the physical presence of sample layouts, inventory, and on site expertise. It is pretty hard to get excited about the hobby when all you have to go on is a laptop or a mini-iPad. Rich
I know this..My youngest grandson is a gamer like his dad and has never bought a game from any retail shop including Gamestop.He buys his games on line.When he is stuck in a game he turns to youtube for the solution..
Besides model railroading doesn't require a PHD and help can be found on the internet through forums such as this and youtube and that help is available 24/7..
Not the same thing, Larry.
Buying a computer game to play on a computer is not the same thing as buying a locomotive, rolling stock, a power pack, setting up electronics, landscaping, building structures, installing decoders in DCC, etc, etc, etc.
All of those concerns is covered on forums,youtube and Kalmbach books..
You seem be clinging to the age of dinosaurs when you're in the computer age and the same thing is dooming hobby shops.
Did you know Woodland Scenics has videos on their web site that shows you how to use their products?
Do you know there are gamers that build dioramas for playing roll playing games with miniture figurines? I suspect the majority of those players has never set foot into a hobby shop when they bought their Woodland Scenic products or model paint..
Larry, you are talking about Games Workshop and primarily the World of Warhammer. I have to tell you that you are very mistaken. Games Workshop relies heavily on retail shops - increasingly, their own corporate-owned ones but also independents. And that is how my son got into miniatures and true hobbying - in his case, painting and mounting his Warhammer figures. He loves train BTW but he wanted his own hobby, that he could enjoy with his contemporaries, too. The stores don't just sell stuff, they provide a means of meeting like-minded players, and a venue on weekends for playing Warhammer games, also very good advice. These stores are the key marketing method for luring new kids into the world of Warhammer.
I don't know how they manage it and I've oftenw wondered if it is actually legal, but the key to the success of Games Workshop retail is that nobody gets special pricing (like Athearn, apparently) but furthermore, they all must sell at the manufacturer's MSRP. They can only mark stuff down if it is a manucfacturer-endorsed sale. It also appears to me that they actively discourage, and may refuse to supply to, Internet- or mainly-Internet resellers.
In the last 5 years or so, I've seen the two major hobby shops that could be considered local close. But in the thirty or more years I used them, I also saw one of them slowly changing, stocking more RTR and fewer kits and parts. The other, the owner is older than I am, retired, I don't blame him, I don't know if he tried to find someone to carry the business after he'd decided he was going to retire.
The one I would consider my LHS survives more because he's also a custom woodworker and also stocks a lot of craft materials. But in model railroad, as well as model boats and aircraft, he's a "one supplier" store. Unfortunately, that's usually Horizon. They can supply him with a limited range of products, but that limited range is not enough.
Then, the prices of the hobby materials has gone through the roof, for whatever reasons. IF I want scribed sheeting or stripwood, I have to order it and wait, which I do and I'm thankful it's still available. Ditto for detail parts, he can't afford to stock most of them.
But there are also other reasons that we don't have any control over, one of them being years ago while I was working, for long periods I was working a forty hour week, and as much overtime as I wanted, or more than I wanted. I had the bucks. Now, finding a forty hour a week job is difficult, and overtime is a thing of the past. Combine that with rising prices, shouldn't be difficult to figure what's not going to happen.
Hobbies are for the most part impulse buying. Which is where the LHS excells, I came, I saw, I want. If I don't go, I don't see, and I don't want. THe LHS is the only place in town I even see models of any kind, beyond the Ertl tractors. The chance for an impulse buy and the sometimes additional buys is not here anymore. The LHS is caught in a bind, he can't afford to stock without sales, and without stocking, what's to sell?
Rich.
cmrproducts What is going to be intersting is once 90% of all Hobby Stores are gone We will begin seeing Internet Stores closing! What will take the place of the Internet Stores? And don't say they will last forever - as NOTHING Lasts FOREVER! BOB H - Clarion, PA
What is going to be intersting is once 90% of all Hobby Stores are gone
We will begin seeing Internet Stores closing!
What will take the place of the Internet Stores?
And don't say they will last forever - as NOTHING Lasts FOREVER!
If you want to be technical, the earth won't last forever. But lets not get into that since this is a train forum and not a Religious forum.
As we've all been noticing since the 70's, brick and mortor stores have been closing and probably since online vendors became the norm, that has accelerlated. I expect the shift wll continue as shops no longer remain financialy viable without internet sales. Most of the long term vendors will be internet only or a hybrid of internet and store front. I expect those internet vendors who do close will mostly close when the owner retires and no body is taking over - just like B&M store.
If this warms the cockles of your heart, I heard a report on the radio that many traditional stores, including shopping malls, are losing relevance and will be suffing sales in the internet age.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I'll toss in my thoughts... I think the loss of the brick and mortar hobby shop is something that's more emotional than anything else. Its no real problem for most of us. I like the idea of supporting mom and pop businesses over big box companies, but at the end of the day, we're talking about retail stores. Most retail stores don't add value to a product, they just sell what has been made by somebody else and simply bring that product to the consumer. In the end, whether its big box stores, mail order, internet, or mom and pop shops, I don't really care because they are all interchangeable to me. I'm sorry if that offends people, but if a shop doesn't offer a service, a warranty, some knowledge and expertise, i.e, something of value other than just an opportunity for me to buy a pre-packaged item, where I buy the item makes no difference to me.
While it presents some sadness to me to see these shops close, like a part of my childhood fading away, it doesn't keep me from being able to buy model train items. If LHS's closing actually hurt my ability to find what I want, then it would be a problem.
- Douglas
vsmithwhy is the USPS still having money problems? You'd think they'd be doing OK with the online shipping mailing business, granted UPS and FedEx have big shares of that, but I have always found the USPS to be more reliable than either of the two private services. Just a thought.
Well,here's what I have read on this and other forums and heard..
You mention USPS to some and the normal reply is "they're to slow","costs as much as UPS",I don't want to stand in line at the post office when all I need to do is drop my package off at a UPS point".
The majority I talked to didn't know the priority shipping boxes are free,can be ordered on line delivered to your door and when its ready to ship your mailman/woman will pick it up at your door.
Common knowledge.
IRONROOSTER I am my own LHS. I stock kits, couplers, trucks, paints, wood and plastic shapes, strips etc. I do this because the hobby shops closest to me don't. They sell mostly 3 rail O gauge with a smattering of RTR for HO and N all at list. My "distributors" are train shows and internet businesses. Enjoy Paul
I am my own LHS. I stock kits, couplers, trucks, paints, wood and plastic shapes, strips etc. I do this because the hobby shops closest to me don't. They sell mostly 3 rail O gauge with a smattering of RTR for HO and N all at list.
My "distributors" are train shows and internet businesses.
I find myself doing almost precisely this for myself, namely stockpiling specific things like track and model supplies that I won't be able to easily find at my local Micheal's if both the local train store and the local RC hobby shop go phoom.
In a twist to this story one of our local train shops, San Val, one day announced it was closing, there was much angst and gnashing of teeth in the hobby as they were a major source, but then it was gone, only not really. A short time latter the owner started selling stuff thru an ebay store and we came to find it was from his house, no store no overhead no employees no health care. He still sells pretty similar stuff to what he had in the store but now its all online.
I dread the day when the LHS guys decide its time to hang it up & retire to Florida but I also have to wonder, if everything is going online, why is the USPS still having money problems? You'd think they'd be doing OK with the online shipping mailing business, granted UPS and FedEx have big shares of that, but I have always found the USPS to be more reliable than either of the two private services. Just a thought.
Sad to see FHS go away, I found them quite by accident while walking around SF one day, turned a corner and hey! a hobby shop!
Have fun with your trains
I hear from a reliable source that they tried internet sales without success (also here they had different pricing in store than on the net which upset some long term customers).
alco_fan Franciscan was my local hobby shop for a few years when I lived in the city. Not to blame the victim completely, but many of their problems were self-inflicted in terms of inventory, failure to address the Internet, etc. This has been coming for a while.
Franciscan was my local hobby shop for a few years when I lived in the city. Not to blame the victim completely, but many of their problems were self-inflicted in terms of inventory, failure to address the Internet, etc. This has been coming for a while.
Alco,
I'll back you up on this....I have been there several times in the last few years...Current store is a small shop, not much in the way of stock and a bit of a depressing atmosphere...They were a rockin place many years ago and sort of slowly got worn down by it all.
I did visit them in the 1960's at a different location, much more stuff and better atmosphere...
We still have a few good shops left in the bay area including my favorite: The train shop in Santa Clara..
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site