wobbling in turnouts

[Anonymous]

I'm using Atlas Mark 3 #6 HO turnouts and Atlas code 100 ns flextrack. When trains go through there is a noticable wobble in the cars...locos too. I've smoothed the points, been meticulous in alignment...etc....it seems that when the wheels get to the frog, the spacing is large enough that the wheels drop into the space just a tiny amount...enough to make the cars wobble. Anyone got suggestions how to correct this? Do other brands of turnouts have this same situation? My rolling stock is not anything special at this point..mostly plastic wheel sets..would metal wheels, perhaps a larger diameter help out? I'm not looking for exact modeling of any prototype rolling stock, so I can definitely consider using whatever trucks/wheelsets would perform the best to create smooth performance and realistic operation...Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Dan

[rogerhensley]

I'm going to be a little cautious in this reply because you really didn't give a lot of info here. Small cars? Large cars? Long wheelbase? Short wheelbase?

Yes, your wheels may 'fall into' the frog of the Atlas MkIII #6. I use them, but can't say that I have noticed a wobble, but the frog is deep enough to handle the older non-RP25 (NMRA spec) wheelsets with the deep flanges. It is also a little wider than the true standard to accomodate a large variety of wheels and axles.

What can you do? The first thing is to be sure that your wheels are in gauge and match the NMRA Standards gauge. Too close wheels will fall more noticably than in gauge wheels. Too wide may 'pick the points' and cause derailments. Yes, metal wheels may help as the quality control is generally better on them than on most plastic.

You do not want to change out those wheels for ones with deeper flanges. That's another can of worms. Since the Atlas frogs are unpowered, if you are not having a problem with your locos stalling, then you can always fill in the frog a little. The Atlas design expects the wheel flange to support the wheel as it passes through the frog.

Are there other turnouts that don't have this problem? Yes, I'm sure that there are. I have a couple of old Tru-Scale hi-speed turnouts where the frog closes to the rail when switched and the wheel is always supported on the tread. There can be no wobble or bobble with them.

If you wish, try Shinohara or one of the other brands out there. You will pay more and some may not be available in code 100, but you do have other choices.

Roger Hensley
http://www.nmra.org/standards/

[Anonymous]

There's one other thing that might help. Check to see if the trucks are too loose on the car bolster. Try tightening them just a tad. You want them to rotate freely and have end to end up and down movement but they should not move up and down on the mounting screw. The bolster of the truck should stay in contact with the bolster of the car at all times but rotate freely. This won't cure the "drop" which in inherent to the turnout design but it might help with the "wobble" of the car when it passes over the turnout's frog. Like Roger said pay real close attention to the NMRA wheel standard too. Also make sure the wheels are clean. Some times "crud" builds up between the tread and the fillet of the wheel and can cause problems. Hope this helps...Vic

[Anonymous]

>>>Small cars? Large cars? Long wheelbase? Short >>>wheelbase?
everything wobbles, even if just slightly

>>>you can always fill in the frog a little. The >>>Atlas design expects the wheel flange to >>>support the wheel as it passes through the frog
Thanks, Roger, that was something that I had thought to try. Any suggetions on what to used to do the filling in? I don't want anything in there that can come loose and cause derailments since the turnouts are otherwise trouble free.

>>>Tru-Scale hi-speed turnouts where the frog >>>closes to the rail when switched and the wheel >>>is always supported on the tread.
I like the sound of that, I may do some shopping :)

[Anonymous]

Great tips, Vic...thanks..I'll check those things out. I also am looking at Roger's suggestion about filling in the frogs a little so that the wheel flanges could bottom out for support. ANy ideas on what I might fill in with? Maybe a little epoxy or something similar that would cure very hard

[gerryleone]

Try filling the frogs in with Squadron Body Putty (you'll find it in any hobby store that sells RC planes). You can put it in the frog, then gently run a few wheelsets through it to see if you're too high or low, then let it set. You can sand it after it hardens, and paint it, too.

-Gerry

[rogerhensley]

>>>
Any suggetions on what to used to do the filling in? I don't want anything in there that can come loose and cause derailments since the turnouts are otherwise trouble free.

I would use a low-temp soldier. That way it would still conduct electicity should you power the frog.

>>>Tru-Scale hi-speed turnouts where the frog
>>>closes to the rail when switched and the wheel
>>>is always supported on the tread.
>>>
I like the sound of that, I may do some shopping

They will be more expensive and they are power routing. That means that they power the line that you are switched to. You can end up with shorts so insulating the rails is necessary.

Roger Hensley

[rogerhensley]

I almost forgot, depending upon your experience level, you might want to take a look at:
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/ for some other information.

Roger Hensley
=== http://cid.railfn.net/eci_new.html ===

[Anonymous]

Golly Dan! In my years of model railroading I've never tried to fill one of those frogs in. Some one reccomended Squadron Putty but I sort of wonder if that will adhere to the metal frog as it is a plastic type filler. Epoxy does not sand and file well...its actually too soft!!. Perhaps an auto body filler like BONDO would work but you'd have to work fast cause it sets in about 10 mins but you can sand and file it. I guess my best thought on your problem is to try to cure as much of the "wooble" as possible by the things Roger and I have already written about and then let well enough alone as long as nothing is derailing in the turnouts. When you have a chance watch a real train going through a turnout/switch...the protype car "wobble" too..HA HA. Take Care and Have Fun....Vic

[BR60103]

Dan:
there are 2 considerations before you go filling in your frogs with whatever.
1) are all your flanges the same depth? If you mix, say, Rivarossi with Athearn, the Riv. have deeper flanges and will get lifted up or the Athearn will still wobble.
2) The problem really is that the tread of the wheel should stay on the wing rail until it gets picked up by the point of the frog. When the flangeway is too wide, it drops in the middle. Take a truck or an axle and run it through the frog to see what happens.
If you plan to fill the frog, you should buy or borrow an NMRA standards gauge to check what you're doing.
David

[Anonymous]

When you have a chance watch a real train going through a turnout/switch...the protype car "wobble" too..HA HA. Take Care and Have Fun....Vic

Hahaha!! Ok....I've decided to leave it alone and suffer the wobble. I DID check the truck mountings on a few of the cars and found that tightentning them down a little took a good deal of the wobble out...the remainder of the wobble is acceptable. I guess it just doesn't seem as dramatic when you see the prototypes running...their size naturally makes it look more normal. Also, weighting a few of the cars seems to settle them down too...at least they smooth out easier and do have a more natural look. Thanks Vic!

Dan

[Anonymous]

Glad it worked out! Take Care...Vic

[Anonymous]

ATLAS SWITCHES HAVE A ISOLATED FROG. THERE IS A SMALL GAP ON EACH APPROACH, (opened or closed). I USE THEM EXCLUSIVLY ON MY LAYOUT AND I FIND THAT ONLY A FEW CARS HAVE THE TENDENCY TO ROCK A LITTLE WHEN THEY PASS THROUGH. I THINK TIGHTENING THE TRUCKS AGAINST THE FRAME IS A GOOD IDEA. THEY STILL HAVE TO BE FREE TO TURN. I WOULD ALSO TRY TO TIGHTEN ONE END A LITTLE MORE THAN THE OTHER,A TRICK USED FOR YEARS TO KEEP CAR WOBBLING TO A MINIMUM. I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING THAT I WOULD WANT TO USE TO FILL IN THE GAPS. I THINK THAT WOULD COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU LATER. GOOD LUCK!!