Mark R.Track voltage should be between 13.8 and 14.2 volts (DCC). People running in this range have been running Athearn bulbs for years with no problems of them burning out. Mark.
Mark,Some been known to burn in DC as well.My GP60Ms headlight burnout in normal DC operation..
Athearn is well aware of this problem.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The Hobby is called MODEL RAILROADING.
A excellent way to learn by doing.
A good first working with the hands project, with tools.
In every case that I've come across where people complain about the short life of the Athearn bulbs, the culprit is usually the track voltage is set too high. I've witnessed some reading well over 18 volts !
Track voltage should be between 13.8 and 14.2 volts (DCC). People running in this range have been running Athearn bulbs for years with no problems of them burning out.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
ATSFGuy IMAO, LED's look out of place on a locomotive, good on cars, not trains I prefer the traditional yellow beam headlight, LEDS may give the moel that extra "touch" but end up being too bright, a medium glow is beter than a super bright glow.
IMAO, LED's look out of place on a locomotive, good on cars, not trains
I prefer the traditional yellow beam headlight, LEDS may give the moel that extra "touch" but end up being too bright, a medium glow is beter than a super bright glow.
Actually, the sunny-white or yeloglo LEDs look very realistic and prototypical with steam locomotives and early diesel and put out a nice focused beam. If brightness is the primary issue with LEDs, you could always add more resistance to reduce that, to a degree.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
ATSFGuyI prefer the traditional yellow beam headlight, LEDS may give the moel that extra "touch" but end up being too bright, a medium glow is beter than a super bright glow.
Depends..Steam had a yellow glow to white. Diesels have bright white lights based on FRA locomotive light rules that's why you can look down the track in broad daylight and see a engine's headlight a mile away on straight track..
Athearn Genesis and RTR models still have the old yellow beams, Atlas, Bachmann, Broadwaylimited, Kato, Intermountain, and Walthers models have the newer white beams.
I replaced the bulbs in my P2K with warm white LEDs and really like the results. I built some light boxes in one of my Athearn SD40's and used LED's there as well. It keeps the light where it needs to be and not making the cab look like it has a sunlamp on full blast. I just got some SMD's and plan on using them is tight places to see what can be done. It just takes a little more time to get these looking right (to me!).
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
Hmmm. My blue box Athearn GP38's have illuminated number boards.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Yeah, the light pipes can be a PITA. I'm pretty darn happy with the GP30 now, but it took some fiddling. But this is actually a lot of fun to do and very satisfying. I really enjoy using the SMD LEDs, too, on other projects, but cost is a factor there since I don't solder my own leads.
Of course, this is all easier if the number boards come set up for lighting. Give us the cosmetics, Athearn, they don't even need to be lit IMO. Those who just wanna look can sit and stare. Those of us who like to actually work on things will figure the rest out on our own.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
The half-lit too dark ones are because it's all off one big piece of clear plastic lit by just one bulb or LED. Clear plastic isn't a great light pipe, especially trying to go off at an angle - the straight ahead of the headlight is fine. There's more than one DCC project I've seen where part of the instructions include cutting that chunk of plastic apart and installing a pair of SMD LEDs just for the number boards.
As for the fire in the cab look some of them still have, though not as bad as the old Athearn Blue Box locos - painting the back end of all that plastic lens assebmly flat black will stop that. Some slight glow in the cab, at least on the engineer's side, would be right on, but not the whole thing glowing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
river_eagleI'm not a bjg fan of lit numberboards. and Athearn has done both lit boards and used LEDs and it didn't work out well. I've disconnected the boards on the bigboy and will also on the challenger and fef because the're too bright and look terrible lit.
If things are too bright, somewhere in those circuit boards there's a resistor -- and it needs more resistance. That's all it is. Don't know if there's wiring to the lights where you can plumb in additional resistance, but that would be one way to fix too bright lights that are LEDs.
With bulbs, it's usually easier to just get a different bulb, although you can also follow the rsistance route provided you keep a close eye on any excess heating on initial service. Of course, since Athearn's bulbs are tinier than anyone else's, that is just one more reason why Athearn actually makes things harder than they need to be. There's no easily available substitute in a different wattage that fits. One size fits all, says Athearn. You're comfortable in those new shoes, right?
I'm not a bjg fan of lit numberboards. and Athearn has done both lit boards and used LEDs and it didn't work out well.
I've disconnected the boards on the bigboy and will also on the challenger and fef because the're too bright and look terrible lit.
or the're too dim only rarely do they look right unlit boards look better real bulbs by the way
or the're too dim
only rarely do they look right unlit boards look better real bulbs by the way
only rarely do they look right
unlit boards look better real bulbs by the way
unlit boards look better
real bulbs by the way
gmpullmanSome of my early Proto 2000 GP-7s -9s -30s have beautifully done number boards and I love to see them all lit.
Yep, this isn't rocket science, although I understand that for Athearn LEDs are still a little too space-ageish
Lighted number boards are something that I DO want to see on my layout. One of the joys of DCC is being able to have engines idling with the headlights off and the number boards lit. There's plenty of shadowy areas on my layout where I can take in the visual pleasures of seeing all the neat lighting effects that recent technology has brought to the layout.
Some of my early Proto 2000 GP-7s -9s -30s have beautifully done number boards and I love to see them all lit.
When I do a decoder install I will frequently wire the number board LEDs directly to the track pickup so that they're ALWAYS on, both ends, regardless of the headlight.
When Athearn decided to do the Genesis F series they took the quick and easy route by contracting with Highliner to use their tooling. I'm going to take a stab at the reasoning for not having the openings for the numberboards since it would require TWO different shells for either the small side number boards (F-3s) or the bigger 45 degree number boards (later F-7s).
Broadway limited number boards do "leak" light around the edges but it can be fixed, and most are way too bright so I will place a bit of masking tape behind the opening to tone down the intensity and give the light a more "buff" color to it. (and what about the funky port hole windows BLI uses? they look like they should be on a submarine!)
I really doubt at this stage of the market saturation for the F series Genesis that Athearn would invest in any additional tooling costs to give us the option for illuminating the number boards.
Too bad...
Take care, Ed
I agree that the bulbs are crap..........but the plastic they use is a lot worse.......hardly any glue/adhesive will work on it......absolute CRAP!
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
Yeah, that's exactly the size of the problem. I've heard of folks getting the bulbs from Athearn, not sure the preice point. I have some slavaged Athearn bulbs from locos I converted to LEDs, but they're precious as gold until I hear they can be had cheap somewhere.
The Athearn incandescent bulb is 1.5 volts and is rated 12 to 16 ma, according to Athearn.
The diameter of the Athearn bulb is 1.34 mm.
The Miniatronics 1.5 volt bulb measures 1.2 mm, too small for the Athearn bulb housing.
The other Miniatronics 1.5 volt bulb measures 1.7 mm, too large for the Athearn bulb housing.
So, replacing Athearn bulbs with Miniatronics bulbs is a bit of a challenge.
Rich
Alton Junction
I personally am a fan of night time operation and it seems out of my 27 locomotives, my Athearn locomotives are the only ones that are not properly lit. I may just have to do some handy work to get boards lighted. I agree with everyone that the lights in the Athearn locomotives are terrible.I have had the lights go out in two of my SD70Ace's and my MP15AC.
AntonioFP45Imho, lighted numberboards add an additional depth of realism to scale locomotives and it's certainly a feature that I appreciate and would prefer to have. But as the saying goes......"Be careful what you ask for.".......... Yes, some of the other manufacturers have included lighted numberboards but if we ask Athearn to start including this feature in future releases we know that it's going to cost the company some additonal $$. Even if it's a small amount, it's doubtful that they're going to want to absorb that cost, so chances are that the costs will be passed on to customers.
Yeah, I'm not so sure about that one. Any smart outfit looking forward to being around and selling product needs to invest a certain sum every year to keep up with the times, take advanatge of new technology, provide features customers want, etc. If it does NOT set aside such money, well you're just Tyco ( OK, picking in Tyco, even they probably do this)
Now some may argue the customers pay for. Well, sure, they do, otherwise how does Athearn stay in business. But if Atheran sits around waiting for customers to throw in a couple of extra bucks each time for the "improvement fund" then Atheran is going to be in the ditch. Make the right investments and they pay off manyfold. Hit a sinker and that's not the customers' fault.
That said, let's disambiguate the lighting methods argument from the lightable number boards argument. Heck, Athearn will still be putting them fragile little things with the light span of a lightning bug into locos in 2100 for all I know. One thing at a time, Rome wasn't built in a day, etc, etc.
I'd argue the art of the numberboard should be settled. P2K did this roughly 20 years ago, or close to that, as my GP30s are about that old.It's now running LEDs and I'd like to cut down the cab light just a little more, but those old light bars are tricky. But the number board itself is a work of art. Give that at least to the modeler and I'd be happy. I'll figure out how to light it.
Here it is in darkened staging: In the same consist, I have this GP30 set up so the numberboards are on Dim. The headlight and number boards are all on the same light tube/same source, so this works well with lots of resistance like I usually put in my headlights (2k to 3k ohm). This later P2K Geep still has the original bulbs, but it looks really sweet and not obstrusive, even though clearly visible. That might be slightly brighter than real, but works for me. Heck, even BLI can get this right. Here's a nice set of LEDs lighting up the obs/dome from the CZ. As for the LED being most important, well, yeah, sorta. Right now I'm using some warm white cone-refelctor LEDs I got from some Target sets. I do like to use something with good color, so if you can't find 'em cheap, still find 'em. What I find most critical is using LOTS of resistance. 1K? No way is that enough in most cases. I typically use at least 2k and I go up from there. That gives you a nice mellow glow and you can adjust as needed. And one easy way to get all your lights looking more mellow -- and give those Athearn lightning bugs a few more days of life -- is to dial down your DCC system setting to 12.5 volts. Or even just 13.5 volts if you're skeered to try lower. You might really like the resulst. Check the Command Station Settings section of you handbook.
Here it is in darkened staging:
In the same consist, I have this GP30 set up so the numberboards are on Dim. The headlight and number boards are all on the same light tube/same source, so this works well with lots of resistance like I usually put in my headlights (2k to 3k ohm). This later P2K Geep still has the original bulbs, but it looks really sweet and not obstrusive, even though clearly visible. That might be slightly brighter than real, but works for me. Heck, even BLI can get this right. Here's a nice set of LEDs lighting up the obs/dome from the CZ. As for the LED being most important, well, yeah, sorta. Right now I'm using some warm white cone-refelctor LEDs I got from some Target sets. I do like to use something with good color, so if you can't find 'em cheap, still find 'em. What I find most critical is using LOTS of resistance. 1K? No way is that enough in most cases. I typically use at least 2k and I go up from there. That gives you a nice mellow glow and you can adjust as needed. And one easy way to get all your lights looking more mellow -- and give those Athearn lightning bugs a few more days of life -- is to dial down your DCC system setting to 12.5 volts. Or even just 13.5 volts if you're skeered to try lower. You might really like the resulst. Check the Command Station Settings section of you handbook.
In the same consist, I have this GP30 set up so the numberboards are on Dim. The headlight and number boards are all on the same light tube/same source, so this works well with lots of resistance like I usually put in my headlights (2k to 3k ohm).
This later P2K Geep still has the original bulbs, but it looks really sweet and not obstrusive, even though clearly visible. That might be slightly brighter than real, but works for me. Heck, even BLI can get this right. Here's a nice set of LEDs lighting up the obs/dome from the CZ. As for the LED being most important, well, yeah, sorta. Right now I'm using some warm white cone-refelctor LEDs I got from some Target sets. I do like to use something with good color, so if you can't find 'em cheap, still find 'em. What I find most critical is using LOTS of resistance. 1K? No way is that enough in most cases. I typically use at least 2k and I go up from there. That gives you a nice mellow glow and you can adjust as needed. And one easy way to get all your lights looking more mellow -- and give those Athearn lightning bugs a few more days of life -- is to dial down your DCC system setting to 12.5 volts. Or even just 13.5 volts if you're skeered to try lower. You might really like the resulst. Check the Command Station Settings section of you handbook.
This later P2K Geep still has the original bulbs, but it looks really sweet and not obstrusive, even though clearly visible. That might be slightly brighter than real, but works for me.
Heck, even BLI can get this right. Here's a nice set of LEDs lighting up the obs/dome from the CZ. As for the LED being most important, well, yeah, sorta. Right now I'm using some warm white cone-refelctor LEDs I got from some Target sets. I do like to use something with good color, so if you can't find 'em cheap, still find 'em. What I find most critical is using LOTS of resistance. 1K? No way is that enough in most cases. I typically use at least 2k and I go up from there. That gives you a nice mellow glow and you can adjust as needed. And one easy way to get all your lights looking more mellow -- and give those Athearn lightning bugs a few more days of life -- is to dial down your DCC system setting to 12.5 volts. Or even just 13.5 volts if you're skeered to try lower. You might really like the resulst. Check the Command Station Settings section of you handbook.
Heck, even BLI can get this right. Here's a nice set of LEDs lighting up the obs/dome from the CZ.
As for the LED being most important, well, yeah, sorta. Right now I'm using some warm white cone-refelctor LEDs I got from some Target sets. I do like to use something with good color, so if you can't find 'em cheap, still find 'em. What I find most critical is using LOTS of resistance. 1K? No way is that enough in most cases. I typically use at least 2k and I go up from there. That gives you a nice mellow glow and you can adjust as needed. And one easy way to get all your lights looking more mellow -- and give those Athearn lightning bugs a few more days of life -- is to dial down your DCC system setting to 12.5 volts. Or even just 13.5 volts if you're skeered to try lower. You might really like the resulst. Check the Command Station Settings section of you handbook.
As for the LED being most important, well, yeah, sorta. Right now I'm using some warm white cone-refelctor LEDs I got from some Target sets. I do like to use something with good color, so if you can't find 'em cheap, still find 'em.
What I find most critical is using LOTS of resistance. 1K? No way is that enough in most cases. I typically use at least 2k and I go up from there. That gives you a nice mellow glow and you can adjust as needed.
And one easy way to get all your lights looking more mellow -- and give those Athearn lightning bugs a few more days of life -- is to dial down your DCC system setting to 12.5 volts. Or even just 13.5 volts if you're skeered to try lower. You might really like the resulst. Check the Command Station Settings section of you handbook.
As of now I more concerned with Athearn's on going QC problems then number boards.As far as the lights both of my GP60Ms lights has burned out.
They was nice bright lights but,no longer.
I agree with the OP's criticism of Atheran's lighting, but not for the numberboard. I agree with some, I actually like the painted numberboards...less complicated. Sometimes, the light bezel that other producers use doesn't quite keep the light from shining through unintended sides of the bezel, which spoils the effect from certain angles.
My complaint about Athearn is the dim and low life-expectancy of the incandescent bulbs they use for headlights. LED's are much better.
And here Athearn caters to detail oriented modelers who may pay a premium for RTR products...not necessarily kit builders.
But what an oxymoron...a modeler who tends to not want the hassle of buying a kit, has to learn how to fiddle with replacing light bulbs...small pieces in tight areas.
Does Athearn not see this problem and how it frustrates their own customer base?
- Douglas
Paul is correct. Often times lit numberboards appear much dimmer than head, class, gyra, Mars, and ditch lights. However, even during daylight hours they can be seen under the right conditions as on this RF&P unit:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2677658
Imho, lighted numberboards add an additional depth of realism to scale locomotives and it's certainly a feature that I appreciate and would prefer to have.
But as the saying goes......"Be careful what you ask for."..........
Yes, some of the other manufacturers have included lighted numberboards but if we ask Athearn to start including this feature in future releases we know that it's going to cost the company some additonal $$. Even if it's a small amount, it's doubtful that they're going to want to absorb that cost, so chances are that the costs will be passed on to customers.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Just shows Athearn is not keeping up with the rest of the players.
The Rapido FP9's not only come with lite number boards but two colour classification lights as well. The Canadian version even comes with a stobe light mounted on its roof.
I recently saw the latest EMD F unit from Bowser (Stewart) their level of detail certailnly rivals Athearns. For the longest time the Stewart locomotives were known for minimum detail but a great running motor.
I have not seen the latest from Intermountain but would be very surprised if they have not kept up their detail level. I have some of their later EMD F units and am very impressed, as good as Athearn any time.
Bulbs look more realistic thant he WRONG LED, but use the RIGHT LED and everything looks fine.
Bachmann, I'm looking at you, for the bright bluish-which LEDs in the E33 electrics, or Stewart, for the ORANGE LEDs in the Baldwin switchers. Or Yellow ones in the F units.
The technology is there, in a cost of pennies per unit in small quantities, from the same country most models are now assembled in. No excuse.
The problem isn't that Athearn is using bulbs. Bulbs look more realistic than LED's, so I can understand why Athearn continues to use them. The real problem is that Athearn is using cheap bulbs and apparently running them at max voltage which equals short life span. I've had Minitronics 1.5v 30ma bulbs I've put in engines in the 1990's that are still operating just fine today, but then I knock down the voltage a bit more than 1.5v with a slightly larger resistor. It's slightly dimmer, but lasts longer.
Paul A. Cutler III
More of a concern to me is why Athearn is still using those cheap incandescent bulbs that so frequently fail instead of using LEDs.
The absence of bright lighted numberboards on Athearn locos may be related to the fact that real locomotives don't actually have bright lighted numberboards. Oh, they're lit all right, but bright they are not. In daylight conditions, I can't even tell if they are lit or not on the prototype. Can you?
The headlights and ditchlights are obviously on, but I can't tell if the numberboards in this shot are lighted in this photo. And this is typical. Do a quick Google image search, and just try and find brightly lit numberboards in daylight.It would have to be either at night or on a dark gloomy day before one could see bright lighted numberboards. Since I personally don't operate in the dark much (nor do I operate in the rain or snow), the lack of lit numberboards doesn't bother me at all. If one did have night ops or model winter days, then I can see the concern, but otherwise it's a non-issue.
I would just like to express some of my thoughts regarding Athearn HO locomotives. I have recently been talking with several modelers about Athearn products and we have noticed that Athearn is on of the only manufacturers that doesn't install lighted number boards on diesel locomotives. This particular issue has come up when purchasing my UP Heritage fleet and the new ES44AC. I love Athearn's detail but I am countered with the fact that MTH, Intermountain, BLI, Atlas, and Kato all have bright lighted number boards and Athearn is simply behind in this department. I feel that adding lighted number boards, Athearn locomotives will become even better then they currently are.