dknelson Maybe my operating hopper is not Revell since it does not resemble the above poster's summary of how they worked. Maybe someone else made one too. I forgot about the Ulrich metal hoppers and their operating doors but my recollection (and I have a few on the layout) is that over time those little latches would fail just like the Athearn plastic. Dave Nelson
Dave,
The doors on the Ulrich twin hoppers have latches. Rather than a friction fit, I think they lift up a little to unlatch. It's been awhile since I've looked at mine. I was, however, referring to the Ulrich triples. On those, there's a spring or springs to keep the doors shut. And no latches. The doors, incidentally, are all linked together--they all open and close together. And they operate "remotely"--hands free.
On the Revell car, the hopper bottom was spring loaded "up". The two sidearms would engage in cams on the side of the walls of the coal ramp, and would get pulled down by same as the car was shoved in.
The Tyco cars had sorta-heavy metal doors that were held shut by gravity. They weren't real hopper doors, as they spread open sideways by a special ramp. One nice thing about them was that they'd work as a cut of pull-through cars. The Revell and Ulrich would only work one at a time on a stub siding.
I liked the Ulrich triples, 'cause the operating feature was pretty much hidden and didn't detract from the car's looks. And being metal, it has a really nice heft that always made me feel it was a substantial piece of machinery. Unfortunately, it looks pretty crude today. But so does everything else made back then. I was around when they first came out, and I thought they were THE best freight car anyone made.
Ed
I was going to suggest using Kato Uni track in areas that are going to be inaccessible
Joe Staten Island West
Well, it was worth a discussion anyway. Thanks for the words.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Jimmy_Braum Perhaps I didn't explain enough...there are spots on a layout where it would be fairly challenging to lay ballast by hand. I don't need a realistic car, I just need something that can dump it where there is close clearance (Our Club decided to make the track operational and the tunnels, bridges,etc.
Perhaps I didn't explain enough...there are spots on a layout where it would be fairly challenging to lay ballast by hand. I don't need a realistic car, I just need something that can dump it where there is close clearance (Our Club decided to make the track operational and the tunnels, bridges,etc.
Continuing on the theme "Answering a question nobody asked":
My neighbor had the Revell hopper car and ramp. The car had two (breakable) arms out the side that would be engaged with the ramp as the car was shoved in. The arms were connected to the hopper bottom, and it was thus lowered.
http://www.hoseeker.net/revellinformation/Revell1959infopage12.jpg
Not mentioned was the excellent Ulrich triple hopper. Through a concealed linkage, all three doors would open when the car was pushed towards an in-track operating trip-pin.
http://www.hoseeker.net/Ulrich/ulrickflier7.jpg
Oh, yeah. (Not) speaking of ballast cars, Model Engineering Works made an operating side-dump car. Well, a manual operating one. As your giant fingers tipped the bed, a linkage would lift up the bed sides so the load could slide out.
http://www.hoseeker.net/mew/modelengineeringworks12yardsidedumpcarpg2.jpg
But wait, there's more. Model Die Casting (Roundhouse) made a center dump ballast car that was "tripped" by pushing down on levers on the lower part of the side of the car. There were big handwheels that wound a chain (as I recall) that pulled the doors closed.
I can't find an online photo of this one, but I've got one out in the garage in a box. I think later ones were made of plastic and/or were not operating.
Update. Found one:
http://www.bobstoyshow.com/93.JPG
This concludes our diversion from the actual question.
Hi, Jimmy
If the areas you want to ballast are inaccessable then... why bother? I mean, has the rail and ties been painted? Once the ballast is down there's lots of fussing needed to get it leveled, settled into the ties and off the rail.
THEN you're going to have to make a wet water sprayer car, (weed sprayer?) then a matte medium dripper car (a CMX track cleaner with out the pad might work here!)
SO what I'm getting at is if the right of way is THAT inaccessable then dispense with the ballast and consider the scene as "off world." ie. not part of the actual scene.
Take care, ED
I worked a ballast train between Reno NV and Truckee CA with the UP...it was quite an experience. 70 tons per car and a very regulated flow between opening the doors as needed and the train speed. All the forces and dynamics involved just won't translate into scale. Ballast in scale behaves more like a liquid than crushed rock. I think you'll just end up with a mess, ballast pouring out like water in one place. I use kitchen utensils and artist tools for ballating in awkward places. The car you have...do it up really nice and run it around full of ballast. The color you looking at...well, I can't suggest anything there.
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
Over the years there have been attempts to create working hopper cars in HO. In theory the Athearn Blue Box 4-bay hopper car (the B&O one) had "working" doors that would open when tripped, but you had to snap the doors shut again by hand, and after a few times the plastic latch would fail and the doors tended to hang loosely unless cemented in place anyway. I suspect Athearn was going to come up with a coal unloader to go with their coal/sand loader. If they ever did I cannot find it in my old catalogs or on HO Seeker.
Revell had an operating CB&Q two bay hopper car and if memory serves, the entire bottom of the car was spring loaded, a magnet would pull it down, and the sand or coal would spill out into the waiting bin below.
http://www.hoseeker.org/revellinformation/Revell1959infopage12.jpg
I have one of those Revell cars somewhere (bought used) but I never had the unloading accessory. The interior of the car gives away the need to alter scale appearance in favor of operating possibilities. Perhaps a fair tradeoff.
Tyco had something similar in its line in the mid 1960s (when Tyco was trainset quality but not bad quality). Their old catalog shows a Virginian hopper.
Lionel had an operating side dump car, of the kind often used for ballast, in its HO line in the mid 1960s as well. I suspect it borrowed from their O line in nature and probably just flipped over in a toylike manner.
I think the common theme to all these cars is that they needed something special and not particularly realistic looking in the area where they were expected to dump the load, and sometimes the dumping mechanism itself introduced a degree of non-scale compromise into the appearance that would be difficult to retro fit yourself into the very nicely done Bowser castings. And the dumping action itself was hardly realistic as I recall. You can't scale intertia.
But to answer your precise question, it can be done because it has been done, but it needs a specially designed car. With the tiny servo motors that are out there now, I am confident that in not too many years there will be operating hoppers and side dump cars.
But all is not lost. If you seek a ballast dumping scene on your layout, think about what ballast dumping really looks like -- at least initially it is huge cloud of dust, and you cannot see the ballast falling due to the dust.
I wonder if it would be possible to have some small tubes in an area of track with some sort of dust that could be pumped or squeezed out of them when the ballast car is parked exactly there. It could be manual or motorized. It could create the illusion of a working ballast load being dumped with a little explosion of dust. The main objection would be to introducing a dust or grit of any sort in the vicinity of wheel and axle bearings. Dry ice smoke? Hmmmm.
Or perhaps the ballast you seek to dump could be pumped from those little tubes -- hey, if you use Arizona Rock & Mineral ballast that creates its own dust! Combined with the right sound effects the viewer would see the car stop, the sound of dumping rock, and suddenly rock would appear to the sides of the track via the little tubes. Well that is all theory and vaporware but my own feeling is that given the car you are working with, creating an illusion of dumping might well be as close as you come to what you seek.
Dave Nelson
I'm w/ Cacole on this one. Would end up w/ quite the mess.
If you were "staging" a scene, maybe, but a static display need not actually work.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
If you've ever seen a real ballast car at work, you should know that they dump a LOT of ballast, which then must be spread by a regulator and tamped by a ballast tamper.
If you're trying to create a model ballast car that will spread ballast on a layout and not need any futher work, I think you're going to be very disappointed in the results.
Has anyone ever built a working Ballast car? I'm Buying an undec Bowser kit from Micromark, and planning to do it up as a NS MOW car? Also, does anyone know of a color that would match the Orange they use?