Unfortunately it is a sign of the times. The mom and pop stores are slowly disappearing and it isn't only the internet - it's places like Walmart, Meijer here in Michigan and similar big box stores that are one stop shops and the little guy can't compete. Also, and I have said this before when this topic comes up, my LHS isn't customer friendly. The 'train guy' is rude, most generally wrong in his information and is far more interested in looking at his computer screen than in helping me or any other customer that comes in. Even though it's 5 miles away I would rather drive 35 miles to Bridgeport where they have a better selection and are far more customer friendly. True, internet shopping has taken a toll but if this LHS isn't willing to be helpful to its customer base then we will go elsewhere.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
Wow I'm very disheartin to hear this, that was the store I went to when I was younger and still lived in VA. :(
That being said I kinda got spoiled in Knoxville. We have a HobbyTownUSA here that actually focuses at least 25%-30% of the store on Model Railroading. (I hear this is actually rare for them). It's nice to when they need to sell something that's been taking up shelving, they cut the price in half. I've gotten some nice Atlas cars for under $12
I went to Chesterfield hobbies at least once a week just before closing time for the past couple of years. I tried to always buy something even it was only for a few bucks. The discussion about dead stock was sage. Chesterfield had some stuff from Bob's hobby shop that closed several years ago that I used to see in the 70's!!
Bob's was open from the Early 60's until, I think around 2000. It was a fabulous place. Chesterflied wound up with a lot of Bob's older dead stock, (mostly bits and bob's) like Cal scale castings, etc. Before Bob's it was Keels hobby shop that was 'the' Richmond train store (40's and 50's). I would go to Chesterfield just to root through the endless number of "behind the counter" boxes stuffed with little treasures from years ago. Gone are them days.
As a Narrow Gauge guy, no one ever has what I want! (Bob's used to, though) Now, only the giant train shows and a few online specialty places ever have anyhting I need or want.
Still, the LHS in its best days was a warm and cozy place for model rails. The LHS was an institution that has pretty much seen its day and through no fault of its own or that of the buying public. The entire world's shopping dynamic has changed almost overnight as have the people themselves. Sad in a way, but things do change.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
I don't miss LHS's because I never went to one.
As a kid my father and I at Christmas time went to a local hardware store that sold Lionel trains and I picked out new things for the "Trains".
When I started my HO layout I learned the names of on line retailers from this forum. Everything other than a few items from Wal-Mart and Michaels have been bought on line.
When I shop on line and see the number of items and quantities that these merchants stock it is easy to see why a LHS doesn't have a future.
As has been said the LHS is going the way of the small retailers such as mom and pop grocery stores, laundries, meat shops, dry cleaners, camera stores, etc.
Years and years ago there were 13 oil distributors in my area and now there are 3.
The big get bigger and the small disappear.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
The thing is, if ready to run cars and ready-built structures are taking over the hobby, seemingly a LHS should still be able to survive if not thrive by selling those things, if that is where those customers would go to buy them.
The stuff for scratch buillders and kit builders didn't necessarily make the LHS a success back in the day, for that matter. You make money by going where the numbers are, and customers served above and beyond that are almost a bonus. As unfortunate as the situation was when the market was glutted with crappy train sets with crappy couplers that made most purchasers drop the hobby almost instantly -- those may well have been the customers that made the shops a success and enabled them to cater to us as well.
My point, which I made earlier, is that the LHS needs a solid number of truly steady customers who spend significant money on a reasonably regular basis. Any type of store needs that. If internet sales and traveling train shows make that situation unlikely, and are filling the needs of the customers, then things look bleak for the LHS (but not necessarily for the hobby) even if all us became dedicated scratchbuilders. If the relative drop in interested new comers is the problem, then again things may look bleak for the LHS but not necessarily for the hobby as such.
Dave Nelson
wp8thsub Every thread like this is loaded with carping about how great the hobby was back in the good old days and how nobody wants to build anything now. Check out layout tours, the pages of magazines, and what you see on this forum and elsewhere. Tell me again how layouts today aren't better.
Apples to plums..We didn't have the scenery material we have today nor did we have photo shop to help fake the photo back then either.
Another side of the coin is us younger modelers "ruin" and was "death bringers" the hobby back then by embracing the very things we take for granted today.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
We used to have a LHS here (Binghamton, NY area) till about 2 years ago, when the owners decided they'd rather turn the business into an online operation that's run out of their home. Another train store went under about the same time, and an RC/plastic model store died this past spring. The nearest store is at least 35 miles east of me; I went there once, and wasn't impressed (mainly because I'm not a Lionel modeler, and they're heavily into Lionel products). Until I got married, I used to take several trips a year to English's down in the Williamsport area (funny how that can put a damper on hobbies! :p). I still try and make it down there to see what's new a couple times a year, though. And I sometimes stop by Lantz's in Horseheads when I'm visiting family. Other than that, it's slim pickings in this area because so many stores have closed.
It's a shame that I can't just pop in to a local store and buy things anymore, because A LOT of the remaining stores don't carry all the small parts they used to. Likely, this is due to manufacturers going out of business, as well as business owners not wanting a lot of dead inventory in the way of detail parts or resin kits that relatively few people want to buy. Still, if the merchandise I want or need isn't available, it's going to impede my enjoyment of the hobby. If that happens to enough people, it'll harm the hobby as a whole because people will get frustrated and walk away.
Last, I too am sorry to hear Chesterfield went under. I was able to stop there 2 or 3 times over the years. They were friendly and had a lot of neat things.
andrechapelonThe difference between then and now is that the hobby has advanced to the point where a whole army of the "great unwashed" can enter the hobby should they choose to do so.
Exactly right. Every thread like this is loaded with carping about how great the hobby was back in the good old days and how nobody wants to build anything now. Check out layout tours, the pages of magazines, and what you see on this forum and elsewhere. Tell me again how layouts today aren't better.
Back then you had to develop a whole range of skills to acquire decent models of most things, or to have equipement that ran well. Most hobbyists never did. Many of them got frustrated and left for easier pursuits. The same guys today can have better models with less effort, which can equal less frustration and a greater motivation to stick around. People can gain in-depth skill out of a desire to, not out of absolute necessity. That's an improvement, not a cause for gnashing of teeth.
I used to kitbash and superdetail all my locos and rebuilt all the mechanisms. I did the same with a large percentage of my freight cars. I rarely do that anymore since I can buy RTR models that are better than the ones I could make myself. Now I can utilize my hobby time to do other things I'd rather do.
...I refuse to buy commercial. Even though it's higher quality. Not to mention less expensive (but you'll never get me to say that out loud).
I'll say it. And IF you want to make the effort, there is still a huge selection of models that require serious model building. Some of us should perhaps quit whining and build one. While we're at it, we can stop begrudging our fellow modelers the ability to have a satisfying hobby experience without doing so.
Rob Spangler
andrechapelonThe only right way to split firewood is manually.
I would rather not emulate Dan'l Boone..
This would be my choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f-D0yAfu9c
No desire to built a kit from scratch or with scratch building materials seems to be the "new" order of the day. New modelers want those Woodland Scenics kits now which are already done for the consumer and unfortunately they are willing to pay the higher prices to obtain them.
Has it ever occurred to you that if people scratchbuilt things back in the dim past of the hobby it was because they had to? If something's not available, you basically have two choices, do without or do it yourself. Things were not available back then. PERIOD. For all the fulmination 50-60 years ago about how things were ruining the hobby, the people who were doing the complaining were stocking up on newly available items in secret. Of course, all the while, they were complaining about the newly found availability of items because it would allow the "great unwashed" in. Oh, the horror of it all. The difference between then and now is that the hobby has advanced to the point where a whole army of the "great unwashed" can enter the hobby should they choose to do so.
Imagine the contempt of old car owners when the self-starter became common and you no longer had to risk a broken arm by hand cranking an engine. And how about heaters? Man people who have to have heaters in their cars are wusses. Back in the good old days when I was growing up, heaters were optional equipment and a well-equipped car had a radio (AM and also optional), heater and white sidewalls. Floors were covered with rubber mats. Windows had to be hand cranked up and down. Air conditioning? Forget about it Rich man's option and only for people with on over-developed sense of entitlement If you really had to keep your car cool, you bought an aftermarket swamp cooler (didn't work all that well outside the dry Southwest). http://tinyurl.com/m4loaq9 Of course, those are store bought models. Real men build their own http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUhs_1puHk0
And how about all those power tools now available to anyone with a few bucks? Real handy men use manual tools. Real foresters uses axes and handsaws. The only right way to split firewood is manually. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pozNXKDUiFw.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go scratcbuild a gasket to fix that %^%#@ leaking faucet, which, by the way, is also scratchbuilt.
Tomorrow I'm firing several hundred tiles made from clay I dug my self with a home made shovel. We need a new kitchen floor and I refuse to buy commercial.
Even though it's higher quality.
Not to mention less expensive (but you'll never get me to say that out loud).
Andre
Larry,
Thanks, Tried to sneak that in.
Frank
zstripecovered hoppers and tank cars, would not be owned by the PRR.
Frank PRR owned covered hoppers,gons,flats,open hoppers,ore cars and of course lots of boxcars-including "REA/Express" service boxcars..
Jimmy_Braum,
Well I guess if you just want to run cars,owned by Pennsylvania, but they will probably be mostly boxcars, covered hoppers and tank cars, would not be owned by the PRR. I thought you wanted to build up your fleet.
Bowser and Accurail are what I buy, but Accurail almost never has any Pennsylvania equipment in stock for what I need. Thanks for the advice though.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Geared SteamActually I don't see any post that blamed the younger generation for anything, you seem to be reading more into it that what there is.
Where are we going? The fade seems to be that all young, prospective model railroaders want everything already immaculated detailed by the company, straight out-of-the-box and able to be immediately placed on their layout. No desire to built a kit from scratch or with scratch building materials seems to be the "new" order of the day. New modelers want those Woodland Scenics kits now which are already done for the consumer and unfortunately they are willing to pay the higher prices to obtain them. Unfortunately, this mentality drives the cost of all model railroad items up to the point that individuals cannot even enter the hobby without taking out a loan. I guess this new transition which I call, "Model Railroading for America, the New Three World Country" is the"culturally revelant," "order of the day."
The OP Wrote this in his post. That's what I responded to. Please read the posts before you comment on other's reply
Joe C
GP-9_Man11786Great Escape of Greenville
Russell
dominic c Boy some of these responses are kind of cold. Hurray for the old folks whose layouts don't need anything else and are unsympathetic to someone's sorrow. This poor guy was to blame for not being at the hobby shop the past few months. Shame on you for not being there lately and for having a life. And for the OP, I don't think you should blame the younger generation of MR's for higher prices due to right out of the box insistence. Joe C
Boy some of these responses are kind of cold. Hurray for the old folks whose layouts don't need anything else and are unsympathetic to someone's sorrow. This poor guy was to blame for not being at the hobby shop the past few months. Shame on you for not being there lately and for having a life. And for the OP, I don't think you should blame the younger generation of MR's for higher prices due to right out of the box insistence.
Actually I don't see any post that blamed the younger generation for anything, you seem to be reading more into it that what there is.
I would like someone to actually prove to me the hobby is dying, with facts instead of gut reactions that "I see no kids at train shows"
Obviously retail is changing, where it ends up is anyones guess, but to believe the hobby is dying has been rehashed here hundreds of times, and yet, here we are, still modeling,
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/139030.aspx?page=1
While some of you can continue to feel gloomy, the rest of us will continue to model, and you're welcome to join in when you realize the world isn't ending.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Check out Accurail kits, you can get two for the price of one RTR. They are not hard at all to assemble and have good detail.
22 year old here who buys Bowser hopper car kits, walthers cornerstone kits, and will only buy something assembled if I can't find a kit (or if it is a locomotive). I personally wish some company would create an "economy line" of equipment... like a step above the Tyco stuff fellow club members had, but not all the way to the broadway detail and was more affordable for those just starting out. Like "Lifelike" used to be. Yes, I do shop local when I can, but being in the "rustbucket" and the local walmart drove everything out of business around here for a long time (we just started getting a rash of new small stores in the last year for the first time since US Steel pulled out of the neighboring towns of Donora and McKeesport), so I sadly have to buy online, or wait for a local trainshow.
There are three LHSs in the Greenville - Spartanburg area. Unfortunately the closest one, Great Escape of Spartanburg carries little train stuff anymore. The best of the three IMHO, Blue Ridge Hobbies has a great selection of stuff in HO and N, but they're hours are very irregular and they're never open when I'm off. Great Escape of Greenville has a great selection of train and scenery stuff and I will definitly try to give them my business even i it means fighting the traffic on I-85, I-385 and unPleasantburg Drive.
Some have noted earlier the the LHS needs to be the instant gratification guy, need to have basic items in stock and the "we don't have it but we can order it for you" isn't going to cut it. However, it may not be the LHS's fault that items, track in particular, are not in stock. The production issues companies like Atlas are having are well-known and the LHS can't stock products they can't obtain.
One reason I like the LHS over mail order is the personal touch you get. I purchased a locomotive from one of the shops in my area. It was defective. I returned it, they allowed me to exchange it. The locomotive I wanted to exchange it for was a bit more expensive but I was willing to pay the difference. The shop gave me a discount. How many mail-order companies would do that?
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
Well I can HONESTLY tell you I'm not to blame. I visit a hobby shop every two weeks and usually spend anywhere between 2 to 5 hundred dollars each visit. I should say I use to. I have 5 hobby shops within an hours drive from me. My problem is finding things I need. Simple things like track, turnouts, building kits and scenery items. It seems to me that shops tend to carry mostly Ready to Run Items like box cars, locomotives etc but not the items your new model railroader needs to work on his layout. Why can't a shop carry the simple things? I found a shop on the internet that has all the stuff I need and now I only order through them now. If hobby shops want to stay open they will need to carry the basic items and get with the times and start selling over the internet. I'm also done with ordering. I'm not going to order a bottle of Woodlands Scenic ballast or 10 pieces of track and wait for a month for it to come in anymore. These items should always be in stock. Sorry mom and pop but you have lost my business.
Well, I'm to blame too. I spend most my dollars online because that's where the stuff is for me. I'm in rural eastern AZ. The closest LHS is 50 miles away (EWS Hobbies) and frankly has been in business now longer than I expected after having opened a few years ago. Half the store is dedicated to RC stuff, the other half is puzzles and painting stuff, and one tiny isle of N and HO items,,, you know, some ballast, turf, a right and left turnout, people figures, tunnel portals, a train set or two, you get the idea. When I get over there, and not every time, but when I can, I go in and browse, and if I can (money is tight), I try to pick SOMETHING up. Lately it's been scenery stuff, turf and foliage. His prices aren't out of line at compared to what I would pay with shipping somewhere. My last purchase was actually an order for some course turf in conifer green. He could get it in the shaker bottle, and when it was done it cost my a little over $7! And he called me when it came in.
Same thing with Roy's Train World or An Affair With Trains down in the Phoenix area. I don't get there very often at all but when I do I try to schedule in a bit of time to visit at least one of them, and again but a little something.
Granted, these "little something's" most likely aren't going to make their bottom line for the day, but I try to add to it if I can. They fill a spot for me for things like small styrene sheets or balsa wood that's close to scale lumber, misc rail pieces for guard rails... things like that. It's nice to have these places to go to and look, which spawns ideas!
I'm a couple weeks shy of 47 and remember when I was young the amount of hobby shops and the train items they carried then and I miss that. Yes, today's society, on-line buying (I'm guilty too) and all that adds up, but it's still sad to see another shop close!
Keep your heads up and happy RR'ing!
Duane
BRAKIE Burlington Northern #24 What's next we lack patience, or skill, or the artistic ability? sheesh... Gary,My dad's generation of modelers was kit builders and scratchbuilders that welcome RTR brass steam engines and yet there was those that claim those RTR engines will doom the craftsmanship of the hobby. Then when RTR cars and locomotives showed up from several manufacturers the cry as the younger generation was "to lazy to build a locomotive kit and wants everything handed to them built" and "the hobby is doom because of RTR and shake the box kits".. That's what my generation was told in the 60s. So whats new with your generation?
Burlington Northern #24 What's next we lack patience, or skill, or the artistic ability? sheesh...
Gary,My dad's generation of modelers was kit builders and scratchbuilders that welcome RTR brass steam engines and yet there was those that claim those RTR engines will doom the craftsmanship of the hobby.
Then when RTR cars and locomotives showed up from several manufacturers the cry as the younger generation was "to lazy to build a locomotive kit and wants everything handed to them built" and "the hobby is doom because of RTR and shake the box kits"..
That's what my generation was told in the 60s.
So whats new with your generation?
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Brakie,If you go back and look at the Letters to the Editor of Model Railroad waaaay back in the day, you could read the complaints about how kits are ruining the hobby, and how "real" model railroaders only use metal or wood, and not this cheapo plastic junk. And this was in the 1940's and 1950's.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Paul A. Cutler III
In My Opinion Only: I may feel a LHS's plight in having to close, because of lack of business,or family matters. But I feel the Sadest for the person that has a family and has worked somewhere for 10, 15,or even 20yrs at the same job and have that job be gone forever. Where does that person, replace His or Her income? Unemployment only lasts so long and who pays for health insurance for the family then? Where is that person going to go to be able to support the family again, there could and most times be a age factor. LHS's support a hobby, that is influx with the changing times, either you adapt, diversify, odds are you are going to fail and that includes our life as we know it. I don't want to bore any one with my personal life, but I myself had to make many decisions when I returned from Vietnam in 68, as well as others. I feel fortunate that with the guidance of others and my own choices, that I made the correct ones. My family and how I was able to provide for them,food, clothing, Ed. and shelter was more important than any LHS closing Ma & Pop store ETC. Because of some of the choices I made, being retired for now 13yrs, I am living quite comfortable and I am so glad that I don't have to follow the drummer any more and my son's and daughter and their children are able to go with the flow, that is constantly changing. I said My piece.
''Happy New Year'' To All and Welcome To The Real World, of change.
Burlington Northern #24What's next we lack patience, or skill, or the artistic ability? sheesh...
I supported my LHS until the bitter end, then folks wonder why young people don't want to be in this hobby.
this preconception about out of the box stuff drives me nuts, the day SP&S models are out in bulk from the box requiring no paint stripping or redecaling will be the day I'd never thought I'd see.
oy vey.
What's next we lack patience, or skill, or the artistic ability? sheesh...
Joe I very much agree with your post.
For one thing, it's not just model railroad shops that are closing. Try finding an independant hardware store, pharmacy, or bookstore these days. Borders is long gone. Heck, my folks own a used bookstore that used to be a franchise of the 7th largest bookstore chain in the country 30 years ago with over 90 stores. Now there's just 20 of us left.
All brick & morter retail is suffering from lower sales these days. Did you see the news reports? How online sales are up something like 30% while in-store sales are dropping? Did you see how UPS got totally swamped this year with last minute online Christmas purchases? It means the big retailers are losing market share to your PC but they pick it up online. Well, it's worse for small retailers because many don't have the ability to put their whole store online, and even when they do they have to compete with the big "name" stores without being able to provide the personal interaction that makes people want to buy from them in the first place.
If you really want to get all dark and depressing, the days of small business retail appear to be numbered. All that will be left are service industries like restaurants, hair/nail solons, barber shops, and dry cleaners. Even shopping malls will be doomed with their high rent on slim margins. Model railroad shops are more like a canary in a coal mine to a retail-less future.