Curious if anyone else models in TT. My home layout still hasn't been built because I keep changing the track layout but this past summer I built small layout for the NMRA Nationals in Atlanta. It's only 6' X 3' because it had to break down and fit in my 2 door Civic. It's not totally complete but it will be for the Cleveland Nationals in 2014. Here are a few pics from the show:
Welcome to the forums! Yours appears to be the old TT, somewhere between HO and S, am I right? Though he wasn't there this year, a fellow has had the new TT (Tiny Train), smaller than Z on display at a local train show. Pretty darn small. I haven't heard of anyone in the older TT for many years. Looks like you have a good start. Where do you find the equipment?
Have fun,
Richard
TT is dead in this country with a following smaller than S. All of the TT stuff is imported from what was eastern europe.
rrebellTT is dead in this country
"No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'!" Monty Python parrot sketch.
Personally I think that TT deserved a better fate, 1:120 not too small to handle, for clumsy fingered persons, like myself, yet more train for the same space as HO. A case of bad timing as motor size and technology at the time of its inception didn't cut the mustard. Incidently New Zealand Rail modelers are using 1: 120 scale on N Gauge track to achieve the prototypes 3'6" gauge.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Cowman, methinks you've confused OO scale for TT scale.
From small to large:
'Pure' American OO is a most uncommon gauge, probably ranking between Z and TT in popularity. It is much more popular in the UK.
I, personally, model in HOj, 1:80 scale on 16.5mm track - common in Japan, used only for Japanese prototype modeling elsewhere.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Chessie cat@cowman There isn't an "old" TT and a "new" TT as far as I know. TT is 1/120. I believe you're referring to "T gauge" which is 1/450. The equipment is imported from Europe. There WAS a company in the US (Gold Coast) making freight cars but it just got sold to a German owner a few months ago. @rrebell "Dead"..........not quite. It's still breathing :)
The scale between HO and S was OO (4 mm / ft or 1:76.2). Sometimes called American OO. It differs from British OO in that it uses the correct track gauge of .750 instead of the HO gauge of .649. There were a number of manufacturers at the end of WWII, but the scale has mostly died out in the U.S.
TT has a sporadic history in this country and was invented by Hal Joyce at the end of WWII. It was slow to get going and HO became the scale to achieve great popularity with low cost, mass produced plastic models. It achieved great popularity in Eastern Europe where the smaller size is great for the smaller housing. But it has always had a small following in this country and a few manufaturers supporting it..
TT unlike HO, really is sized for a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I think if a reliable supply of track/turnouts, locomotives, and cars could be achieved, it would become very popular for that reason alone.
Enjoy
Paul
tomikawaTT Cowman, methinks you've confused OO scale for TT scale. From small to large: N scale 1:160 (or 1:150 or 1:144) TT scale 1:120 HO scale 1:87 (or 1:87.1) OO scale 1:76 S scale 1:64 'Pure' American OO is a most uncommon gauge, probably ranking between Z and TT in popularity. It is much more popular in the UK. I, personally, model in HOj, 1:80 scale on 16.5mm track - common in Japan, used only for Japanese prototype modeling elsewhere. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I might add that Z scale is 1:220.
Rich
Alton Junction
TT gauge track and trucks are useful for portraying HOn42 (or HOn3.5). Sometimes called "Cape Gauge" because it was widely used in a few British colonies (like what would become South Africa), it was used on the Newfoundland Railway. Unfortunately, the Newfie is gone...
But it lives on for modelers.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I recall as a youth when a track plan was published that it included measurements for O Scale, S Scale, TT Scale, and HO Scale -- But, no N Scale -- Yet.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Don't forget "Treble O" scale. 1/152. I have boxes of the stuff in my train room closet.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
TT gauge track also works for what's called HOm, which is HO meter gauge track. It's actually wider than it should be for that, one reason why it also is used for HOn42. There are lots of cool and pricey Swiss models, but Liliput and a few others also present more affordable options.
This loco started out as a HOn30 gauge model of a 900cm (what we call HOn30 [9 mm], but there's a Euro designation for that which is probably more correct, but can't remember it right now) Austrian prototype. You can obtain a set of HOm (12 mm) conversion wheelsets from Liliput if you want to run it that way. Or you can do what I did and convert it to HOn3 (10.5 mm) by using the 12mm gauge wheelsets and narrowing them. Here's the conversion:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/215880.aspx
This loco could be a real traveling narrowgauge boomer if you have all three sets of wheels. It's roughly in the $200 range after you add in a nice Lenz 21-pin decoder. I custom painted it.
Steve Hauff, who with his brother published a conversion of the Bachmann 70-tonner to HOn3 in RMC a few years back, had a letter to the editor in the Nov/Dec 2013 NG Gazette showing off a pic of his custom-bashed Newfoundland NF-110. This time he started with a Bachmann SD-45. I may have to check that out myself... Long story short, if you want to explore TT, there is track around (look for HOm) and some mechanisms that might be useful (both the 70-tonner and Liliput might take a trim in width and height). More mechanisms in TT might offer or be based on the concept they could also accomodate slightly narrower wheelsets to expand their marketability, an important factor in a niche scale like TT.
Steve Hauff, who with his brother published a conversion of the Bachmann 70-tonner to HOn3 in RMC a few years back, had a letter to the editor in the Nov/Dec 2013 NG Gazette showing off a pic of his custom-bashed Newfoundland NF-110. This time he started with a Bachmann SD-45. I may have to check that out myself...
Long story short, if you want to explore TT, there is track around (look for HOm) and some mechanisms that might be useful (both the 70-tonner and Liliput might take a trim in width and height). More mechanisms in TT might offer or be based on the concept they could also accomodate slightly narrower wheelsets to expand their marketability, an important factor in a niche scale like TT.
Wow I haven't really heard much about the "failed gauge" TT in recent years, Though I hear the Russians are really into it. I have the original issue of MR from Sept 1946 with a side bar announcing that the secret launch of the new TT gauge will be fully covered in a future issue. TT was just too small for its introductory time period. The motors and detailing for post WWII were just not up to snuff to get the gauge going well.
Why the industry went to N and not develop TT remains a mystery to me. Though TT was effectively dead when N was introduced. The first N trains were garbage as many old timers here will remember and even ten years into it, N scale was still pretty much a sad joke. Not so now, however. N gauge is now a fully robust and competitve scale. Will Z ever move into hyper quality trains? I see that some of the better Z locos, especially articulated steamers are already in the hyper costly range. It's like buying a Rolex!
Thanks for the great images of this rare scale. I am stunned that good cars and locos can be found. How much of it is imported??
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
My guess, by judging from the replies, is that no one here models in TT. I have been following this thread from MRH...
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/11209
TT is a great size and I hope it does become a bit more popular. I enjoy building things, instead of just buying stuff that someone else has had all of the fun with already, and scales like this are right up my alley. This is one of the few scale / gauge's that I have not not done anything with.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Chuck and others,
Methinks you're right. I couldn't find my ancient model railroad magazine that had the sizes listed in it. It has been a long time since I looked at it (have seen the box in the last year), memories fading. At least I got a discussion going.
I think the fellow that was showing the small train was calling it TT, which I found confusing, since I remembered that there was an older TT designation. Probably T is correct, he had no information handouts to go with it and nothing on signs on or near the layout. Too tiny for me to have much interest, would spend all my time trying to find the little pieces, like locos and cars. Don't know how one would ever find the people and other inhabitents of the layout.
Oh well!
For some reason I am partial to this loco.
What brand is it?
Jim
Jim, check this out. They have some neat TT stuff...http://www.sazmodel.myshopify.com
trwroute... They have some neat TT stuff... http://www.sazmodel.myshopify.com
Thanks, Chuck.
OK, I'll admit it, I'm a TT Convert! We’re not quite as dead as some think? And I hadn’t heard the term “failed gauge” before, but I don’t think that’s it either. I think it was (and maybe still is) the ignored gauge. It publicized itself in the 40’s and 50’s as the smallest practical gauge, but lost that when N came along. When you look at the fact that probably 95% of the locomotives came from one manufacturer (HP Products) you can see why it was limited. If Mantua or Athearn or even one of the smaller HO manufacturers would have taken a chance back then I think it might have made a difference.
I got into it about 15 years ago when I realized I had no space for a moderately sized HO layout. I could have an overgrown switching layout or do something else. I bought some N gauge but it just didn't fit me, I enjoy doing more than taking it out of the box and putting it on the track. So I bought a TT boxcar kit on Ebay. It wasn't love at first sight (when I opened the box and saw the cardboard and a pile of wood) but I built it and it's not too bad.. I had built a few craftsman style kits in HO and this wasn't a lot different.
Some new technologies have really helped keep TT going. There were a few individuals making resin kits that made some nice models. More recently with Shapeways (rapid prototyping) and some different laser cutting companies producing a few TT kits it's better yet. Diesels have been a problem, but this is getting better too- we started with the old HP models, then got a kit to motorize the Lionel 1:120 diecasts and even a couple brass kits, an earlier SW1200 and an SD45 kit- you get the etch, and build it yourself. Talk about building some skills! The SW1200 is the first RTR, but I won’t complain about not having to build it! The hardest thing about a diesel mechanism in TT isn’t getting the wheels in gauge, it’s getting a gear tower that will fit inside a modern diesel body and have room to swivel. For example, a “standard” road diesel (A GP, SD, RS, etc) the hood is around 6 feet wide. That translates to an internal width in TT of about a half an inch, so getting room inside can be tricky. We use either parts from European prototype locos or power trucks from Hollywood Foundry, their Bull Ants fit the bill. Not always easy, but lots of fun if you’re into building anything.
And someone asked how much is imported- well most of it. But look at the boxes that almost any model railroad product comes in and you’ll see that’s not a big difference. And with a lot of the recent innovations in North American prototype TT made across the Atlantic it doesn’t matter to me where it comes from! If you’re interested check out www.TTnut.com.
And one video to check out, this is from a German TT group that follows NA prototypes- It shows what can be done. http://youtu.be/1yegMUPJccw
TT stood (and stands) for Table Top.....
I think my Sept 46 copy of MR that has a sidebar in it refers to TT as meaning "Tiny Trains". Not combative on this, just reporting. I personally refered to TT as a "failed gauge" since it did indeed have a brief flurry of activity around it in the US, and in the MR mags of the 50's you could almost always find someone advertising some TT loco or car kit.
I think N gauge was often first refered to as being "coffee table" raliroading.
Again, the motors of the day, when TT was introduced, just weren't up to it. Postwar trains were pretty much garbage by today's standards, mostly due to the post war lag in transferring manufacturing back to civilian amusements. Certainly, MRs after WWII were eager to have someothing new to run and model as their ranks swelled with young G.I.s returning home. The manufacturers rushed a lot of less than stellar stuff to the shelves to get in on the action.
Early N was little better than early TT and I thought for sure, back then, that N might be the new TT failure mode gauge, but the technology and detail did come around, albeit slowly. The early N cars looked fairly decent, but the loco's, especially steam, were pitiful in look and operation. I feel that modern high resolution plastic casting help save N from oblivion. Too bad for TT in the U.S. N scale got so good, following a rather ugly childhood, that TT, which could have made a real comeback with modern technology, just got aced out. As I noted, the europeans took to TT, Russia especially.
I have a feeling that another reason TT never made it was few HO gaugers abandoned their HO after the war and the newcomers just didn't see much of TT. You had to really look for it then. N was a different story. it was dirt cheap with early complete sets that included an oval of track and transfomrer being discounted to under $20.00 at xmas. So many new comers, especially kids who are now 40 years of age teethed on N gauge and probably stayed with it. Not so with TT.
I am stunned at Z gauge and how it is rapidly morphing into a decent looking setup if you have the bucks to spare. What kind of DCC sound cards for Z are there? Speakers? Just kidding........(for now). Might have to wipe that smile off my face someday.
Hoorah for TT modelers! I always appreciate an up-hill fighter.
Chessie catOut of curiosity, what's the #1 thing keeping you from modeling in TT? Is it track, rolling stock, you're too invested in another scale, something else?
Well, I find HO to be a little too small, so TT isn't much of an improvement for me. OTOH if I were limited to a 4x8 or smaller I would give it a try.
narrow gauge nuclear Early N was little better than early TT and I thought for sure, back then, that N might be the new TT failure mode gauge, but the technology and detail did come around, albeit slowly.
Early N was little better than early TT and I thought for sure, back then, that N might be the new TT failure mode gauge, but the technology and detail did come around, albeit slowly.
Just a thought -- HO Scale is half of O Scale -- TT Scale is not quite enough to be half of HO Scale -- Whereas N Scale is close to half of HO Scale.
If there was the support structure fot TT like there is for HO, i`d dump HO in a heartbeat just to get more layout in a given space with a scale I could work with. N is too small for my eyes & dexterity.
Bob D
Bob D As long as you surface as many times as you dive you`ll be alive to read these posts.