A water re-do

[HaroldA]

 A couple of years ago I poured my first lake using Envirotex.  It was okay but after looking at some pictures of the actual area and making some other modifications, I have decided it is too blue.  Tearing it out is option but not a desireable one.  Would it be possible to paint over the existing surface and pour another layer of the epoxy.  Or, maybe pour a thing layer of soupy plaster as a base....maybe I just answered my own question.  Any other ideas out there?

 

 

 

[mlehman]

Paint will work, but may cause problems with the layers above not bonding to what's below.

If you add plaster, that's going to make everything thicker. I'm also not certain that it won't crack in the long run in spots and look ratehr strange underneath the water.

Easiest and thinnest thing you could do would be to pour additional layers that are colored more to your taste directly on top of the existing water. That also preserves much of the feeling of depth, if you're not trying for murky water.

[peahrens]

On my grandson's layout we made a pond with WS pellet type (meltable) water but I messed it up.  Made it too deep, multiple pours made it a visual mess then when I tried to improve it I went through the plywood.  A real learning experience.

Our soultion was to fill it in and make that spot a structure site.  Not sure what we filled it with.  Then put a farm in the adjacent area and started anew there with a pond, same WS material for water but not as deep, one pour, came out nicely.

So, one option is to relocate if that fits your pistol. 

[zstripe]

HaroldA,

Before you go ripping things out and painting anything. Take some time out and review, Motleys thread on, New Mainline Rework, He had a river that was too blue and he changed it with adding colors to another pour and the results were perfect, He describes what he did,with pics before and after. Take the time to look at it. We are having slight problems posting past links in our new software, so I won't even try. Mike you remember that thread,don't you?

Cheers, 

Frank

[zstripe]

HaroldA,

This is the Thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/220800.aspx

Cheers, 

Frank

[bogp40]

If you need/ want to show "depth" to the water tinting additonal layers of the Envirotex will work. Just painting the base and repouring will work, however, this will place the "opaque" base at that level and loose any depth.

If you don't have the height for any substancial pours, and not worried about the transparency for depth, you could conceivably use Drwaynes's method of reproducing some great water effects from the use of Durabond, painting, drybrushing highlights and Gloss medium. Hopefully Wayne will post to elaborate w/ pics.

[doctorwayne]

Thanks for your generous assessment of my layout's water features, Bob.

Harold, if the only problem with your current water is the colour, an additional pour of Envirotex tinted to a more agreeable shade might solve the issue.  This will depend on how much additional depth the area is able to accommodate.
If there's little leeway for additional pours, simply painting the existing water and clear-coating it is an option.

While I've used a pourable resin in the past (don't recall the brand, but it was fairly expensive and extremely stinky) and got decent results, I decided to try something different on my current layout.
The riverbed is 3/8" sheathing plywood, attached directly to the open grid benchwork with screws.  The surrounding terrain is Durabond patching plaster over aluminum window screen, all elevated on risers.  This ensures a solid base for the "water" and allows the terrain and track to be at whatever level seems appropriate.  Here are a couple of views before the deluge:

The bridge piers and abutments were cast in Durabond, too, using simple moulds built from .060" styrene.  They were affixed to the plywood using yellow carpenter's glue.  Like all bridges on my layout, this one is removeable as a unit, and was, of course, removed for installation of the "water".
I mixed a batch of Durabond 90 (sets in approximately 90 minutes), then sprayed the riverbed with "wet" water - this was to prevent the unsealed plywood from drawing too much moisture out of the plaster.  The plaster, mixed to the consistency of cake batter, perhaps a bit on the thick-ish side, was then dumped onto the plywood and spread around using drywall knives.  I originally thought that I had mixed it too thick, as I had wanted it to self-level, but the long working time allowed me to get it level, if not exactly smooth.  As it began to set, I used a small drywall knife to tease-up some turbulence around the piers - this was an on-going process, as the first couple of attempts re-levelled themselves somewhat.  Once the setting process began in earnest, though, a quick dab or two was all that was possible.

While the Durabond sets rather suddenly, I allowed it to cure for a few days before painting.  Durabond can be mixed as thickly or thinly as you wish, and will still set in approximately the rated setting time.  It can be applied as thin or thick as needed, and doesn't crack or shrink, and once cured, is extremely hard and durable - don't plan on sanding it smooth or level.
I used ordinary flat interior latex paint, and applied it with a 2" or 3" brush.  the two colours were applied "wet" and blended together where they meet.  At the backdrop, I was originally planning on carrying the water's colours up onto the "sky" (this scene represents the point at which the river empties into Lake Erie) but opted instead to paint the sky colour onto the narrow strip of river where the two meet.  I'm happy with the effect, as it looks more acceptable from eye-level.
After the paint had cured for a couple of days, I used a 1/2" brush to apply some PollyScale Reefer White to the turbulence around the piers, and after letting that cure for a day or two, used a 2" brush to apply three coats of water-based high gloss clear urethane.  This should be done with strict adherence to the instructions on the can, which allow only a narrow window in which additional coats can be applied without requiring sanding - it would be next to impossible to sand this type of water unless it were dead-smooth.

Here are similar views after some heavy rains:

Here's a view from above, showing the deeper channel under the truss span and the "sky" colour at the backdrop (aerial views courtesy of Secord Air Services):

You can alter the appearance of the water, even using similar colours, by varying the proportions and placement of each, and by modifying the surface texture.  This is Chippawa Creek during a very dry summer:

Nowadays, it's a fairly fast-flowing stream:

...and as seen from the air:

I also tried my hand at modelling an inlet of Lake Erie.  It suffers somewhat from being too close to the viewer and in a rather narrow portion of the layout.  I'm still debating on whether or not to add a painted-on spit of land on the backdrop to increase the illusion of depth.  I am fairly pleased with the way the "water" turned out, though.  While the Durabond in the first two scenes is probably only 1/8" thick, here it's over an inch:

Because I wanted to create some rougher water, the mix used here was fairly stiff.  Again, a drywall knife was used to tease-up the waves, and I was even able to create a slight "curl" by drawing the knife out toward the lake while lifting slightly, then bringing it back landward:

Since your "water" is already in place and it's mostly the colour which you wish to change, you could probably skip the plaster step and simply paint over your existing water, then clear coat it.  The colours you choose will impart a greater sense of depth than successive pours of Envirotex - your goal is to make the water "look" as deep as you wish it to be.

For anyone wishing to try this method of making water scenes, it seemed to me to be pretty easy and intuitive - these were my first attempts.  Since I already use Durabond for the scenery, along with both the grey-green and dirt-coloured paints, my only additional expense was for a quart of clear urethane.  With water clean-up for the brushes, and any left-over Durabond broken-up for use as rip-rap, there's little waste and it doesn't stink-up the house, either.

 

Wayne

 

[wp8thsub]

doctorwayne

Since your "water" is already in place and it's mostly the colour which you wish to change, you could probably skip the plaster step and simply paint over your existing water, then clear coat it.

That should work.  I did that once to some epoxy water that had a color I didn't like.

I have a couple of water courses that are nothing but a painted plaster surface coated with gloss Mod Podge (similar to acrylic gloss medium but a bith thicker in consistency).  They can confuse viewers into thinking there's some depth that isn't really there.

Here's what one of them looked like with just the paint.  This may be plaster, but you could do the same thing atop epoxy resin (Envirotex or other brands).  Study photos of water in the area you're modeling for ideas on coloration.  If you need to blend from lighter colors representing shallower banks to darker ones for deeper areas, make sure there are no visible brush marks to give away the illusion.

This is another stream in the process of Mod Podge being applied to create a ripple pattern.

This is how the completed water looks.

Another view of finished water.

[selector]

This part of modelling is an exercise in learning for all of us who do it.  Water is not easy, and good water is even harder.  I have come close, but only once, and that was with my outdoors diorama with the resultant image below.   And that's thanks to bright sunshine and a reflected genuine sky.

You need the epoxy to be able to bond with itself to keep it in place, so I would strongly advise against painting the top surface and overlaying with another pour or two.  As Wayne suggests, tinting is the way to go, but......

...you can paint some of the surface.  For example, suppose you find today that you don't have that darkened deeper portion down pat.  It needs help.  Then, go ahead and paint a thin layer of a suitable colour of acrylic paint to create that middle darker portion, let it dry, and then pour more TINTED epoxy over the whole.  The new pour will bond to the epoxy still bared nearest the shore, and due to its own structural integrity, as a medium, it will act as aone strong bonded sheet, provided it isn't paper thin.  Mix enough mass so that your pour will be an honest-to-goodness 1/8" thick evenly across the entire water surface.

Tinting: I would recommend a medium green mixed with yellow in a ratio of about 6/1 in favour of the green.  In a batch that is a full cup of the epoxy, poured only 1/8" thick, two drops of the mixed paints, as a batch, only, in that mass of one cup of epoxy.  Mix all of it for a minimum of four minutes, as much of as pain as that amount of mixing is, because you don't want to have to do it all over again, wasting both time and material, and you do want it to harden!!!

[doctorwayne]

wp8thsub

Another view of finished water.

 

That's great-looking water, Rob.  If you had spilled a little gloss medium down the fascia in a suitable drip-like fashion, visitors to your layout would be touching it to see if it really is water.

Wayne

[river_eagle]

Maybe the OP could post a pic or two of their problem area, which would make it easier to offer a suggestion for a fix.