Alright, let me add on my experience. I have one MTH HO engine, a Conrail GG1. It died within an hour of being put on the track. I sent it back to MTH, and they fixed it at no cost to me. It has run completely flawlessly since (at least, it doesn't have any problems that the BLI GG1s didn't have), and it cooperates in DCC with my BLI GG1s. The sound start up is annoying, but I've found i can start up the sound while the MTH G is in consist on the move. I personally would be worried about the older MTH with less DCC compatibility, but I WOULD buy another MTH GG1 if i had to get another. The only thing about them that is sometimes annoying is the automatic pantographs. Sometimes, I'd rather them just work manually, but if the mechnism is locked down, you can't release the pantograph. However, thats ultimately a silly thing.
Modeling Conrail, Amtrak and NJ DOT under the wires in New Jersey, July 1979.
Rastafarr This is the thread that never ends... It just goes on and on my friends... Seriously gents, can't we get back to bemoaning the lack of Atlas track or worrying that the hobby is dying?
This is the thread that never ends...
It just goes on and on my friends...
Seriously gents, can't we get back to bemoaning the lack of Atlas track or worrying that the hobby is dying?
This is more fun.......seriously, it does attract participation.
from the general disdain towards MTH, my 2 cents is I hope they don't come to N.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
riogrande5761 ndbprr So my conclusion is that very few people are ambivalent on this topic feeling ve ry strongly one way or the other with a few souls in the center I guess I am one of the few ambivalent about MTH - probably it is mainly because I don't own anything by them nor have I seen anything I want by them. There you go.
ndbprr So my conclusion is that very few people are ambivalent on this topic feeling ve ry strongly one way or the other with a few souls in the center
I guess I am one of the few ambivalent about MTH - probably it is mainly because I don't own anything by them nor have I seen anything I want by them. There you go.
Right there with you. I have no MTH stuff for the same reason - they don't offer anything I want. I've had a few people bring MTH locos over to run on my layout, and can't say I was favorably impressed with programming the DCS decoders, but don't think that would keep me from buying one if it was something that interested me. Count me as ambivalent too.
Rob Spangler
riogrande5761I guess I am one of the few ambivalent about MTH - probably it is mainly because I don't own anything by them nor have I seen anything I want by them. There you go.
ndbprrSo my conclusion is that very few people are ambivalent on this topic feeling ve ry strongly one way or the other with a few souls in the center
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
No one is compelling you to keep reading - I skip right over all the "no Atlas track" threads.
Sheldon
twhiteBesides, isn't Mike the guy that stopped the mighty Union Pacific in their tracks with their licenseing fees on model manufacturers producing UP (and the roads that UP gobbled up) cars? Seems we should owe him a vote of gratitude for that.
The decissions manufacturers make regarding what products to offer, what features to include, what options they give customers in buying the product different ways, and how they act toward their competition all make statements about who they want as customers.
Sometimes those statements are subtle, sometimes they are very obvious.
MTH came from the three rail market, where it has long been accepted for each brand to have a fair amount of "propriatary" features and equipment - and where everything was "copied" from the once propriatary offerings of LIONEL.
That was all fine for that market.
HO, even with a tremendous growth of "RTR" oriented customers, is still primarily a "modeler scale" and was built around the idea of interchangeablity and compatibility.
MTH largerly ignored this as they ventured into HO, and eventually backtracked on some of their "proprriatary" positions. They are just now imbracing the idea that not everyone wants "trains that do more" - in fact many people would like to buy versions that do less - which they are just now offering with a few of their products.
As a DC operator, who is not interested in sound, they made a big statement to me early on - "we are not really interested in modelers who do not want command control and sound" - hence my earlier statement that they are not interested in my money, so I have obliged them by not purchasing any of their locomotives.
Additionally, I have had the oppertunity to inspect some of their products, and find many of their steam locomotive offerings to fall short of my detail/scale accuracy standards, especially considering their prices.
All other features aside (sound, smoke, fancy lighting, etc), in the price catagory that MTH chooses to be in, as a person interested in SCALE models, I expect better and more correct fine detail than many MTH locos offer.
I will use their Berkshire as my example. They consider having a die cast boiler and important feature. And the result is some details are oversized, like the very thick running boards, rivets, etc. Other detail is simply missing, and the one boiler version offered is only correct for two of the many roadnames offered. At a list price of $449.95 I expect more in the detail/prototype correctness department.
One of their competitors gets much closer detail wise for less than half the price - admittely without sound. It must cost $249.00 to wire up those fancy lights, add the sound and smoke, and record the voice of that guy who says "All aboard!".
Well, since I don't want the fancy lights, sound, smoke or the guy saying "All Aboard", I have to assume MTH is not interested in my business - I bought five Berkshires from that other company.
Which were easily converted from DCC back to simple DC and which run great on my DC system.
Admittedly, MTH is not the only company who has made it clear they don't want my money. BLI has waffled back and forth over the years regarding the offering of non sound or DC (DCC ready) products - I don't buy a lot of their products for similar reasons.
I don't mind removing a simple plug in decoder to make a loco DC, I don't even concern myself with any small price difference in that case. But I will not buy locos that clearly have price premiums for sound, smoke, etc, just so I can dis-assemble them and remove these features.
Nor will I pay those prices for locos with "average" detail or accuracy.
MTH has made it clear who their target customers are - respectfully, it is the RTR HO "toy train" market. I am not part of that demographic.
Almost all the other brands in HO, still respect the fact that conventional DC and DCC are the two control systems of choice, and offer their products in ways that satisfy the needs of both markets.
MTH was clearly very arrogant regarding this in the begining of their venture into HO - this says something about their mindset.
And I responed by spending my money elsewhere.
So there is the long polite version of my earlier post.
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
Only thing I found objectionable was the rather poor subject heading.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richhotrain zstripe wrote the following post 3 hours ago: When you want to quote a post, click Add Quote to your Post, then click, ''enter'' then type your message and it will be seperated. On my computer, that works if I am using Chrome, but doesn't work if I am using IE8. UGH! Rich
zstripe wrote the following post 3 hours ago:
When you want to quote a post, click Add Quote to your Post, then click, ''enter'' then type your message and it will be seperated.
On my computer, that works if I am using Chrome, but doesn't work if I am using IE8. UGH!
I'm too late again!!!
(psss use Chrome, stop clicking on that stupid blue E)
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Alton Junction
Since I don't own an MTH and honestly don't know an awful lot about them...I may be replying here with just a bit of ignorance. Until this post, I was unaware of their proprietary onboard electronics. Since I use DC that doesn't matter. As someone on a tight budget I am put off by the price more than anything...not only for MTH, but for BLI as well. They both have locomotives of interest to me. But again, the price is an obstacle so I continue looking for surplus blue box. My LHS does not carry MTH on the shelf but you can order them from him. He does not think much of MTH calling them 'toyish'. I've been kicking around the idea of getting an FA/FB set by MTH in straight DC and the Reading road name toward next summer when my budget is somewhat more flexible...maybe.
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
Joe Staten Island West
Bluegill1 MisterBeasley Hmmmmm..... With every day that goes by with this post unlocked, I have to ask if the new forum software can't lock a thread. Or maybe that's one of those things you have to do from a DCS system. Mr Beasley, I got a good chuckle from that one. I agree, time to move on.
MisterBeasley Hmmmmm..... With every day that goes by with this post unlocked, I have to ask if the new forum software can't lock a thread. Or maybe that's one of those things you have to do from a DCS system. Mr Beasley, I got a good chuckle from that one. I agree, time to move on.
Hmmmmm.....
With every day that goes by with this post unlocked, I have to ask if the new forum software can't lock a thread. Or maybe that's one of those things you have to do from a DCS system.
Mr Beasley,
I got a good chuckle from that one.
I agree, time to move on.
Bluegill1,
When you want to quote a post, click Quote to your Post, then click, ''enter'' then type your message and it will be seperated.
Cheers,
Frank
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
twhite Well, I'm one of those Model Railroad dinosaurs (a Triceratops, thank you) who runs DC and 95% steam, so purchasing an MTH steamer would be pretty much out of the question for me. I was thinking about their AC-6 cab forward when it first came out, but considering the voltage it takes to even start in DC and the fact that on DC the top speed I could hope for was about 20smph, I decided to pass. However, I did purchase their SP Daylight passenger car set, plus an extra set of articulated coaches, and I consider the cars to be absolutely beautiful, both in appearance and running characteristics. I do have one criticism, and that is that the cars close-coupled are limited to a 40" radius (my minimum is 34") and coupled normally (allowing them to negotiate a 22" radius) have considerable space between the full-width diaphragms. I've been able to kinda/sorta cure this by shortening one coupler per car, which reduces the space. So, from that point of view, I've had no reason to bash MTH at all. Besides, isn't Mike the guy that stopped the mighty Union Pacific in their tracks with their licenseing fees on model manufacturers producing UP (and the roads that UP gobbled up) cars? Seems we should owe him a vote of gratitude for that. Tom
Well, I'm one of those Model Railroad dinosaurs (a Triceratops, thank you) who runs DC and 95% steam, so purchasing an MTH steamer would be pretty much out of the question for me. I was thinking about their AC-6 cab forward when it first came out, but considering the voltage it takes to even start in DC and the fact that on DC the top speed I could hope for was about 20smph, I decided to pass.
However, I did purchase their SP Daylight passenger car set, plus an extra set of articulated coaches, and I consider the cars to be absolutely beautiful, both in appearance and running characteristics. I do have one criticism, and that is that the cars close-coupled are limited to a 40" radius (my minimum is 34") and coupled normally (allowing them to negotiate a 22" radius) have considerable space between the full-width diaphragms. I've been able to kinda/sorta cure this by shortening one coupler per car, which reduces the space. So, from that point of view, I've had no reason to bash MTH at all. Besides, isn't Mike the guy that stopped the mighty Union Pacific in their tracks with their licenseing fees on model manufacturers producing UP (and the roads that UP gobbled up) cars? Seems we should owe him a vote of gratitude for that.
Tom
Tom, we'll said.
All manufacturers have issues, even well seasoned ones. I feel MTH has suffered from several issues.
1. Bad publicity from the lawsuits.
2. Growing pains or maybe "learning pains".
3. Negative Rumors and gossip, humans enjoying critizing and ripping away, irregardless of the potential harm it might cause to a company or other readers. Perhaps required reading is the book " A Toy Train Story" . The remarkable History of MTH. A simple read should dispell a lot of these.
4. Deep seeded attitudes. There was a negative comment about MTH and their producing such items as an aquarium car, or a M & M car. I feel that if MTH can attract someone into this wonderful hobby with those items, then well done. Once in the hobby, the sky is the limit. There are some who cannot see that aspect of the hobby.
I'm sure there are other areas that could be brought up. I am still a O gauge 3 Rail operator at heart, probably from the joys of my childhood. I also have extensively delved into The great world of HO scale. For those MTH haters out there, don't fret, I only have one MTH diesel, and one Berkshire. Everything else is Walthers, Atlas, Bli, Athearn, and a few I don't remember.
You won't find me bashing anyone, they are all trying to do their best at what they feel is the right thing to do with products and such. I was taught, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
i hope everyone enjoys the hobby for what each manufacturer brings to it. They don't call it the worlds greatest hobby for nothing!
Enjoy your railroad!
Well I was in M.B.Kliens a few weeks ago and one of the sales people was testing a new shipment from MTH. He stated that they have been having a lot of trouble with their products. I watched a brand new fresh out of the box HO steam loco wobble around the test track and slip only pulling its tender. A friend of my has had issues with his O scale equipment from MTH, the control board burn out due to heat created by the smoke unit being to close to the board.
Mark
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Hi, TZephyr
I was also in the market for a second GG1. I have my first run BLI from what, 1999? It still runs flawlessly but it is in the not too common Tuscan paint. I wanted a large keystone with single Dulux stripe G so I started looking at MTH. They "won" the tooling from the BLI lawsuit but when I took a closer look at the finish and details it just didn't measure up to what I would expect, especially for the prices I see out there for the MTH.
I decided to look for an older BLI issue. Glad I did. I found a bargain on ebay that was Dark Green Locomotive Enamel with five gold stripes which is beautiful—so now I'll repaint my Tuscan one.
I'm not going to commit myself to any MTH engines. I was once tempted by the Empire State Hudson but, alas, I'll stick with Life-Like PA's on my Empire State.
Take care, Ed
richhotrain BRAKIE richhotrain LensCapOn wrote the following post 5 minutes ago: All these posts about "a gold brick for free" and no one asks the key question. What Scale is the Gold Brick? Bet a Z-brick would be cost affective marketing. That's cuz no one knows what you are talking about. Rich Grasshopper,the answer to the Zen like riddle is found on page one in ndbprr reply... LOL Somehow I missed ndbprr's reply. Where is Geared Steam when I really need him? Rich
BRAKIE richhotrain LensCapOn wrote the following post 5 minutes ago: All these posts about "a gold brick for free" and no one asks the key question. What Scale is the Gold Brick? Bet a Z-brick would be cost affective marketing. That's cuz no one knows what you are talking about. Rich Grasshopper,the answer to the Zen like riddle is found on page one in ndbprr reply...
richhotrain LensCapOn wrote the following post 5 minutes ago: All these posts about "a gold brick for free" and no one asks the key question. What Scale is the Gold Brick? Bet a Z-brick would be cost affective marketing. That's cuz no one knows what you are talking about. Rich
All these posts about "a gold brick for free" and no one asks the key question.
What Scale is the Gold Brick? Bet a Z-brick would be cost affective marketing.
LOL
Somehow I missed ndbprr's reply.
Where is Geared Steam when I really need him?
I tried to help but was too late
After i got my replacement motors for my MTH SD70ACE's they are some ok running diesels.
Russell
well from what i can see it seems that MTH has issues when it comes to steam , they seem to have HO diesels down but the big steamers have decoder issues that go back to the dcc vs dcs that has been well covered here , wish they would just get on board with the industry standard 7 watch his buisness grow
gmpullmanHere comes MTH with a full, and pretty accurate I must admit, compliment of 1938 and 1940 Twentieth Century Limited cars... what do I do now? Turns out, I eat my words! Prompted by Tstage's photos and "mini-review" posted on these forums, I just had to do it. Figuring that MTH hasn't been on the litigation radar for some time now AND that I would never see any Century cars in the distant future I bit the bullet.
One of my philosophies in gathering information, weather in person or from internet reviews is "Eat the meat and spit out the bone." It is very difficult sometimes to sort out fact, fiction or distortions when you are attempting to get that "honest and unbiased" data. Sometimes, I discover some of the "grass roots" websites that I want to trust for unbiased facts turn out to be funded by conglomerates or other special interest groups with alterior motives.
I try to research nearly all of my purchases like most of us here. I try to cross-reference and exhaust all of my available options. One thing I have to remind myself of is that a good portion of the reviews seem to come from consumers who have been dissatisfied or somehow let down in their experience with a product. They have an axe to grind.
Then there's the possibility of the shill or "champion"—someone who champions a favored product or disdains a certain manufacturer's product. In time these people are usually uncovered for what they are but by then a great deal of damage (reputation) may be done. This is the bone to spit out.
So it was with this philosophy that I watched MTH with a wary eye. I do not fall in favor of litigious people and Mike certainly falls into this category. I swore that I would never buy an MTH product.
Well, along comes the BLI streamlined Hudson and, of course, I had to have one (or three) but when will BLI (or Walthers for that matter) make cars that I can showcase that beautiful engine with? Wait, and wait... and wait.
Here comes MTH with a full, and pretty accurate I must admit, compliment of 1938 and 1940 Twentieth Century Limited cars... what do I do now? Turns out, I eat my words! Prompted by Tstage's photos and "mini-review" posted on these forums, I just had to do it. Figuring that MTH hasn't been on the litigation radar for some time now AND that I would never see any Century cars in the distant future I bit the bullet.
I have to agree with Tom that these cars are a "home run!" In many ways better than the Walther's counterpart. I don't have to twist, hammer and pry to get the car open, the interior details are incomparable and the lighting is superb! If MTH wants to make a bundle, they could sell their keep-alive circuitry as a stand-alone product!
Just my 2¢ Thanks, Ed