Wow. Lots of new ideas while I was away, plus some endorsements of earlier ideas. There's more interest in PRR steam in N scale.
A lot of folks want more vehicles of a lot of different types. Kevin's idea of having poseable figures is really great. As he says, he's thinking out of the box and that's good.
The NP/SP&S/GN 4-6-6-4 seems to be gaining traction (is that a pun?) By the way, 4-6-6-4's tend to have a smaller "front porch" than most other artic's, so they wouldn't look so bad with the non-prototypical hinge arrangement. And as for those minimum radius curves, I agree wholeheartedly that they aren't a good idea, if only because of appearance. My point was that big artic's CAN be designed to operate successfully on tight curves. Most tend to look horrible on anything less than 30" radius in HO, no matter how they're hinged, and they don't really start to look GOOD until you get to 40" or more (cut these figures in half for N; double them for O).
Fmilhaupt, do you have a specific ALCO 2-8-0 in mind? Brooks engines had a distinctive look that was different from the look of other Alcos. Many non-USRA locos had a "look" that was dictated more by the purchaser than the builder. (For example, PRR 2-8-0's with Belpaire boilers were built by Alco and even [gasp!] Lima!). Are you thinking of a big mainline 2-8-0 or a small branch/shortline 2-8-0. If the latter, I'd recommend a light Brooks engine like the Buffalo & Susquehanna engines.
Hard to know how to respond to Hornblower's comments about scratchbuilding stucco structures. I sure don't know what kind of market exists for Southern California architecture. One of the goals of this whole thread is to create a climate where we won't have to do so much scratchbuilding because the needed items are available. But if the products don't become available, we do what we must. Hornblower has recognized that all of his structure needs are not going to be fulfilled by the suppliers, and has developed workable methods of getting what he needs & wants. I hope he is rewarded with some suitable structures, if only because his efforts deserve to be rewarded. However, I grew up in Ohio and the first floor of our house was --- you guessed it --- STUCCO. So it's not just a California thing.
Back a few years ago Micro Machines made some sets that included 4 wheelers, dirt bikes, and snowmobiles that scaled out pretty well to HO. You have to watch these things in places like Wal Mart and pick them up when they're available.
locoi1sa Well since were going crazy with non articulated articulated steam locos may I add a sound decoder with only two functions for steamers. And while were at it how about some HO scale dirt bikes with riders and maybe some 4 wheel ATVs? Pete
Well since were going crazy with non articulated articulated steam locos may I add a sound decoder with only two functions for steamers.
And while were at it how about some HO scale dirt bikes with riders and maybe some 4 wheel ATVs?
Pete
I used to lament the fact that so few available structure kits resemble architecture found in Southern California. We don't see a lot of masonry buildings as they don't do well in earthquake country. Instead, we have a lot of stucco on frame structures. Modeling the 1950's in the Orange County area, I need a lot of single story commercial buildings with storefront windows and stucco walls. The closest kits I found are the recent Walthers Main Street releases but these have brick walls. What to do? I've become a scratch building fiend. I can purchase 4' by 8' sheets of 0.040" styrene for $20 locally and so have been building like crazy. I find that a light circular pattern sanding of the finish sides of the styrene walls with 220 grit sandpaper and stippling the paint finish looks a lot like HO scale sized stucco. I use a vernier caliper with one jaw sharpened to a knife edge to cut out my storefront window frames. The most time consuming portion of building these structures has proven to be the rooftop detailing. Scratch building all those air conditioning and exhaust fan units can get a little tedious but the end result is quite satisfying. No model available? Why not try to scratch build or at least kitbash what you want?
Hornblower
There was talk a few years ago about geared locomotives in N scale. Did anything ever come of that?
Each time this question comes up, I repeat myself and say that I would really like slightly less expensive small power trucks for building streetcars, MOW equipment, inspection engines, tram engines, and other oddities.
So let's really think out of the proverbial box:
1. Live steam in On30 and O
2. Scale figures that harden on exposure to air. The figure would arrive packed in an air-tight bag, you open it up, pose the figure and after a few hours it hardens so that it can be painted and glued.
3. A smart phone or tablet app that takes the place of the paperwork used during operating sessions. The car cards, waybills, train orders, etc etc etc are generated by a computer operated by the dispatcher and then automatically sent to the operators.
4. Since no manufacturer is ever going to be able to satisfy every modeler for every steam locomotive, would it be practical to sell custom frames, drivers, valve gears, and motors? Suppose I want to a 2-4-0 and my buddy wants an 0-4-4T. We could each order the appropriate frame, wheels, and motor combination and then build the bodies ourselves. How many people would need to take advantage of this service for the price to drop below that of the average brass locomotive?
Any other really exotic ideas?
Kevin
Pennsy Steam in N Scale.
Modeling the Bellefonte Central Railroad
Fan of the PRR
Garden Railway Enthusiast
Check out my Youtube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/PennsyModeler
I really like the idea of the Whitcomb 65-tonner. 'course, I'd like to see a Whitcomb 44-tonner, too.
What would probably kill these would be that the price on even the smaller switchers is creeping up to or exceeding price of larger power. When a side-rod 45-ton switcher is more expensive than a Geep ($155 MSRP vs. $109 MSRP), there's a big segment of the market that won't go for the smaller locomotive. Even Bachmann's 44-ton switcher is within $5 of their GP7, now.
What I really want for my fleet right now is a heavy ALCo 2-8-0. My road's diesels pretty much have been covered, and I'm up to my knees in Berkshires.
Another one that's been missed is a smaller, lighter Mikado than a USRA version. 'hard to choose a prototype for that one, though.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
Let's see
1. A good & correct C30-7. Broadway's is ok, and IIRC atlas had an error, but I forgot what. The BLI pulls better than the atlas, but the body details are kind of lacking, and installing an antic-limber is a bit of a pain to the BLI. Preferably Atlas since they have most of the stuff to make a correct BN one. preferably available with or without DCC/sound
2. A good & correct C415. Even though BN only had 2, I like the looks of these. preferably available with or without DCC/sound.
3. Kato to redo their GP35.
4. Great Northern S-1 4-8-4. I know BLI announced them, but I doubt they are doing them anymore
5. GN/NP/SP&S 4-6-6-4. MTH might, but I've heard too many horror stories about their electronics.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
UP 4-12-2Seriously, are we discussing N-gauge or HO here?
ACY Both of my Key Brass EM-1's can take a 19" radius curve, although they look like @%#*$@# doing it. The Challenger EM-1 can do the same, although she complains about it. I understand the Intermountain SP 4-8-8-2 (which is a 2-8-8-4 that needs a compass) is designed to hinge like the prototype. Can anybody say what kind of radius that engine needs? Surely ANY articulated (maybe excepting a Triplex or a 2-10-10-2) can handle any curve that can be negotiated be the 4-12-2 after which you're named.
Both of my Key Brass EM-1's can take a 19" radius curve, although they look like @%#*$@# doing it. The Challenger EM-1 can do the same, although she complains about it. I understand the Intermountain SP 4-8-8-2 (which is a 2-8-8-4 that needs a compass) is designed to hinge like the prototype. Can anybody say what kind of radius that engine needs?
Surely ANY articulated (maybe excepting a Triplex or a 2-10-10-2) can handle any curve that can be negotiated be the 4-12-2 after which you're named.
Seriously, are we discussing N-gauge or HO here?
I think BLI is advertising 42" minimum radius for their 4-12-2, if it ever gets made--and MTH's version with it's non-prototypical articulated mechanism overhangs severely on 26" radius, but will probably do less (though I don't have less so I don't know what it will be comfortable on).
If you got a Key HO EM-1 around tight curves--well, that must be a miracle--but I would bet consistent operation on curves that tight would only lead to problems...
On Oct. 29, Bear suggested a Whitcomb 65 tonner & Karl seconded it. Has anybody seen the Conemaugh & Black Lick's bold script lettering on these units? WOW! With that paint scheme, the hobby shops would have a hard time keeping them on the shelves. I'll bet people who don't know (or care) where the C&BL is, would be buying them. And it would open up a market for SW1's, NW2's, and SW7's lettered the same.
Tom
Kinda along the lines of what Nittany said about Amtrak baggage and Viewliners:
I really want (and need) HO Amtrak Horizon cars in IVb. Model availability in proportion to prototype usage is crazy small. Yes, I know Walthers did them already, but they're darn near impossible to find. I would be thrilled if Walthers ran them again; my Missouri River Runner looks odd with a string of Amcans.
UP 4-12-2:
Surely ANY articulated (maybe excepting a Triplex or a 2-10-10-2) can handle any curve that can be negotiated be the 4-12-2 after which you're named. However, I will concede that the non-prototypical design may make it easier to distribute the weight for optimal traction. So maybe it's a trade-off: Accurate design or better performance. I like the idea of having an accurate design, then tweaking it to get the best performance practicable.
If Intermountain has commercial success with the 4-8-8-2, maybe they'll consider using that basic mechanism for a good EM-1 or maybe the DM&IR 2-8-8-4 mentioned a short while ago. (Or an NP Z-5 or SP AC-9)
tstage Joe, I was speaking of the NYC 4-8-2 L-4a Mohawks. BLI released them in 2009 and they were outfitted with a QSI sound decoder. Tom
Joe,
I was speaking of the NYC 4-8-2 L-4a Mohawks. BLI released them in 2009 and they were outfitted with a QSI sound decoder.
Oh I'm sorry. I didn't even know they made Mohawks. If you get around to it can you post a picture of it or is a picture of it on your website?
Joe C
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Yes, sir, I can understand...but then you've also eliminated so many potential would-be buyers that there likely wouldn't be enough remaining to pay for such an animal--in suitable sales....
UP 4-12-2 ACY So I guess I'm adding another request to manufacturers: Articulated that are hinged like the real ones, and can pull. No need to ask for correct proportions & details. That goes without saying. Impossible--the real ones had a fixed "rear engine" ie rear set of drivers. With "correct proportions & details" these models will require a minimum of 48" HO scale radius to operate--just like most of the brass ones require.
ACY So I guess I'm adding another request to manufacturers: Articulated that are hinged like the real ones, and can pull. No need to ask for correct proportions & details. That goes without saying.
So I guess I'm adding another request to manufacturers: Articulated that are hinged like the real ones, and can pull. No need to ask for correct proportions & details. That goes without saying.
Impossible--the real ones had a fixed "rear engine" ie rear set of drivers. With "correct proportions & details" these models will require a minimum of 48" HO scale radius to operate--just like most of the brass ones require.
To make them go around 24" radius, without the rear drivers pivoting, and without cheating the balance point of the boiler, and other needed compromises--is mathematically impossible unless perhaps you only want a small 2-6-6-2. The "correct details" of plumbing and fixtures will get in the way, and to pivot like the prototype requires much larger radius than HO scale 24" radius, because the prototype could never in a million years operate on that.
Poor puller or not, she's beautiful. I think I'd check weight distribution. That can be a major factor, particularly with Articulateds. Lots of moving stuff that could affect performance.
As for a less expensive version, the plastic engines can be nice, pricewise; but they don't always match up to the better brass stuff when it comes to detail. I got one Bachmann B&O EM-1 and it made me gun-shy. It needs to have a lot of details added or corrected in order to deserve a roundhouse stall beside my other EM-1's. Some of the UP and N&W Artic's from other producers are a lot better in this regard. Back in the '70's, I remember a display at a hobby shop in the Chicago area. Several state-of-the-art brass SP Cab Forwards were displayed with the then-new AHM SP 4-8-8-2. Right out of the box, the Plastic engine looked every bit as good as the more expensive brass ones. That was 40 years ago. It sure isn't true of the Bachmann EM-1 today. I also dislike Articulateds that don't hinge like the prototype, and that's what you get with the plastic ones.
I'd like to see a DMIR version of the Bachman 2-8-8-4 with a Centipede tender for a similar price. Also BN/BNSF new taconite cars priced so one could afford 60 or so. Same with the new CN/DMIR taconite cars.
While we're at it a Ford Super Duty crew cab pickup set up for Hy Rail. Maybe some similar trucks with utility boxes. This is the one most universal model for modern railroading that is not produced. They are everywhere.
ACYIf you can afford it, Sunset recently produced the Z-6 and Z-8, but I'm sure you're thinking about something more easily affordable.
Doesn't pull worth a darn. Couldn't even get 20 cars up a 2% grade. Going to try bullfrog snot and see if that makes a difference.
I'm still waiting for a plastic or hybrid R-T-R model of Canadian Pacific's D10g-h-j-k 4-6-0 steamer. They had more in this series (500+) than some railroads had in their entire fleet.
Steve
Oops! That wasn't JaBear. It was Texas Zephyr. The E5 suggestion should have told me that. Sorry. But the comments still stand.
At last! We've finally corrupted JaBear to the point that he's actually thrown out nine suggestions!
Seems like a lot of these have merit. The 2 passenger cars (# 1 and 5A) would be likely candidates for Walthers. I'm not personally too familiar with the MoPac RS-3 rebuilds. Maybe this could be done as a refit kit in resin or styrene. Do they resemble the DeWitt rebuilds that Conrail did? Is there a possibility that the model could be marketed to a wider market, by making it a match for more than just the MoPac engines?
Seems like any manufacturer who makes a decent E6 (or even an E7) could work up an E5 A&B. If not, then it could be a project for somebody to do in resin, to slip over an existing E6 chassis. N scalers can gloat over this one. It was recently produced.
As for no. 7, PFM proved in the 1960's that GN was a road with a lot of appeal to customers. The ATSF Prairie might be a harder sell, but you never know.
If you can afford it, Sunset recently produced the Z-6 and Z-8, but I'm sure you're thinking about something more easily affordable. The idea has merit. The engines were drop-dead beautiful and were operated by NP, SP&S, GN, and I think Undec/Freelance had a few too!
Idea no. 8 sounds good too. Something along the lines of the Yardmaster series by Branchline (I think Atlas has those patterns now).
Texas Zepher8. Equivalent of the ubiquitous Athearn Blue Box - simple model kits that just work well, look OK, priced for the masses, buildable by interested children, and can endure clumsy operators.
Thankfully Accurail is still staying with kits for now. Proto 2000, Intermountain, and Red Caboose are all starting to get more and more difficult to find in kit form anymore. No reason to rehash that topic though...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
"JaBear" in Feb 1960, E.Morrell was asking the manufacturers for nickel silver track , "........and sold it at a reasonable price. I'm sure they'd have a shock when they saw how fast it was being bought up. I'll wager that in 3 years, every HO railroad in the country would roll on nickel silver."
I knew it had been around a long time before the general MR community discovered it. I had my first piece of nickel-silver track (Atlas flex on fiber ties) in 1965, but even so I continued to use brass. Seems like it was 1984 or so when the flood gates were finally opened and it was embraced as the way to go. I remember when (but not the date) when brass was discontinued and put on the clearance rack of the hobby store. The #6 turnouts still flew off the shelf.
Back to the topic at hand. After thinking about it for a while ... I still want (of course most of these have the same issues of a very limited market).
1. CB&Q square end tail car from the last Denver and Kansas City Zephyrs.2. NP Z5 (Yellowstone), Z6, Z7, Z8 (Challengers)3. C&S E54. NP pig palace and BIG pig palaces5. NCL BUDD 4-4-6 Dome Sleeper (actually I'm guessing Walther's will eventually do this.)5. MP RS-3 rebuilds with EMD prime mover such that they had 4 exhaust stacks.6. AT&SF heavy Prairie 19xx class.7. ANY of the GN steam locos with the Belpair Firebox.8. Equivalent of the ubiquitous Athearn Blue Box - simple model kits that just work well, look OK, priced for the masses, buildable by interested children, and can endure clumsy operators.
The manufacturers actually do look at the online surveys.
A couple years ago the number one most requested diesel in various online surveys was the Alco C-430.
Even though Bowser doesn't have or take time to respond to online forum discussions, they took note of that and are making the C-430. It didn't hurt that a number of people personally called them about making that particular engine as well. Even though it has a unique frame length and unique 4 axle hi-ad trucks that can only be used on a C-415, they still chose to do it.
What would I like to see? How about some "correct" name trains that Walthers or Rapido haven't done.
I think the Rock Island/SP "Golden State Limited", with its bright red and stainless steel finish, would be really neat--and a likely good seller as it would appeal to both Rock Island and SP fans.
I'd like to see the all-purple ACL rebuilt coach done in HO--I think that would be neat and would sell.
I'd like to see the PRR original paint scheme (yellow, silver, Brunswick green roof) "East Wind" in something other than brass. Some of the cars are standard PRR coaches, and could also be done in the regular, off-season, PRR paint schemes--so there would be considerable cross-over there. Also some of the cars were from ACL, etc. I think doing a neat name train like the "East Wind" would appeal to eastern road modelers.
Also the Atlantic Coast Line "Champion" or Seaboard Air Line "Silver Meteor". We already have the motive power to pull these trains readily available.
Omigosh! did we convert DaBear? After years of trying to forget the 0-2-0 article, with the help of some very expensive therapy, I get reminded of it again. Oh well..... Back to the head shrinker. JaBear makes a really god point about the 65T Whitcomb. I can picture a lot of steel mill guys and shortline operators who would go nuts for that one.
The ditch light idea seems like a natural for modern day guys, and I wonder if Steemtrayn and kbkchooch should have patented their ideas about removable weights and fuel tank punchouts for speakers before they posted them.
Is the Lima switcher idea getting traction? I think Lima used frames that were dimensionally the same as Baldwin frames, so Bowser would probably be the best bet for that one. As for the FM H20-44, Atlas would seem to be a natural. They should still have access to the tooling that was used on their H15/16-44, and a lot of that could be used on the H20. For that matter, a rerun of the H15/16-44 would be nice. They were pretty scarce at the last show at Timonium.
steemtrayn How about weights with removable sections for decoder installations? If you want to add a decoder, just remove the section, no milling nrcessary. If you want more weight, just leave it in place.
How about weights with removable sections for decoder installations? If you want to add a decoder, just remove the section, no milling nrcessary. If you want more weight, just leave it in place.
Stellar idea Dave, but lets go further (while were dreaming)!! Removable weights for decoders with fuel tank punch outs for speakers!!!
Ever put sound in a Proto GP9 while retaining as much weight as possible?? It gets ugly!
Especially when the nose gets chopped, you lose even more space. I've done a bunch this way, it's not fun!
Karl
NCE über alles!
kbkchooch richhotrain I'd like to see Atlas produce flex track. Rich I was waiting for this to come up, thanks Rich!!
richhotrain I'd like to see Atlas produce flex track. Rich
I'd like to see Atlas produce flex track.
Rich
I was waiting for this to come up, thanks Rich!!
I tried not to, but I simply could not resist.
Alton Junction
ACY The old Bachmann RDG I-10 can be found at swap meets now & then. I wonder whether a mechanism from the newer Bachmann 2-8-0 could be put under that old boiler.
The old Bachmann RDG I-10 can be found at swap meets now & then. I wonder whether a mechanism from the newer Bachmann 2-8-0 could be put under that old boiler.
No need to. If you look hard enough, you can find them with the can motor from Bachmann. For a 3 or 4 year period, prior to the "new" 2-8-0, Bachmann produced them under their "Plus" line. From the outside they look identical to the train set version, remove off the shell and there is a split frame chassis with a can motor inside! I've got 2 of them and they run as nice as my newer Consols.
Bear, I agree with the 65 ton Whitcomb unit, done in brass eons ago. I want this one in particular.