brianmarieHow would you rank the following brands of steam locomotives from best to worst with regards to being a strong puller, quiet, smooth operating, quality, etc.? (f) Kato
(f) Kato
For HO scale I would have to put Trix at the top.
Bowser is hands down the best puller.
I think my Genesis is the most quiet.
richhotrain doctorwayne richhotrain The very best is Proto Heritage, and it is not even on the list. Perhaps you're the only one who got a good one, Rich. While my 0-8-0 was a smooth runner, it couldn't pull more than 3 cars up a 2.5% grade, and almost all of the piping on it was undersize. The undersize drivers on their Berkshire was reason enough for me to not even buy it. I did manage to re-work the 0-8-0 to handle eight cars up the same grade, and figured then that it was worthwhile to re-pipe it, too. Wayne I have three Proto Heritage Berkshires, C&O, NKP, and PM. Sometimes, I run all three on the layout, each pulling its own load. They are beautiful to see in action, and they run great, no pulling problems. Wayne, you should have bought one. Rich
doctorwayne richhotrain The very best is Proto Heritage, and it is not even on the list. Perhaps you're the only one who got a good one, Rich. While my 0-8-0 was a smooth runner, it couldn't pull more than 3 cars up a 2.5% grade, and almost all of the piping on it was undersize. The undersize drivers on their Berkshire was reason enough for me to not even buy it. I did manage to re-work the 0-8-0 to handle eight cars up the same grade, and figured then that it was worthwhile to re-pipe it, too. Wayne
richhotrain The very best is Proto Heritage, and it is not even on the list.
The very best is Proto Heritage, and it is not even on the list.
Perhaps you're the only one who got a good one, Rich. While my 0-8-0 was a smooth runner, it couldn't pull more than 3 cars up a 2.5% grade, and almost all of the piping on it was undersize. The undersize drivers on their Berkshire was reason enough for me to not even buy it. I did manage to re-work the 0-8-0 to handle eight cars up the same grade, and figured then that it was worthwhile to re-pipe it, too.
Wayne
I have three Proto Heritage Berkshires, C&O, NKP, and PM. Sometimes, I run all three on the layout, each pulling its own load. They are beautiful to see in action, and they run great, no pulling problems.
Wayne, you should have bought one.
Rich
I have two of the 0-8-0's, one old one without traction tires, one new one with traction tires - big difference in pulling - but on my layout no switchers need to work 2% grades, so it works out fine.
As for the piping - I'm just not that picky anymore. Undersized piping is more acceptable than the oversized cast metal running boards on an MTH Berkshire.
Sheldon
brianmarie How would you rank the following brands of steam locomotives from best to worst with regards to being a strong puller, quiet, smooth operating, quality, etc.? (a) Broadway Limited (b) Bowser (c) Spectrum (d) Genesis (e) Mantua (f) Kato (g) Rivarossi (h) IHC (i) Roundhouse (j) Bachmann Plus Thanks
How would you rank the following brands of steam locomotives from best to worst with regards to being a strong puller, quiet, smooth operating, quality, etc.?
(a) Broadway Limited
(b) Bowser
(c) Spectrum
(d) Genesis
(e) Mantua
(g) Rivarossi
(h) IHC
(i) Roundhouse
(j) Bachmann Plus
Thanks
Respectfully, I would summit that your question is flawed. The problem is that not every product from any of these companies is equal to every other produict from that same company in quality, performance or detail.
Each individual loco deserves its own "rating" without regard for the name on the box.
I have lots of Spectrum locos that are top notch, I also know that some other Spectrum models are problematic.
I have BLI locos which were very poor runners until completely rebuilt, yet many people have had great success with those products.
Some of the products you list will never touch my layout for reasons not related to quality.
So here are a few that I consider good locos - based on personal experiance:
Spectrum
4-8-2 USRA Heavy Mountian
2-8-0
2-8-4 Berkshire (actually regular line, but nearly Spectrum in most regards)
4-6-0 Ten Wheeler
2-10-2 USRA Santa Fe
2-6-6-2 - both versions C&O H5 and H4
2-8-8-4 B&O EM-1
Proto2000
2-8-8-2 USRA/N&W Y3
0-8-0 USRA switcher
0-6-0 USRA switcher
BLI/PCM
4-6-2 USRA Light, and generic "heavy" versions
4-8-4 READING T1
2-6-6-4 N&W Class A
DISCLAIMER - All my locos are DC only, no sound. If they came with DCC or sound it has been completely removed. Dual mode DCC decoders are not compatable with my control system and generally provide poor performaance on DC.
For the 0-8-0, I used prototype photos as a reference, and the project involved more than the piping. Other work included moving some of the fittings and appliances, lowering the running boards and creating new air tanks, then mounting them well inboard of the original position. I also lengthened the frame at the front to accommodate the CNR-style front end, and modifying the rear of the frame somewhat, too. Loco and tender both got built-up footboards and the tender was modified to match photos. I also opened-up the coal bunker area, then created a bunker in order to use a loose coal load in the tender.
If you don't have prototype photos to follow, an excellent resource for detailing steam (and understanding the purpose of the various appliances and their piping) is Model Railroader's Cyclopedia - Volume 1 - Steam Locomotives.
To re-pipe (or add pipe to an existing loco), I use brass or phosphor bronze wire, and wherever possible, drill holes into which the ends of each pipe can be attached. On long pipe runs, it's good practice to add attachment points at appropriate intervals - this can be as simple as drilling a hole in the boiler and looping some fine wire around the pipe, then inserting the ends into the hole and folding them over. A drop of ca will make it secure.
To get us somewhat back on-topic, a well-running loco with a so-so appearance can be upgraded with better details to elevate its over-all rating.
It's off-topic--I apologize--but Wayne's post has me wondering just how to (re)pipe. Are there sources apart from the various MR articles on scratchbuilding locos? What materials are used? Assuming you can follow a photograph for the arrangement, are there some pipes that are absolutely essential for a realistic look and others that would just be frosting on the cake, so to speak? I'd like to add a little more detail to my Athearn/Roundhouse 2-8-0 and don't really know where to start. Thanks.
richhotrain zstripe zstripe Rich, Did you sell your F7,ABBA Genesis set ?,Huh Huh. Cheers, Frank Rich, I know what you are going to say. The OP, said steam. LOL Frank, that was my first inclination, to point out that the OP said steam, but my question is, why would you think that I was going to sell my Athearn Genesis F7 ABBA consist? Rich
zstripe zstripe Rich, Did you sell your F7,ABBA Genesis set ?,Huh Huh. Cheers, Frank Rich, I know what you are going to say. The OP, said steam.
zstripe Rich, Did you sell your F7,ABBA Genesis set ?,Huh Huh. Cheers, Frank
Rich,
Did you sell your F7,ABBA Genesis set ?,Huh Huh.
Cheers,
Frank
I know what you are going to say. The OP, said steam.
LOL
Frank, that was my first inclination, to point out that the OP said steam, but my question is, why would you think that I was going to sell my Athearn Genesis F7 ABBA consist?
Maybe,You got hit in the head with a Golf ball?
Alton Junction
zstripe richhotrain The very best is Proto Heritage, and it is not even on the list. BLI is second. Bachmann Spectrum is OK, but not near the top. That's all I got. Rich Rich, Did you sell your F7,ABBA Genesis set ?,Huh Huh. Cheers, Frank
richhotrain The very best is Proto Heritage, and it is not even on the list. BLI is second. Bachmann Spectrum is OK, but not near the top. That's all I got. Rich
BLI is second.
Bachmann Spectrum is OK, but not near the top.
That's all I got.
P.S. To Topic: PFM,Balboa,Mantua kit Bowser kit,Bachmann Spectrum,Tyco,0-4-0,combo's of,2-8-2',2-8-4's,2-8-0's,0-4-0's,0-6-0's, some are very old Brass,some are kit's and some are new,they all run good and that is all I ask for. ''Be Happy in Your Work''.
brianmarie How would you rank the following brands of steam locomotives from best to worst with regards to being a strong puller, quiet, smooth operating, quality, etc.?......
How would you rank the following brands of steam locomotives from best to worst with regards to being a strong puller, quiet, smooth operating, quality, etc.?......
The answers you get will likely be all over the place, as you don't refer to any specific wheel arrangement or type or locomotive: freight? passenger? switcher? large loco? small loco? A locomotive which is a good puller could have poor details, or a smooth runner have no pulling abilities.
Perhaps you're the only one who got a good one, Rich. While my 0-8-0 was a smooth runner, it couldn't pull more than 3 cars up a 2.5% grade, and almost all of the piping on it was undersize. The undersize drivers on their Berkshire was reason enough for me to not even buy it.I did manage to re-work the 0-8-0 to handle eight cars up the same grade, and figured then that it was worthwhile to re-pipe it, too:
richhotrain BLI is second. Bachmann Spectrum is OK, but not near the top. That's all I got. Rich
I have purchased quite a few new HO Steam locomotives in the past several months.
Based on what my experiences,this is how they would fall:
1. Trix/Marklin (Have three Big Boys and two Mikados)No QC issues Grade A
2. BLI (Have about twenty Paragon 2's and more on the way),No QC issues Grade A-
3. MTH (Have about a dozen big steam and more on order)minor QC issues Grade B+
4. Spectrum and Genesis - Nine engines .(Tie) Minor QC issues,so-so pullers. Grade B
5. Proto 2000,only have two,no issues,so-so pullers.Grade B
I don't have any of the other makes on hand. I have owned 1960-70s' AHM/Rivarossi and Mantua 1960's steam locomotives in the past.They are not in the same universe as the above locomotives.
I highly recommend any of the above six makes,I recommend having your dealer test run the engine.Also,all these engine ran better after a few hours of running and breaking in the mechanism.
Enjoy!
Since I assembled most of my steam locos from kits, carefully tweaking them to correct potential problems, I can't name which are better than the others. Manufacturers include Adachi, Tenshodo, Katsumi, Kato, Toby and Kawai.
Of course, all of them are built to 1:80 scale, and are models of 42 inch gauge Japanese prototypes.
I have one Bachmann Spectrum 0-6-0T and one Roundhouse 0-6-0T. The Bachmann is a nice little Alco teakettle with a small can motor. The Roundhouse, a Baldwin with a truly ugly Chinese-made open frame motor, is not so nice. Both are 'close enough' to locos exported to Japan before WWI.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
From my own experience:
BLI: Very smooth, very quiet, decent pulling power (unless you add the optional tires), great quality. May require adjustment out of the box, though.
Bowser: Smooth, not quiet but not loud, mega pulling, and good quality. Difficulty to assemble varies.
Spectrum: Very smooth and quiet, decent power, good quality. Some QC issues, but Bachmann has a good warranty.
Genesis: I only have the old Mikado. It's quiet, good quality, and the smoothest runner I've got. Not a good puller though, and many have gear problems (NWSL has replacements). I think newer Genesis is more BLI level.
Mantua: Some are smooth, some are just OK, and they're quiet, strong pullers. Quality is good, but not as good as Bowser.
Rivarossi: Old ones are smooth runners (after tuning), but not always quiet, and they're light weight. Newer ones are excellent runners with better traction and quality, but except for the Allegheny and Heisler, electrical pickup isn't great.
IHC: Smooth and very quiet, moderate pulling, and good quality. Some of the best budget steam around.
Roundhouse: Smooth and strong, but most aren't exactly quiet. Easy to build (minus the Shay), and decent quality.
Bachmann Plus/Standard: Hit and miss. Some are very smooth, quiet runners with decent traction and a step above IHC in quality and detail, but others have issues with QC and reliability.
Standard Life-Like (like the $20 range stuff): I'm more forgiving than most, but these are bad. LL's only good steam is the Heritage stuff (which I don't have, so I can't tell you about it).
_________________________________________________________________
,
(a) Broadway Limited- Excellent detail and good pulling power.
(b) Bowser- Super pulling power, but requires some skill to assemble and detail properly.
(c) Spectrum- Good detail, but not that great of a puller in my opinion.
(d) Genesis- Good detail and good pulling power.
(e) Mantua- Poor details but decent pulling power.
(f) Kato- The Rolls Royce of trains.
(g) Rivarossi- Good detail and good pulling power.
(h) IHC- Poor details and poor pulling power.
(i) Roundhouse- Decent Detail, but again some skill required to assemble the kits. RTR not too good.
(j) Bachmann Plus- Bottom of the barrel.
Just my opinions.
MTH steamers can be close-coupled, but only by talking to the parts dept and ordering a drawbar for a different engine that is shorter. I was able to get one that was perfect for my 4449.
Hal
At the top of the list for quality would be Trix. Out of business for N. American steam purposes.
I have a Lionel HO Challenger that is wonderfully reliable and a strong puller. Details almost average. Out of production as of about 2003.
Next would be Proto 2000 Heritage Series, the most detailed and pretty, but they tend to be light pullers. Can't have it all, I guess.
Next would be BLI/Genesis/Rivarossi/MTH. I have the Rivarossi Allegheny H-8 which I like very much. It is very reliable. I have maybe 16 BLI locomotives. Their running quality varies, but their details and appearance quality is on par with the others. Generally, they run well and reliably.
Bachmann Spectrum has(d) some excellent runners such as their Consolidation 2-8-0 and their Heavy Mountain 4-8-2. I believe their 2-6-6-2 is also a good engine. Their J Class 4-8-4 was hit and miss. They had problems with a recent issue of their Shays. I have seen no reviews of their Climax.
I know little about MTH. They are apparently as reliable as BLI locomotives, generally, but there is no provision for close coupling in some instances. Details-wise, about the same as BLI.
-Crandell
I agree, add Proto2000 and add MTH. As far as pulling power, Bowser and good quality--details maybe not as great. My Bachmann Spectrum has been a good surprise, had to replace decoder however.
I would put Rivarossi, Athearn Genesis, IHC toward the bottom for steamers. Unfortunately I have too many of them-lol. I can't remember a Kato steamer.
Richard
Brian,
I assume you are primarily interested in HO-scale? Wow! - NO Proto 2000 included in the list? And, in all fairness, MTH should probably be included, as well.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Forneys would be the only steam locomotives found on the Roue of the Broadway Lion, so whoever might make them would be the one to use.
Ergo: If you must have a particular locomotive, you must get it from someone who makes it.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS