I'll show you how to do a dual gauge coupler install in a moment. First some background on my layout's dual gauge track. Then I'll discuss available track and products to help you get going with dual gauge. I'll add more thoughts on planning and operating dual gauge lines after that as I get a chance.
With all the interest in HOn3 stirred up by Blackstone's marvelous line of RTR narrowgauge, more people than ever are planning on how to work narrowgauge into their layout plans. In the pre-Blackstone days, many were said to include an interchange with a standard gauge line as a way budding narrowgaugers could ensure they had something that actually ran while fiddling with the 3 foot line. With Blackstone, there's no need to do that, of course, but modeling a standard gauge/narrowgauge junction and transfer point is still an attractive theme.
On my layout, narrowgauge dominates. I added Rio Grande standard gauge, it is true, to have something running. But it's also the case that modeling Colorado narrowgauge makes such a junction theme tempting. In a few cases, there was just a simple cross-platform transfer at the break in gauge. But in Colorado, because the Rio Grande was dominant and operated both SG and NG lines, it was very common to see dual gauge track in use. This sort of track is just so visually interesting it's very tempting to model.
I would have liked to include Alamosa and it's extensive dual gauge yards. But there just wasn't room to do that and do justice to my desire to model the Silverton Branch and the three "little lines" Otto Mears built from there up to the mines. Hold the presses, I had a great idea.
If you know your history, Durango actually WAS dual gauge for a brief time. To counter a potential Southern Pacific intrusion onto its turf, the Rio Grande built a standard gauge line south from Durango to Farmington, NM. All the SG locos, rolling stock, etc were imported in across Cumbres Pass, a line which was also anticipated would eventually be standard gauged. After some years, the odd set-up, lack of threat from the SP, and the fact that the narrowgauge would eventually be abandoned rather then widened caused the Rio Grande to do an unusual thing and narrowed the Farmington Branch to 3 feet in the early 1920s.
My layout assumes that instead of widening the Cumbres Pass line, the Rio Grande built SG in from Utah through Moab to Durango and then down to Grants, NM. With lots of business still on the NG, Durango became a busy junction and transfer point with considerable dual gauge track.
I've built a number of kits and modified other items to take advantage of the charms of dual gauge. Here a looks at my latest creation, a now dual gauge coupler equipped Atlas H15-44 road-switcher. Keep in mind that this mod can be applied to almost any diesel loco. I've already converted a Bachmann 44-tonner to dual gauge couplers.
I base my design on the arrangement of couplers on the Rio Grande Models #3026 dual gauge idler car.
http://www.riograndemodels.com/HO.htm
It uses a Kadee 714 coupler for the SG coupler paired with a Micro-Trains 1015 coupler for the NG side. You can experiment with other couplers, but the reason these work well together in this application is because the size of their draft gear allows them to nestle close enough to serve both gauge cars. This mod will work on any loco with a coupler mounting pad wide enough to hold both couplers. There are other ways to solve this if you mounting pad isn't wide enough, just ask.
Take the shell off the loco. It comes with standard Kadee-like clone couplers. However, the mounting hole for it places it too far back to use with the 714. On the Atlas H15-44, there is just enough metal to drill and tap a second mounting hole for the 714 closer to the endbeam.
Next, cut off the mounting ear on the side the NG coupler needs to be off-set to. This is something I will discuss in more detail later, but what's important now is to mark the side of the loco that the coupler should be offset so you don't get mixed up. Both NG couplers should end up on one side in virtually all cases. Once you've done that and are sure of what to cut, cut away.
Drill and tap the hole for the NG coupler 15 scale inches (1.25 scale feet) offset from the centerline where the SG coupler sits. Here I've fitted a 714 box next to the 1015 to verify clearance. The 714 draft gear may need a slight trimming.
The end plate of the shell will need some trimming to allow room for the NG coupler.
The 714 should mount at about the right height. The 1015 will likely be too high. Here's a pic of that. After some checking with the Kadee gauge, shims are installed to lower the NG coupler. They can be seen peeking through in white. Here's pics of one of my RGM dual gauge idler cars. It has standard gauge trucks, plus the two couplers on each end. Makes a neat little train for handling local switching. As I noted, with care this conversion can be applied to lots of locos. I'll be back later to add more about dual gauge.
The 714 should mount at about the right height. The 1015 will likely be too high. Here's a pic of that.
After some checking with the Kadee gauge, shims are installed to lower the NG coupler. They can be seen peeking through in white. Here's pics of one of my RGM dual gauge idler cars. It has standard gauge trucks, plus the two couplers on each end. Makes a neat little train for handling local switching. As I noted, with care this conversion can be applied to lots of locos. I'll be back later to add more about dual gauge.
After some checking with the Kadee gauge, shims are installed to lower the NG coupler. They can be seen peeking through in white.
Here's pics of one of my RGM dual gauge idler cars. It has standard gauge trucks, plus the two couplers on each end. Makes a neat little train for handling local switching. As I noted, with care this conversion can be applied to lots of locos. I'll be back later to add more about dual gauge.
Here's pics of one of my RGM dual gauge idler cars. It has standard gauge trucks, plus the two couplers on each end.
Makes a neat little train for handling local switching. As I noted, with care this conversion can be applied to lots of locos. I'll be back later to add more about dual gauge.
Makes a neat little train for handling local switching.
As I noted, with care this conversion can be applied to lots of locos. I'll be back later to add more about dual gauge.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Awwwwww Gee Mike, an actual hands-on modelling thread on the forum this week, whats the world coming to ??!!!
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
"JaBear"Awwwwww Gee Mike, an actual hands-on modelling thread on the forum this week, whats the world coming to ??!!!
Bear,
Yeah, what is the world coming to when we start discussing modeling, instead of wasting time on pricewhining or the NMRA-ate-my-layout threads?
I've posted this pic before, but decided to re-document it here. If the Atlas is too rich for your blood, then use a Bachmann 44-tonner. I had to fabricate a mount out of plastic for it, but still a fairly simple install. One issue that came up with it you do have to watch is having enough clearance behind the end beam so you modified couplers don't interfere with the truck. For this model, I extended the end beams a little over a foot to deal with that, but she still looks good.
OK, lets start with a dual gauge track primer, because this can get confusing -- I know.The only RTR dual-gauge HO/HOn3 track components are made by Shinohara. These are good, reliable turnouts, although not cheap. They are code 70 rail. Nothing dual gauge is cheap, BTW. They suffer from a bit of sloppy tolerances in the frogs -- every dual gauge turnouts has three frogs -- causing a slight bobble when rolling stock passes through. Beyond that, it's either custom builders or build your own. FastTracks does make dual gauge jigs. Track itself is pretty limited, all code 70 AFAIK. Shinohara has dual-gauge track in HO/HOn3. I prefer Mirco-Engineering track myself. Not sure about any others. Instead of just right and left turnouts, dual gauge has 4 types, 2 right and 2 left. This is to account for which side the common rail is on. Pictures do it better than words. Note the notation of II_I, etc shows how the rails are arranged when looking from the single track end at the points. Right, II_I Right, I_II Left, I_II Left, II_I Next thing to figure out is which side you want the rail on when it goes through towns. Passengers and freight being loaded or unloaded figures into this. Consider a SG boxcar and a NG boxcar both on the same dual-gauge next to a freighthouse. If the common rail is on the side next to the warehouse, it avoids a big gap between the dock door and the boxcar. If the common rail is on the side away from the freight door, then it's a long reach to access the NG car. Also consider passenger stations. The preference is to not have passengers stepping over the standard gauge rail when boarding or unboarding from NG cars. Think all this through thoroughly, even a crude drawing helps if it's accurate. If you order turnouts either RTR or custom made, you don't want to guess at what you need, as they are too expensive and won't fit...aaargh! BTDT with a couple. But before you draw, more complications... LoopsI have a return loop for turning passenger trains at Durango. It runs along the base of the hill in the left mid-ground then goes around the back of the roundhouse, etc. But it is only HOn3. Don't know why? Make a drawing of both rails, showing the 3rd rail properly oriented as it enters and circles the loop. What happens to the 3rd rail when you get almost back to the beginning? Dang! Wrong side! Draw it yourself if you don't believe. There is a solution, which is to buy or build a "draw" (there are other names for it, like "swish," etc), which uses a set of opposite facing points to move the 3rd rail side from one side to the other. BTW, the same thing happens with a wye and it has the same solution, to install a draw on one leg of the wye. It's your choice whether to do a dual-gauge loop or wye with the added complication of a draw. In my case, I chickened out and built the loop 3 foot only. Turning locos does get complicated under dual-gauge by the fact that the extra couplers are offset to one side or the other, but usually not both sides. You need to have it properly oriented to run on the dual-gauge track, unless you're using a bunch of draws to go back and forth like a drunken sailor... Then there are turntables. Obviously, the could swap a 3rd rail just by turning, but the what about going into the stalls? Typically, dual-gauge turntables use 4 rails, with the NG centered between the SG rails. Same for the stall or finger tracks. The approaches to the TT can be separate by gauge (easier) or can be dual-gauge and utilize special draws to center the track just before moving onto the TT. Once again, I chickened out and have a NG-only service area served by my 3 foot gauge TT. It's these sort of design decisions that you need to fret over when designing dual gauge track. There's also the fact that while dual-gauge can handle both SG and NG, they both can't occupy the same space on that track. Be sure to leave enough room for all your SG and NG ops, or you may need to add another track or two to accommodate the cars of one or the other, as I recently did to hold SG cars in Durango. Just too much NG stuff going on to devote one of the precious dual gauge tracks to SG storage. Back later with more...
OK, lets start with a dual gauge track primer, because this can get confusing -- I know.The only RTR dual-gauge HO/HOn3 track components are made by Shinohara. These are good, reliable turnouts, although not cheap. They are code 70 rail. Nothing dual gauge is cheap, BTW. They suffer from a bit of sloppy tolerances in the frogs -- every dual gauge turnouts has three frogs -- causing a slight bobble when rolling stock passes through.
Beyond that, it's either custom builders or build your own. FastTracks does make dual gauge jigs.
Track itself is pretty limited, all code 70 AFAIK. Shinohara has dual-gauge track in HO/HOn3. I prefer Mirco-Engineering track myself. Not sure about any others.
Instead of just right and left turnouts, dual gauge has 4 types, 2 right and 2 left. This is to account for which side the common rail is on. Pictures do it better than words. Note the notation of II_I, etc shows how the rails are arranged when looking from the single track end at the points.
Right, II_I
Right, I_II Left, I_II Left, II_I Next thing to figure out is which side you want the rail on when it goes through towns. Passengers and freight being loaded or unloaded figures into this. Consider a SG boxcar and a NG boxcar both on the same dual-gauge next to a freighthouse. If the common rail is on the side next to the warehouse, it avoids a big gap between the dock door and the boxcar. If the common rail is on the side away from the freight door, then it's a long reach to access the NG car. Also consider passenger stations. The preference is to not have passengers stepping over the standard gauge rail when boarding or unboarding from NG cars. Think all this through thoroughly, even a crude drawing helps if it's accurate. If you order turnouts either RTR or custom made, you don't want to guess at what you need, as they are too expensive and won't fit...aaargh! BTDT with a couple. But before you draw, more complications... LoopsI have a return loop for turning passenger trains at Durango. It runs along the base of the hill in the left mid-ground then goes around the back of the roundhouse, etc. But it is only HOn3. Don't know why? Make a drawing of both rails, showing the 3rd rail properly oriented as it enters and circles the loop. What happens to the 3rd rail when you get almost back to the beginning? Dang! Wrong side! Draw it yourself if you don't believe. There is a solution, which is to buy or build a "draw" (there are other names for it, like "swish," etc), which uses a set of opposite facing points to move the 3rd rail side from one side to the other. BTW, the same thing happens with a wye and it has the same solution, to install a draw on one leg of the wye. It's your choice whether to do a dual-gauge loop or wye with the added complication of a draw. In my case, I chickened out and built the loop 3 foot only. Turning locos does get complicated under dual-gauge by the fact that the extra couplers are offset to one side or the other, but usually not both sides. You need to have it properly oriented to run on the dual-gauge track, unless you're using a bunch of draws to go back and forth like a drunken sailor... Then there are turntables. Obviously, the could swap a 3rd rail just by turning, but the what about going into the stalls? Typically, dual-gauge turntables use 4 rails, with the NG centered between the SG rails. Same for the stall or finger tracks. The approaches to the TT can be separate by gauge (easier) or can be dual-gauge and utilize special draws to center the track just before moving onto the TT. Once again, I chickened out and have a NG-only service area served by my 3 foot gauge TT. It's these sort of design decisions that you need to fret over when designing dual gauge track. There's also the fact that while dual-gauge can handle both SG and NG, they both can't occupy the same space on that track. Be sure to leave enough room for all your SG and NG ops, or you may need to add another track or two to accommodate the cars of one or the other, as I recently did to hold SG cars in Durango. Just too much NG stuff going on to devote one of the precious dual gauge tracks to SG storage. Back later with more...
Right, I_II
Left, I_II Left, II_I Next thing to figure out is which side you want the rail on when it goes through towns. Passengers and freight being loaded or unloaded figures into this. Consider a SG boxcar and a NG boxcar both on the same dual-gauge next to a freighthouse. If the common rail is on the side next to the warehouse, it avoids a big gap between the dock door and the boxcar. If the common rail is on the side away from the freight door, then it's a long reach to access the NG car. Also consider passenger stations. The preference is to not have passengers stepping over the standard gauge rail when boarding or unboarding from NG cars. Think all this through thoroughly, even a crude drawing helps if it's accurate. If you order turnouts either RTR or custom made, you don't want to guess at what you need, as they are too expensive and won't fit...aaargh! BTDT with a couple. But before you draw, more complications... LoopsI have a return loop for turning passenger trains at Durango. It runs along the base of the hill in the left mid-ground then goes around the back of the roundhouse, etc. But it is only HOn3. Don't know why? Make a drawing of both rails, showing the 3rd rail properly oriented as it enters and circles the loop. What happens to the 3rd rail when you get almost back to the beginning? Dang! Wrong side! Draw it yourself if you don't believe. There is a solution, which is to buy or build a "draw" (there are other names for it, like "swish," etc), which uses a set of opposite facing points to move the 3rd rail side from one side to the other. BTW, the same thing happens with a wye and it has the same solution, to install a draw on one leg of the wye. It's your choice whether to do a dual-gauge loop or wye with the added complication of a draw. In my case, I chickened out and built the loop 3 foot only. Turning locos does get complicated under dual-gauge by the fact that the extra couplers are offset to one side or the other, but usually not both sides. You need to have it properly oriented to run on the dual-gauge track, unless you're using a bunch of draws to go back and forth like a drunken sailor... Then there are turntables. Obviously, the could swap a 3rd rail just by turning, but the what about going into the stalls? Typically, dual-gauge turntables use 4 rails, with the NG centered between the SG rails. Same for the stall or finger tracks. The approaches to the TT can be separate by gauge (easier) or can be dual-gauge and utilize special draws to center the track just before moving onto the TT. Once again, I chickened out and have a NG-only service area served by my 3 foot gauge TT. It's these sort of design decisions that you need to fret over when designing dual gauge track. There's also the fact that while dual-gauge can handle both SG and NG, they both can't occupy the same space on that track. Be sure to leave enough room for all your SG and NG ops, or you may need to add another track or two to accommodate the cars of one or the other, as I recently did to hold SG cars in Durango. Just too much NG stuff going on to devote one of the precious dual gauge tracks to SG storage. Back later with more...
Left, I_II
Left, II_I Next thing to figure out is which side you want the rail on when it goes through towns. Passengers and freight being loaded or unloaded figures into this. Consider a SG boxcar and a NG boxcar both on the same dual-gauge next to a freighthouse. If the common rail is on the side next to the warehouse, it avoids a big gap between the dock door and the boxcar. If the common rail is on the side away from the freight door, then it's a long reach to access the NG car. Also consider passenger stations. The preference is to not have passengers stepping over the standard gauge rail when boarding or unboarding from NG cars. Think all this through thoroughly, even a crude drawing helps if it's accurate. If you order turnouts either RTR or custom made, you don't want to guess at what you need, as they are too expensive and won't fit...aaargh! BTDT with a couple. But before you draw, more complications... LoopsI have a return loop for turning passenger trains at Durango. It runs along the base of the hill in the left mid-ground then goes around the back of the roundhouse, etc. But it is only HOn3. Don't know why? Make a drawing of both rails, showing the 3rd rail properly oriented as it enters and circles the loop. What happens to the 3rd rail when you get almost back to the beginning? Dang! Wrong side! Draw it yourself if you don't believe. There is a solution, which is to buy or build a "draw" (there are other names for it, like "swish," etc), which uses a set of opposite facing points to move the 3rd rail side from one side to the other. BTW, the same thing happens with a wye and it has the same solution, to install a draw on one leg of the wye. It's your choice whether to do a dual-gauge loop or wye with the added complication of a draw. In my case, I chickened out and built the loop 3 foot only. Turning locos does get complicated under dual-gauge by the fact that the extra couplers are offset to one side or the other, but usually not both sides. You need to have it properly oriented to run on the dual-gauge track, unless you're using a bunch of draws to go back and forth like a drunken sailor... Then there are turntables. Obviously, the could swap a 3rd rail just by turning, but the what about going into the stalls? Typically, dual-gauge turntables use 4 rails, with the NG centered between the SG rails. Same for the stall or finger tracks. The approaches to the TT can be separate by gauge (easier) or can be dual-gauge and utilize special draws to center the track just before moving onto the TT. Once again, I chickened out and have a NG-only service area served by my 3 foot gauge TT. It's these sort of design decisions that you need to fret over when designing dual gauge track. There's also the fact that while dual-gauge can handle both SG and NG, they both can't occupy the same space on that track. Be sure to leave enough room for all your SG and NG ops, or you may need to add another track or two to accommodate the cars of one or the other, as I recently did to hold SG cars in Durango. Just too much NG stuff going on to devote one of the precious dual gauge tracks to SG storage. Back later with more...
Left, II_I
Next thing to figure out is which side you want the rail on when it goes through towns. Passengers and freight being loaded or unloaded figures into this. Consider a SG boxcar and a NG boxcar both on the same dual-gauge next to a freighthouse. If the common rail is on the side next to the warehouse, it avoids a big gap between the dock door and the boxcar. If the common rail is on the side away from the freight door, then it's a long reach to access the NG car.
Also consider passenger stations. The preference is to not have passengers stepping over the standard gauge rail when boarding or unboarding from NG cars.
Think all this through thoroughly, even a crude drawing helps if it's accurate. If you order turnouts either RTR or custom made, you don't want to guess at what you need, as they are too expensive and won't fit...aaargh! BTDT with a couple. But before you draw, more complications...
LoopsI have a return loop for turning passenger trains at Durango. It runs along the base of the hill in the left mid-ground then goes around the back of the roundhouse, etc. But it is only HOn3. Don't know why? Make a drawing of both rails, showing the 3rd rail properly oriented as it enters and circles the loop. What happens to the 3rd rail when you get almost back to the beginning? Dang! Wrong side! Draw it yourself if you don't believe. There is a solution, which is to buy or build a "draw" (there are other names for it, like "swish," etc), which uses a set of opposite facing points to move the 3rd rail side from one side to the other.
BTW, the same thing happens with a wye and it has the same solution, to install a draw on one leg of the wye.
It's your choice whether to do a dual-gauge loop or wye with the added complication of a draw. In my case, I chickened out and built the loop 3 foot only.
Turning locos does get complicated under dual-gauge by the fact that the extra couplers are offset to one side or the other, but usually not both sides. You need to have it properly oriented to run on the dual-gauge track, unless you're using a bunch of draws to go back and forth like a drunken sailor... Then there are turntables. Obviously, the could swap a 3rd rail just by turning, but the what about going into the stalls? Typically, dual-gauge turntables use 4 rails, with the NG centered between the SG rails. Same for the stall or finger tracks. The approaches to the TT can be separate by gauge (easier) or can be dual-gauge and utilize special draws to center the track just before moving onto the TT. Once again, I chickened out and have a NG-only service area served by my 3 foot gauge TT. It's these sort of design decisions that you need to fret over when designing dual gauge track. There's also the fact that while dual-gauge can handle both SG and NG, they both can't occupy the same space on that track. Be sure to leave enough room for all your SG and NG ops, or you may need to add another track or two to accommodate the cars of one or the other, as I recently did to hold SG cars in Durango. Just too much NG stuff going on to devote one of the precious dual gauge tracks to SG storage. Back later with more...
Turning locos does get complicated under dual-gauge by the fact that the extra couplers are offset to one side or the other, but usually not both sides. You need to have it properly oriented to run on the dual-gauge track, unless you're using a bunch of draws to go back and forth like a drunken sailor...
Then there are turntables. Obviously, the could swap a 3rd rail just by turning, but the what about going into the stalls? Typically, dual-gauge turntables use 4 rails, with the NG centered between the SG rails. Same for the stall or finger tracks. The approaches to the TT can be separate by gauge (easier) or can be dual-gauge and utilize special draws to center the track just before moving onto the TT.
Once again, I chickened out and have a NG-only service area served by my 3 foot gauge TT.
It's these sort of design decisions that you need to fret over when designing dual gauge track. There's also the fact that while dual-gauge can handle both SG and NG, they both can't occupy the same space on that track. Be sure to leave enough room for all your SG and NG ops, or you may need to add another track or two to accommodate the cars of one or the other, as I recently did to hold SG cars in Durango. Just too much NG stuff going on to devote one of the precious dual gauge tracks to SG storage. Back later with more...
It's these sort of design decisions that you need to fret over when designing dual gauge track. There's also the fact that while dual-gauge can handle both SG and NG, they both can't occupy the same space on that track. Be sure to leave enough room for all your SG and NG ops, or you may need to add another track or two to accommodate the cars of one or the other, as I recently did to hold SG cars in Durango. Just too much NG stuff going on to devote one of the precious dual gauge tracks to SG storage.
Back later with more...
Mike,
You have written an impressive ng/sg primer. This is the kind of dedication to detailed information that makes this forum such a great resource. Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the next installment.
Wilton.
Wonderful work, Mike!
A very useful guide.
NW
Mike, As a long time narrow-and-narrower gauge fan (To me, 4' 8.5" Shinkansen gauge is wide gauge,) WELL DONE!
A few comments:
Don't blame yourself too much if the result is an increase in narrow-gauge addiction.
As for me, I'm still looking for a working HOjN30 link and pin coupler. My prototype 762mm lines never switched to anything else...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - prototype 3' 6" and 2' 6" gauges)
Thanks to everyone for their kind comments! More is coming on this topic as I get a chance.
Chuck,
Have you looked into jewelry? Maybe some of those tiny chain links could work for the links. Not sot sure what you'll do for the pins though.
A note on the coupler install. I used a 00-80 to also mount the MT 1015 couplers, which come supplied with 00-90 screws. Use a #53 drill to open up the center mounting hole and the 00-80 screws work fine and do a bit better job keeping the draft gear straight.
OK, here are a few more tips and pics.
Crossings between HOn3 and HO come in handy, but you have to build them yourself. I used on at the south end of the Durango station tracks. It let's the NG main continue, while allowing SG access to that end of the yard. You can do three-rail crossings, but the tolerances get really tight. My point is to not be afraid of building a special piece of trackwork or two to make your dual-gauge plan work. This is the first piece of handlaid trackwork I ever did, a little ugly but works fine. You can see where I ended the NG rail just short of the crossing to work as a yard lead as far as possible.
Other pieces of special trackwork can be modified into existence. I used a dual gauge turnout to make a NG-only turnout. I removed the SG point and cleaned up some of the superfluous rail to make it. It should be noted that this is the expensive way to do this, since you have to hack a dual-gauge switch. These sort of one-gauge diversion can, in many cases, be built so there is no point required. If the guardrails are properly placed with close tolerances, that will save you the money for the switch machine, too. As a note to myself, here are some future topics I'll cover in this thread. Transfer facilities Variations on the basic idler car Dual-gauge train operations
Other pieces of special trackwork can be modified into existence. I used a dual gauge turnout to make a NG-only turnout. I removed the SG point and cleaned up some of the superfluous rail to make it.
It should be noted that this is the expensive way to do this, since you have to hack a dual-gauge switch. These sort of one-gauge diversion can, in many cases, be built so there is no point required. If the guardrails are properly placed with close tolerances, that will save you the money for the switch machine, too. As a note to myself, here are some future topics I'll cover in this thread. Transfer facilities Variations on the basic idler car Dual-gauge train operations
It should be noted that this is the expensive way to do this, since you have to hack a dual-gauge switch. These sort of one-gauge diversion can, in many cases, be built so there is no point required. If the guardrails are properly placed with close tolerances, that will save you the money for the switch machine, too.
As a note to myself, here are some future topics I'll cover in this thread.
Transfer facilities
Variations on the basic idler car
Dual-gauge train operations
I think I was less than clear. What I want with the link and pin is automatic coupling/uncoupling (Yeah, right!) A cut-off sewing pin would do for a pin, and that fine chain would keep it from wandering off. The coupling links are NOT small - more like fishing boat anchor chain.
My screen saver is a 762mm gauge Kurobe Gorge Railway Bo-Bo steeplecab - with its tongue hanging out! Link and pin, new 1970...
Chuck
You know on real dual-gauge terminals, they just lined up the 4-rail turntable with the 3-rail incoming tracks and ignored the slight kink...
There was an article a few years ago in MR that talked about a dual-gauge terminal and mentioned this fact. The article suggested doing the same thing as the prototype, and just aligning the tracks that you need, whether narrow gauge or standard.
Very nice dual gauge modeling! You've almost convinced me to give up the Pennsy, and I'm a real SPF (slobbering Pennsy fan).
Great work!
S&S
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
I think what's needed is a small robot brakeman to walk over and pull the pins, as well as set them.
S&S,
Hmmm, that could work with the TT, but I'd bet it doesn't work as well with the model as with 1:1. Anyone remember the date of that article? It would be a good addition to note it in this thread.
You don't have to give up the Pennsy to have dual gauge. There's the EBT connection, for sure, and might be others. There was a lot of NG in Penn. at one time, although I'm not certain how much dual gauge beyond the EBT.
OK, lets talk about transfer, the essential process needed to get cargo -- and sometimes people -- from one mode to the other. People, you say? Yep, they usually are able to transfer themselves from the NG to the SG train and vice versa.
Walking transfers also occur at stockyards, like the case here. It's also the case the the stockyards feed another transfer type, from break of gauge production stops. The cattle or sheep come in on the NG, but ride out as swinging sides after a stroll across the killing floor at the packing plant. Here are a couple of more examples. The refinery receives crude oil off the NG and ships refined products to both SG and NG The smelter receives ore, concentrates and inputs from both SG and NG and ships semi-refined concentrates for further processing via the SG.A coal mine is easy to serve both gauges -- just add 3rd rail! I have a branch of one customer's lumber yard located where it can receive SG loads and transload it to the narrowgauge to serve customers on the NG. This also provides a location to transfer cut lumber and timbers from the sawmill at Rockwood for shipment to customers on the SG. Icing reefers requires two different height platforms. Dropping those big blocks of ice on the NG reefer's roofs right in front of the car shop is not a good idea. The platform on the left is for SG and one the right for NG, built like the icehouse from Walthers kits. About the simplest transfer is to set both cars on adjacent tracks and have the crews move it by hand. Not much more complicated is the cross-platform transfer. The covered storage of a freighthouse helps secure valuable products and there's often a forklift around to help after about 1940. A crawler crane is handy to handle bulky loads. Mine is a Sheepscot Scale kit modified and painted to look like the Rio Grande's used at Alamosa in the late 1950s. Warehouses, grain elevators, and bulk fuel terminals also provide handy places to transfer between the gauges. Ok, that's it for now. Gotta save a few things for WPF after Bear returns to his computer.
Walking transfers also occur at stockyards, like the case here.
It's also the case the the stockyards feed another transfer type, from break of gauge production stops. The cattle or sheep come in on the NG, but ride out as swinging sides after a stroll across the killing floor at the packing plant. Here are a couple of more examples. The refinery receives crude oil off the NG and ships refined products to both SG and NG
The smelter receives ore, concentrates and inputs from both SG and NG and ships semi-refined concentrates for further processing via the SG.A coal mine is easy to serve both gauges -- just add 3rd rail! I have a branch of one customer's lumber yard located where it can receive SG loads and transload it to the narrowgauge to serve customers on the NG. This also provides a location to transfer cut lumber and timbers from the sawmill at Rockwood for shipment to customers on the SG. Icing reefers requires two different height platforms. Dropping those big blocks of ice on the NG reefer's roofs right in front of the car shop is not a good idea. The platform on the left is for SG and one the right for NG, built like the icehouse from Walthers kits. About the simplest transfer is to set both cars on adjacent tracks and have the crews move it by hand. Not much more complicated is the cross-platform transfer. The covered storage of a freighthouse helps secure valuable products and there's often a forklift around to help after about 1940. A crawler crane is handy to handle bulky loads. Mine is a Sheepscot Scale kit modified and painted to look like the Rio Grande's used at Alamosa in the late 1950s. Warehouses, grain elevators, and bulk fuel terminals also provide handy places to transfer between the gauges. Ok, that's it for now. Gotta save a few things for WPF after Bear returns to his computer.
The smelter receives ore, concentrates and inputs from both SG and NG and ships semi-refined concentrates for further processing via the SG.A coal mine is easy to serve both gauges -- just add 3rd rail!
I have a branch of one customer's lumber yard located where it can receive SG loads and transload it to the narrowgauge to serve customers on the NG. This also provides a location to transfer cut lumber and timbers from the sawmill at Rockwood for shipment to customers on the SG. Icing reefers requires two different height platforms. Dropping those big blocks of ice on the NG reefer's roofs right in front of the car shop is not a good idea. The platform on the left is for SG and one the right for NG, built like the icehouse from Walthers kits. About the simplest transfer is to set both cars on adjacent tracks and have the crews move it by hand. Not much more complicated is the cross-platform transfer. The covered storage of a freighthouse helps secure valuable products and there's often a forklift around to help after about 1940. A crawler crane is handy to handle bulky loads. Mine is a Sheepscot Scale kit modified and painted to look like the Rio Grande's used at Alamosa in the late 1950s. Warehouses, grain elevators, and bulk fuel terminals also provide handy places to transfer between the gauges. Ok, that's it for now. Gotta save a few things for WPF after Bear returns to his computer.
I have a branch of one customer's lumber yard located where it can receive SG loads and transload it to the narrowgauge to serve customers on the NG. This also provides a location to transfer cut lumber and timbers from the sawmill at Rockwood for shipment to customers on the SG.
Icing reefers requires two different height platforms. Dropping those big blocks of ice on the NG reefer's roofs right in front of the car shop is not a good idea. The platform on the left is for SG and one the right for NG, built like the icehouse from Walthers kits.
About the simplest transfer is to set both cars on adjacent tracks and have the crews move it by hand.
Not much more complicated is the cross-platform transfer. The covered storage of a freighthouse helps secure valuable products and there's often a forklift around to help after about 1940.
A crawler crane is handy to handle bulky loads. Mine is a Sheepscot Scale kit modified and painted to look like the Rio Grande's used at Alamosa in the late 1950s.
Warehouses, grain elevators, and bulk fuel terminals also provide handy places to transfer between the gauges.
Ok, that's it for now. Gotta save a few things for WPF after Bear returns to his computer.
I had the itch to do something with my last pair of 1015 couplers, so starting sizing up other diesels for possible conversion. None are as easy as the H15-44 was. There's a Walthers H10-44 and an Atlas S-2 that are doable, but both will be more work than the H15-44. Atlas Geeps, Atlas RS-3s, P2K Geeps and P2K SDs will be pretty big projects. My SD-45s and Tunnel Motors are doable, but would be a bit unbelievable.
The H15-44 is actually a nice size for this service, wasn't MU-able, and was kind of off the beaten path in Utah for the most part, so makes an ideal candidate for this imagimodification Be nice to have a backup for when it's in for service. Poor little #39 is not exactly a road engine.
There's one more type of special work I've done. It gives a narrowgauge from dual gauge divergence. It also doesn't start with an expensive dual-gauge switch, but with a NG turnout. I carefully cut out the rail and ties from a piece of dual gauge track, fitting the NG turnout into it. This came out really well when I added a NG-only siding on the backside of Durango station to handle additional trains.
Looking great!
I'd model the EBT, but the dual-gauge between EBT and the Pennsy wasn't all that extensive, and their certainly wasn't much of the really interesting (pain in the rear) trackage that was seen out west with the Rio Grande.
Mike
Late comer to this excellent thread, please keep it coming. Your conclusion about Blackstones offerings are on target as far as my future modeling ambitions are concerned. The C19 Connie has always been a favorite of mine. If you remember the late Wolfgang Dudler, he also delved into NG with the Blackstone releases.
Appreciate a modeling thread on the MR forums
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I found the article I was thinking of.
January 2010 Model Railroader - "Dual-gauge HO Track Plan"
Page 61 - "The three-rail dual-gauge track leading to the engine terminal ends at a four-rail turntable. This was done on the prototype, and the slight misalignment apparently has no ill effects and works just fine."
Yeah, that's a good one. Here's a link to it in the MR Trackplan Database, which shows 45 trackplans if you search on just the key words "dual gauge":
http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2009/11/fiddletown-and-great-divide-rr
It's actually a lot like my first concept. The SG send load in and take the NG stuff out, with some local switching at the transfer point. Then I thought that seemed too confining and decided to shoehorn in more line by double-decking things in part. That gave me some dual gauge line to work with a wayfreight.
That turntable thing is interesting. It very well could work just fine. Not sure he's actually tested it or not. I'm leery of light front trucks on steamers or a Goose being able to negotiate it. Having a NG TT with a very good drive (DS with New York Railway Supply drive), it's not always a piece of cake even when not trying to mix gauges on it. Maybe someone has given it a try and can let us know how it works? The NYRS drive would be ideal to work a TT set up like this, assuming the mechanical side of it worked fine. It can do multiple locations at very precise spots, so would the the best way to run one. You could program in a NG and a SG position for each stall.
BTW, the article has a nice diagram for a point-less divergence of HOn3 from HO SG.
Geared Steam,
I've got more, so will keep chipping away at things as I get a chance.
Those C-19s look positively puny next to a Tunnel Motor...
After looking over the track plan, I had a couple of more comments. One thing that would be great to add is a siding to hold inbound and outbound cars on the standard gauge side of things. It could go where the mainline loops around the end of the peninsula after leaving Fiddletown or as another siding where the SG tracks go between the freight house and the ore transfer tipple. As with my layout originally, there's not a lot to do on the SG except switch Fiddletown or cruise by it on the way to somewhere else. Consideration might be given to double-decking part of the SG track and incorporating more towns and industries to add to the operating fun on the SG.
The topic this time is dual gauge idler cars. Don't confuse these with the other, narrowgauge idler cars that were used in between pipe gons on the pipe trains. There's actually a short thread on the dual gauge idler cars already here, started by narrow gauge nuclear:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/204156.aspx
Chuck/tomikawaTT had a great comment there I'll quote on the reason these were usually standard gauge cars, even though they could couple to either gauge.
Chuck wrote:
A little logic shows why it makes more sense to have the transition car on standard gauge trucks:
Chuck alluded to another issue, which is the need to have coupler height at SG means that trying to tack SG draft gear onto a NG height car is mechanically problematic. Just like with building a model of one, it's easier for the prototype to shim the NG coupler down then to shim the SG coupler up.
The Rio Grande had several means of coupling equipment between the gauges. Here's another pic of one of my built-up RGM model kit's showing what's today the most familiar dual gauge idler cars.
It's built on a steel frame that's pretty short. This is a case where the frame for a SG tender could be recycled to serve, for instance, if you want to homebrew your own unique idler car. This may work even better on the model than on the prototype if you can find a cast metal or brass tender frame. The Rio Grande Models kit is relatively easy to build. The trucks on mine were a bit sketchy, probably due to my own clumsiness than anything, so I substituted some RTR trucks. It builds into a relatively light model, though, so I added more weight hidden underneath after the build. This helped some, but probably better to plan ahead and do it as you build. With the added weight, using it is better, as it was hard to uncouple anything NG without derailing the idler at first it was so light. Thus, a nice cast tender frame would have the heft to avoid this issue. The other obvious way to get heft is to use a loco with an idler car. I'd hoped to link to some other pics, but can't find them right now. The Rio Grande also used wood idlers that looked more like a conventional flatcar. These were longer than the more familiar idler cars, but likewise had the ladder arrangement at each corner to provide the required safety appliances for train crew to use. Rio Grande historian Jerry Day wrote that there were some cabooses set up with dual gauge couplers for use between Salida and Leadville when there was still a 3rd rail in use on that line. There were a few of the NG steam locos that also received dual gauge couplers. He also confirmed at least one ex-Uintah tender was converted to being an idler, although it's not clear if this one ran on SG or NG trucks. http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,56123,56150 More threads discussing dual gauge ops: http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,139071,139550 http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,27329,27368 I'll add more on these cars when I come across it.
It's built on a steel frame that's pretty short. This is a case where the frame for a SG tender could be recycled to serve, for instance, if you want to homebrew your own unique idler car.
This may work even better on the model than on the prototype if you can find a cast metal or brass tender frame. The Rio Grande Models kit is relatively easy to build. The trucks on mine were a bit sketchy, probably due to my own clumsiness than anything, so I substituted some RTR trucks. It builds into a relatively light model, though, so I added more weight hidden underneath after the build. This helped some, but probably better to plan ahead and do it as you build. With the added weight, using it is better, as it was hard to uncouple anything NG without derailing the idler at first it was so light. Thus, a nice cast tender frame would have the heft to avoid this issue.
The other obvious way to get heft is to use a loco with an idler car.
I'd hoped to link to some other pics, but can't find them right now. The Rio Grande also used wood idlers that looked more like a conventional flatcar. These were longer than the more familiar idler cars, but likewise had the ladder arrangement at each corner to provide the required safety appliances for train crew to use.
Rio Grande historian Jerry Day wrote that there were some cabooses set up with dual gauge couplers for use between Salida and Leadville when there was still a 3rd rail in use on that line. There were a few of the NG steam locos that also received dual gauge couplers. He also confirmed at least one ex-Uintah tender was converted to being an idler, although it's not clear if this one ran on SG or NG trucks.
http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,56123,56150
More threads discussing dual gauge ops:
http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,139071,139550
http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,27329,27368
I'll add more on these cars when I come across it.
mlehman S&S, Yeah, that's a good one. Here's a link to it in the MR Trackplan Database, which shows 45 trackplans if you search on just the key words "dual gauge": http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2009/11/fiddletown-and-great-divide-rr It's actually a lot like my first concept. The SG send load in and take the NG stuff out, with some local switching at the transfer point. Then I thought that seemed too confining and decided to shoehorn in more line by double-decking things in part. That gave me some dual gauge line to work with a wayfreight. That turntable thing is interesting. It very well could work just fine. Not sure he's actually tested it or not. I'm leery of light front trucks on steamers or a Goose being able to negotiate it. Having a NG TT with a very good drive (DS with New York Railway Supply drive), it's not always a piece of cake even when not trying to mix gauges on it. Maybe someone has given it a try and can let us know how it works? The NYRS drive would be ideal to work a TT set up like this, assuming the mechanical side of it worked fine. It can do multiple locations at very precise spots, so would the the best way to run one. You could program in a NG and a SG position for each stall.
As I recall from the article, the author was building the layout at the time. My quote says that it "works just fine", so I would assume that means that the engine terminal area was built and he had already tested the turntable.
The indexing for standard and narrow gauge sounds really neat! Just be sure to get an uninterruptable power supply because I heard that when power is cut to a DCC turntable, the indexing is lost. Sounds like a really dumb way to build a product to me.
Perhaps some old-style indexing would work better using contacts and relays to stop the turntable exactly where you want. (Perhaps a rod sticking out under the layout that cuts power to the TT motor when it either hits a contact or presses a SPST switch.)
Schuylkill and SusquehannaThe indexing for standard and narrow gauge sounds really neat! Just be sure to get an uninterruptable power supply because I heard that when power is cut to a DCC turntable, the indexing is lost. Sounds like a really dumb way to build a product to me.
Actually, the NYRS drive doesn't mind a power interruption at all. When powered back up, it goes through a brief status check, moving the bridge slightly either way from where it was positioned when shut down, then is ready to go.
The stepper motor drive is very precise and much easier to set up than any sensor based system.
Mike,I finally had some time to really go through this thread & follow it.I think you are doing an incredible job, & really want to thank you for sharing it with everyone!!!I would also like to make an idler car from a JV Models Flat Car, with Dual Gauge capability.I really liked what you did with the Locomotive aspect, as I was completely focused on the idler flat.Also, I was overjoyed with your solution to the NG Divergance Turnout, which is the 'missing link' in DG trackwork!!!
Again, a very BIG Thanks Mike, you really cover &, share the subject very well in an informative & helpful way.
Thank You!!!
Chad,
Glad to be of service. Seemed like a neglected area of potential growing interest and, well, I've got the examples handy in the layout room.
I'll keep trying to find that pic that's somewhere on this computer that shows a SG flat converted to a dual-gauge idler.
Inspired by the prospect of setting up a shot with it and a C-19, the old with the new motive power, I finally got around to detailing the pilot on my lead Tunnel Motor so it would be, ahem, presentable for the photo session.
Then there's NG diesel vs SG diesel:
Great thread!!
I hang with a bunch of narrow gaugers and for awhile considered building a dual gauge layout. I eventually decided against it even though I still like the idea. I do have some dual gauge track and some narrow gauge spots as well.
I built one of the dual gauge idler cars:
A dual gauge split off:
I modified this ME turnout to have a dual gauge through track by adding rails and an extra frog.
Here is a shot of the current dual/ standard gauge trackage in the yard. The Chama oil dock loads narrow gauge on one side and standard on the other
I love the rustic feel of narrow gauge and have incorporated water tanks and other NG structures on my standard gauge layout.. For now I consider my self a narrow (gauge) minded standard gauge modeler.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Guy,
That track you modified is exactly what I would like to have, I do not know if it has a formal name, but I call it a Narrow Gauge Exit track.I would employ them where the lines would interchange & become dual gauge.The neat thing about those is that they are not a mechanical turnout, which is great!
Very nice work, indeed!
Thanks for the excellent contribution!
I really like your work with...whatever it's called. Chad, I call it a divergence, but I'm almost certain that's not correct. And it's not a draw, which takes you from side to side but WITHIN the SG rails. Anyone know? I can ask my NG buddies, but why not find out if there are more here who can contribute?
Guy's trackwork is a very handy thing to have. I designed mine so that I when I needed something like that, I'd hack a dual gauge Shinohara...but that ain't cheap any more -- and wasn't particularly cheap then, either. Guy's solution is far more elegant. In fact, I may get all inspired and do something like the one with the points.
Now, the one Chad is asking about is no moving parts and always a thing of beauty.
But they work great. Guy, was it very touchy to set up or pretty much watch your Ps and Qs and it works?
BTW, you are very much a narrowgauger in my book with work like that. I can't say I fault your approach of doing a very NGish approach, but in SG. I just decided to bite the bullet back in the mid-80s, although I'll admit I have my share of SG
Mike,My Apologies, I was so excited about seeing that track.....
I also wanted to comment on your awesome photo's, they are excellent & I really enjoy the perspective on the difference sizes of the motive power.Nicely doe!!Thanks again for sharing your excellent modelling efforts & knowledge!It's great to se positive contibutions & sharing like this!
I gotta agree with Chad about the cool track work and the effort that you put in on this thread.
I wanted to mention a couple of things:
Over the past ten years, I have spent many hours bottom feeding on Ebay for switches. I especially like BK enterprises and Railway Engineering which are essentially Fastracks without the ties. I have bought lots of these. BK made/make?? Switch points with frogs. I used one of these on the modified ME turnout. I still have a bunch of these. Saves having to cut up stuff (Mike you really cut up Shinohara dual gauge turnouts??? That’s either dedication or crazy)
Here is a shot of a BK turnout and the BK points/frogs.
Here is a shot of my turnout box. There used to be a lot more stuff in it but there is still a lot left over………you never know.
Here is a close up of the double frog on the ME turnout.
Believe it or not I once thought about doing a thread on building the diverging track or whatever we are calling it (I’ll ask my NG buddies tomorrow). I started to shoot pics but the process of documenting things ground the whole procedure to a halt. I went ahead and built it without any more photos. Documenting and posting takes so much time…Life is too short to do it all.
Here are a couple of pics:
Here is a shot of the layout of the track. I used PC ties and soldered the ends of my frog point together.
Here is a shot down the track. I wasn’t too crazy about how sharp the diverging angle ended up but it worked perfectly from the get go. The layout of the track work was careful but not too fussy.
Mike, Glad to be able to contribute to the discussion. Thanks for making it happen.
Chad, I encourage you to just go build it and see what you come up with. Order some rail and some PC ties . Break out the dremel and the soldering Iron and you are good to go… If we can do it, I’m sure you can.
That is AWESOME!!!I do have one or two BK parts, but not enought to do that, Yes, I gotta get off the the porcelian -to speak!!!!Those are excellent!!!Thanks again for sharing & contributing!You have revitalized my interest where I was stuck..One Question, how did you determine & build the best ½Frog for the edge rail that takes the initial divergence?That was my hangup, I can guage it out, but could not get the design down just right.Thanks agian!
Brilliant! I never even thought of using BK parts. It's not quite RTR but makes more involved dual gauge trackwork arrangements more of a "kit" type project. That's close enough for me
This thread is gonna be a classic before it's all over. I'm sure we've just scratched the surface of interesting hacks.
Yeah, it is kinda crazy to hack Shinoharas, but consider the price of custom work. I was barely aware of it when I started the current layout in the early 90s and bought most of the track then. My first NNGC wasn't until 96 in Durango. I'm actually acquainted with Cliff Mestel, who runs BK from, meeting him there, although we've been on email lists together since. Good guy and his products are affordable and could definitely make neat little hacks like Guy has done a breeze. Here's a link, with some further info useful for this thread.
http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bkho.html
There are a couple of different ways I use to build frogs. For me the most important thing is to draw out the angles first to get the diverging angle correct. If you get stuck here, simply lay a turnout with the proper frog number over the area and trace it. You can also print out templates from the Fast tracks website and use those to get angles and general turnout geometry.
Making the frog:
Method one is to essentially bend the rail in half to make the point. Material must be removed from the rail on the inside of the bent area to make this possible. Mark the rail in the middle. That will be the frog point. Then grind down the other side of the rail web and rail until it is thin. Bend the rail so that the thin area is on the inside of the point. You can adjust the angle pretty easily that way.
Method two is to make each rail that makes the frog point separately. I figure the length of each of the rails and then grind off the inside of the rails until they fit together at the angle I want, I then solder then together to form the point.
You may have a couple of do-overs while you get used to the process, but in general it is easier than it sounds. I am by no means an expert at hand-laying. Most of my handbuilt stuff works better than it should, given my skill level. Most of my turnouts are commercial products…If I can do it, anyone can.
Here you can see the flex track mockup of the area.
This shot you can see the lines drawn in for the rails and ties.
Here is the cream city turnout that inspired the whole thing.
Here is a BK turnout installed on the layout. Hand laid quality without as much work.
I do agree about the semi-kit idea being much less intimidating when doing this sort of thing. I have only built a few turnouts from scratch where I couldn’t find a commercial product that would work. Mostly curved turnouts, a couple of crossings and a wye.
I started out spiking everything but went to soldering and PC ties. I found it much easier to make adjustments with the soldering approach. Ironically I used homasote as a roadbed so I would have the option of spiking things down. I ended using mostly flex track and commercial turnouts (which I did spike down). In retrospect the homasote was a bit of overkill.
One the name: I stumped the narrow gauge brain trust yesterday with the question of what to call the diverging track work. The best they could come up with was the term “swoose”. I am not sure if the old guys were pulling the wool over the standard gauge newbie’s eyes with this one. The guys promised to do more research and get back to me.
I have only been to one NG convention in 2004 when it was in my backyard. I do attend O scale west and other train events in the area that have a heavy dose of NG .
Still trying to figure out how to work this turn out into the layout:
Just for fun. Here is a turnout that I built at the bench. When I tested it I hadn’t cut through all the way through the copper on some of the ties. I applied power and the turnout caught fire for just an instant. Little copper flares as the thin traces burned through. It was over in a few seconds. Now I can advertise flame broiled turnouts for the layout
Well, that’s more than enough from me for now,
trainnut1250in general it is easier than it sounds. I am by no means an expert at hand-laying. Most of my handbuilt stuff works better than it should, given my skill level. Most of my turnouts are commercial products…If I can do it, anyone can.
Absolutely right and one of the big reasons I started this thread. If people are thinking about doing some dual gauge track or just work the narrowgauge in around the standard gauge, there are ways to do it within the skill set of most of us.
Re: "swoose" -- I've heard of swoosh or swish being used to refer to a draw, but this sort of thing is peculiar and localized enough that it could refer to different arrangements in different places. I'll ping my people and see what they say.
Guy,Thanks for the excellent tips & recommendations..I am definately leaning towards trying some sometime.Thank you!