Coming in late, so here is my two cents, minus taxes and inflation which means you can take this for whatever it's worth.
Anyhows, I started in HO. But when I joined the Air Force, moves and apartment living didn't mix with HO very well. So I switched to N and built modular bookcase (or bookcase modules) using the techniques shown in MR in the Jan/Feb 77 issues. I found them to be very useful in the apartment since they were sturdy and portable (survived several military moves) and allowed me to reconfigure to match new apartments with just some connecting track.
Now for me personally, I found N scale very good at modeling long trains and train movement. However it did not work as well for switching. Yes, I know there are many who switch in N, but at slow speeds it got a bit herky jerky for me. So when I settled down in a permanent house, I went back to HO (if I had room I'd even go to O because I prefer the feeling of massive equipment doing it's workday job). But that's because the larger scale better suits my desires of simulating the railroader on the ground. YMMV.
jim
Since you already have an HO layout, why not do something different but still be in your comfort zone by building an HO narrow gauge layout? Any structures, vehicles, figures, or scenery items you've stockpiled but never built will fit right in, and you'll have a second layout that is truly different than the first.
I would do N scale but my limitations is my bad eyesight and nerve damage
My biggest reason for going with a second HO layout is because I already have the money invested into HO trains and equipment and that is a huge factor since I live by my self and have no one to share the living expenses with. Investment in a second layout in HO for me would be less costly.
There are 2 main things to consider when deciding to go N or HO scale. First of course is what equipment you already have and weather you want to use it and expand on it or move to a different scale and buy new equipment. Second would be design. I would first design the layout I would like to build and then decide if it would fit in the room I have. If it fits ok then go with HO. If you want more then you would have to go with N. That is what I did when I built my N scale layout. I didn't have enough room for the HO version. What ever you chose have fun building and running it.
csxns SOO_N Scaler am tired of people bad mouthing N scale for what ever reason that is the flavor of the month. You model yours and I will model mine. EverYou got the problem so what is bad about Z when it is smaller than N.
SOO_N Scaler am tired of people bad mouthing N scale for what ever reason that is the flavor of the month. You model yours and I will model mine. Ever
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Russell
Seems to me that I touched a nerve,, oh well.
I am tired of people bad mouthing N scale for what ever reason that is the flavor of the month. You model yours and I will model mine. Everyone is free to have their own opinion, I choose to model in N scale and I also choose to dislike self righteous modelers who think N scale is bad for what ever reason.
Po'd in Texas
SOO_N Scaler The scale choice is a personal preferance. Myself I like N,, the heck with the horribly oversized garbage. But to each their own. Wyatt
The scale choice is a personal preferance. Myself I like N,, the heck with the horribly oversized garbage. But to each their own.
Wyatt
To drag this even further into the mud, let me just add those words from the old beer commercials:
Less Filling!
or is it Great Taste?
- Mark
Schuylkill and Susquehanna You should also remember that even though N scale allows you to get four times the trains in the same square feet as HO, each N scale locomotive and car costs as much as an HO scale car of similar quality. In effect, you will end up paying four times as much in terms of rolling stock and buildings for an N scale layout that is the same size as an HO layout. I considered N scale for a while since I only have a roughly 5x8 plus a shelf area to work with, but I decided to stick with HO because I have so much HO stuff. Also, N scale can be a real eye strain, while HO is much easier to see and detail - without requiring the use of a magnification device. A good track plan will allow for great operations in even the smallest space. My plan has one staging and two layout levels, and models the PRR's New Castle branch and the Wolf Creek branch. Even in my very limited space, I was able to fit in almost all of the two branch lines. I managed to fit: 7 staging tracks, a staging level wye for turning trains, a 3 track yard, 3 railroad interchanges, 5 towns, 2 coal mines, a power plant, 3 freight houses, 2 passenger stations, 3 grade crossings, and 3 large mountains on the upper level. In addition, all the planned scenes have realistic lines of sight. The layout is planned for 5 foot / 8 car trains and 22" radius curves. Although a 3 deck layout with a train elevator may not be anything close to what you want, it does prove that HO scale can be fit even in small spaces. If I were you, I'd use the 8' side for staging, and use the 18' side for the actual layout. Several years back, there was a track plan in Model Railroader that was an L shaped shelf layout about the size that you are talking about, but MR's track plan database isn't working right now, so I can't give you a link. That plan had several industrial areas, a passenger station, and several other features that I can't recall right now. S&S
You should also remember that even though N scale allows you to get four times the trains in the same square feet as HO, each N scale locomotive and car costs as much as an HO scale car of similar quality. In effect, you will end up paying four times as much in terms of rolling stock and buildings for an N scale layout that is the same size as an HO layout.
I considered N scale for a while since I only have a roughly 5x8 plus a shelf area to work with, but I decided to stick with HO because I have so much HO stuff. Also, N scale can be a real eye strain, while HO is much easier to see and detail - without requiring the use of a magnification device.
A good track plan will allow for great operations in even the smallest space. My plan has one staging and two layout levels, and models the PRR's New Castle branch and the Wolf Creek branch. Even in my very limited space, I was able to fit in almost all of the two branch lines. I managed to fit: 7 staging tracks, a staging level wye for turning trains, a 3 track yard, 3 railroad interchanges, 5 towns, 2 coal mines, a power plant, 3 freight houses, 2 passenger stations, 3 grade crossings, and 3 large mountains on the upper level. In addition, all the planned scenes have realistic lines of sight. The layout is planned for 5 foot / 8 car trains and 22" radius curves.
Although a 3 deck layout with a train elevator may not be anything close to what you want, it does prove that HO scale can be fit even in small spaces. If I were you, I'd use the 8' side for staging, and use the 18' side for the actual layout. Several years back, there was a track plan in Model Railroader that was an L shaped shelf layout about the size that you are talking about, but MR's track plan database isn't working right now, so I can't give you a link. That plan had several industrial areas, a passenger station, and several other features that I can't recall right now.
S&S
edited because of my timing in scale recc. whoopsies.
Don't know what your current layout base is, but for a shelf, 2" foam is light and quite strong. Good shelf brackets can hold it in place. Some folks choose to run a 1"x3" stringer or two the length of the layout, others only run a strip on top of the bracket. With the strip glued to the foam, it gives you something to drive some screws into to hold the foam in place on the brackets. You may need a shim or two to make it level.
Have fun,
Richard
Soilwork,
I believe that is a wise decision,,with that space,you can make a pretty fair size,Intermodal yard..
Cheers,
Frank
I have layouts in both N and HO . My HO scale traction layout is 4x11 and my N scale layout is 3x23 and "L" shaped. I can run long Milwaukee road passenger trains on the N scale layout and have nice detailed trolleys and overhead wire on the HO scale layout.
Randy
With Z Scale you can have longer trains than N Scale.
Can we reign this in and get back to the OP please? Sorry for my part in making this mess. My point was that N scale costs as much as HO, while it is half the size, although I obviously didn't say that well.
Both scales have their advantages and disadvantages.
N scale allows for larger industries., more space between scenes, and a higher scenery to track ratio. Smaller curve radii can allow for more track arrangements and larger trains.
HO is larger and so it is easier to add brass stirrup steps, wire grab irons, marker lights, and other fine details. You also get a larger model for your buck.
In N scale you pay for fine details on the small cars. In HO you pay mostly for materials, and the for detail. Basic HO details are clunky in N (regarding thickness), and basic N details are the thickness equivalent of HO fine scale.
N scale is smaller and it is harder to see the small(er) details.
HO is larger and you can't fit as much in the same space (were you so inclined.)
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
cuyama Affectations of grammar aside, this is a pretty tired stereotype that is false. Many older modelers enjoy N scale. I've had cataract surgery and I can see N scale just fine on the layout without reading glasses and slip them on for fine work -- pretty much the same as I need on friends' HO scale layouts.
Affectations of grammar aside, this is a pretty tired stereotype that is false. Many older modelers enjoy N scale.
I've had cataract surgery and I can see N scale just fine on the layout without reading glasses and slip them on for fine work -- pretty much the same as I need on friends' HO scale layouts.
LION not have cataract surgery, vet says not worth it yet. HUMPH... vet not have to mode trains or wire computers. LION got one of those Opti-visor things. Likes it a lot, he does. But him cannot still see everything as he wants. Big furry paws too, do not forget the paws... Him has neuropathy too so him has not the dexterity to deal even with HO the way he likes.
Oh well, LION does with what him has, and anyway, grammar is more fun this way.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLionhim has not a microscope with which to see N scale.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Schuylkill and SusquehannaIn effect, you will end up paying four times as much in terms of rolling stock and buildings for an N scale layout that is the same size as an HO layout.
Not usually. Many of us modeling in N scale have some restraint and avoid cramming our N scale layouts with too much track and equipment. The roominess is a nice change from some "shoe-horned" and cramped HO scale layouts.
The Original Poster might note that since most active participants on this forum model in HO scale, their responses reflect that inherent bias. A similar posting on a forum with a larger number of active N scalers, such as The Railwire or Trainboard, would bring a very different set of replies.
Schuylkill and SusquehannaIf I were you, I'd use the 8' side for staging, and use the 18' side for the actual layout.
In many cases, it is possible to place staging behind a low backdrop with active scenes in front. This is especially effective in N scale on shelves, since the track-to-track spacing is much less. No need to dedicate an arm of the layout solely to staging.
Best of luck.
How many locomotives does BNSF have?
Don't know, do you!
How many locomotives does the LION have?
I Don't know either. How do you count the things?
I have A-A sets of PA2s, is that one or two locomotives? They are both powered, but are linked with drawbars.
What about my A-B-A F7s I have three sets of those the "A" units are powered, the "B" units are not, but again they are all linked with drawbars.
I have dozens of other locomotives some working others not. Do I count them if they are not working. Even if they are in back of the back shop with a tree growing through the frame?
And what about my subway cars. I have 52 of those things, some are powered others are not. (12 Powered units--eight train sets running.)
LION has simply stopped counting them.
At the moment only the subway cars, and a few locomotives that I will build into MOW trains will run on the layout, but the others will find a home in a static display. Are they still locomotives if they are just on display. They will work, but I go enought to do without them at the moment.
Well, you don't have to buy 4 N scale locomotives instead of 1 HO. You can have the same number of engines and rolling stock if you so desire. Also the same track plan with the same number of turnouts. You'll have a much less crowded layout that way.
Of course it you're like most of us, you'll have 4 locomotives (or more) no matter what scale you're in. Just with N scale they can all be on the layout together instead of most of them on the shelf.
The key with N scale is build the layout high. Depending on your height I would recommend between 54" and 60". Do a mock up at different heights. With a high layout, you can see the trains, structures, etc. much better.
OTOH with an L shape 18'x8' you can have a switching layout in any scale. Since you already have an HO layout that you're keeping, I would suggest a different scale. In addition to N, consider S, O, or G.
You could also do a Z scale mainline.
Good luck
Paul
Since this is a second layout, not a replacement, it may make things easier.
First, you will not be selling off your present equipment if you do a different scale, but you won't be able to exchange equipment between them.
HO does have more detail and is easier to handle, but if you are not worried about the details and have good motor controls (hands don't knock things over often) and expect to for some time, then N does offer you more operational possibilities in the same space.
You seem to have the space and a foundation plan. The choice is really yours and only you can answer just which elements of the hobby you are most interested in.
HO or N, a perennial question. The answer is subjective, you will be happiest doing the scale you like best. The tradeoffs are obvious. N allows more railroad in the same space, HO allows more detailing on structures and rolling stock, and the locomotives are large enough to accept DCC decoders with greater ease than the smaller N locomotives.
If you have 18 foot by 8 foot that is enough space for a good big HO layout. And an even bigger N layout. If you like HO, you have enough space for it. You don't have to go with N to make it fit. Be aware that you can only reach into the layout for putting trains on the track, or working on the layout, some two feet. A pure table layout 8 foot wide means the center four feet are out of reach.
With 8 feet to play with, you can have 48 inch (really really broad) radius curves and have a mainline that loops around the layout. Although I have lots of switching opportunities, very often after getting a train put together I want to watch it run for a while, say a couple of loops around the layout, or even more. With a pure switching layout, you can only run from one end to the other, then you have to turn the train around, or back it up to the other end. Think about a continuous running main line, I get a lot of pleasure out of mine, and you have the space for it.
Read the bible, "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" by John Armstrong.
Think about how you will take the layout apart when moving day comes. If you decide to go modular, it's worth your time to find the various standards for modules. You don't have to follow them, but your layout will come out better if you know what they are.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Apartments and model trains are not a real good mix, but of course you do what you have to do. How long do you plan to stay in this apartment. Is it a rental, or do you own it.
My father always said to build modular. This I have never done, but then I did not build train in an apartment.
Next question, Where are your tools, your table saw and your drill press? Where will the saw dust go? Will you neighbors appreciate the construction noise.
N scale does let you do more, but it does not have the equipment I require, so end of story. LION has enough trouble seeing HO, and him has not a microscope with which to see N scale. LION's Big furry paws also mitigate against N scale. Of course they do no better with HO, I can see why a lot of transit buffs stick with O scale, and never mind that cars cost $400.00 each. Apparently they are made of money. LION is not.