AVRNUTThe Bangor & Aroostook
Texas Zepher AVRNUTThe Bangor & Aroostook That freight E7 is a glorious looking locomotive. I do find it interesting that the track rail that it is sitting on looks too small to support it though. What would that be in HO? Code 35?
LOL! I never noticed it before, but now that you mention it that rail does look awfully small. One thing I did notice in that photo is that the ground all around it looks wet. I think she had just gotten a bath.
Carl
"I could never belong to any club that would have me as a member."
On the flip side, the practice was uncommon on the Espee, PA's remained in passenger service until retired in 1967, the modest E unit fleet went directly to scrap or tradein, to be followed by the F unit fleet by 1973 with the exception of the FP7 model many of which had a second career upon their sale to Amtrak. SDP45's were employed in a duel service capacity from day one and until the mid sixties so were the trainmasters. Exit from commute operations led to dispersal of former commute motive power to freight service were despite being the best maintained power on the system all examples were off the roster by the time of merger.
Lehigh Valley also used PA's in freight service after they exited the passenger business. And it wasn;t just diesels - one of the last holdouts for Reading and PRR steam was the joint operation on the PRSL. Just saw a photo the other day of a Reading G3 Pacific pulling a work train on the line.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The Chicago & North Western used its Chicago commuter F units on freights over the weekends when they were not needed in such quantities for commuter trains. The only thing is they had to be assigned to service that would see them back in Chicago by Monday mornings. Runs up to Milwaukee's Butler Yard and back were common.
I have also seen photos of C&NW commuter 4-6-2 in work train service, and have read that even their huge drivered (84"?) 4-4-2 were used on work trains.
The PRR's M class 4-8-2s were built as dual service engines but I think they were fairly quickly primarily freight engines.
Dave Nelson
CN's fast freights between Toronto and Montreal frequently used passenger power in the 1970s. This wasn't a downgrade but rather an upgrade.
As freight speed limits would have still applied, I imagine CN was taking advantage of the quicker acceleration on the FP9A and FPA-4 units.
I once performed the yard switching in Vancouver on John Chipperfield's layout using a VIA P42DC... until the front coupler broke! I should have stuck with my SW1200RS...
-Jason
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
PRR E8's were used hauling Truc-Trains in their later years.
NKP PA's before being traded in on RS-36's were used as the lead unit (no nose MU capability) on freight trains. Also, some of the Berkshires had Passenger steam and signal lines for use in Passenger Service.
The N&W built the J-1's because they motive power department wanted the Class A's 2-6-6-4 in freight service instead of passenger service where they were often used.
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
On the PRR, many steam locomotives were given freight duties as the steam era came to an end. In the late 40s and early 50s it wasn't uncommon to see K4 pacifics and other "passenger" locomotives pulling freight trains.
Passenger locomotives pulled freight trains even while they were still being used for passenger service. Between passenger runs, they would be assigned to pull local freights or any other short-term job that would get them back before they were scheduled to pull a passenger train again.
S&S
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
D&RGW actually did the opposite. They bought F3's as passenger power but used them in freight service for the first few years, then promoted them to passenger power.
When passenger service was being eliminated in the 1060's, D&RGW's dedicated passenger diesels units were being retired also. Having been bought in 1946, the PA's and F3's were D&RGW primary passenger power and were 20 years old in 1966. Twenty years was the average lifespan of most of D&RGW diesel power at that time. D&RGW retired it's F3's at the end of 1965, and used their dual purpose F's during the waning years of the CZ, F7's and F9's. No dedicated passenger power was demoted to freight on the D&RGW. All the remainder power used in passenger service was also used in freight service - standard F units.
D&RGW Power used in passenger service:
Alco PA
Alco PB
Rebuilt to steam generator car 252 in July 1965.
F units used in passenger service:
FT 5481, 5482, 5483, 5484
The below F sets were used in freight and passenger service (B units had steam generators)
F7's 5551-5554F7's 5561-5564F7's 5571-5574F7's 5581-5584F7's 5761, 5764F9's 5771-5774F9's 5762, 5753
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Excellent information Rio Grande. Were 252 and 253 the units that served on the Ski Train?
Here's an extra tidbit to Rio Grande's post.........
Don't forget the F-units that went to Penn Central and stayed in their RG schemes for a while. Imho..........cool units to model
http://www.hebners.net/pc/pcF7/pc754b.jpg
http://www.hebners.net/pc/pcF7/pc721ABBA.jpg
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
NJ Dept. of Transportation provided Erie-Lackawanna with 32 GE U34CH's for push-pull commuter service out of Hoboken. They could be seen hauling freight on weekends.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
The New Haven used their PA1s and CPA 24-5s in freight service as the cutbacks in passenger service took place. Their fleet of 60 DL109s were right from the beginning considered a dual service unit. Even the FL9s did some service on their trailer service Boston to New York.
Ron High
Thanks, everybody, for the interesting posts. .
riogrande5761: ... I was in Colorado in the mid-60’s and observed the Rio Grande and other CO railroads of that era. I saw the DRGW PA’s and F’s hauling passenger trains.
Also the Santa Fe was mentioned earlier in this thread. One of the most interesting conversions from passenger to freight was the Santa Fe’s acquisition of 18 Amtrak SDP40F’s. Santa Fe traded 25 CF7’s and 18 SSB-1200’s for them. (SSB-1200’s were yard switchers made by Santa Fe shops from rebuilt NW2’s.)
Santa Fe modified the SDP40F’s so they functioned like SD40’s, and the units hauled freight for about 15 years. The 18 Santa Fe units would be an interesting prototype to model especially after the 1988 front step modifications.
Here is a link with a lot of interesting photos and history.
http://atsf.railfan.net/cowls/sdp40f.html
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
The U28CG's and U30CG's were inappropriately blamed for the one high speed derailment. Santa Fe completed a study on that and found there was no issue with high speed derailments versus the design of the engines.
Why else would they have assigned them, also, to the Super C--a 90-mph freight train? IF they had a problem with high speed running, they would not have used them there.
The relatively brief life of the U28CG's and U30CG's in high speed service had more to do with their durability versus EMD motive power.
John
The Erie-Lackawanna also used their E8's on fast freights after they dropped through passenger service in January 1970. Here are 822 and a sister at the Salamanca shops in the winter of 1973.
-Stan
Here are pictures of the CB&Q California F3's. There were three sets of three units each in ABA formation. Numbers were 9960 A, B, and C; 9961 A, B, and C; and 9962 A, B, and C.
Here is a 1949 publicity picture that was touched up with an artist. This was the first year of operation for the C Z.
Next photo shows a set of 3 units hauling freight before being modified for freight service . Here is a set of 3 units after being modified in 1955 for freight service. Units were repainted and the steam generators were removed. Also, they were re-geared.
Next photo shows a set of 3 units hauling freight before being modified for freight service .
Here is a set of 3 units after being modified in 1955 for freight service. Units were repainted and the steam generators were removed. Also, they were re-geared.
Garry;
Thanks so much for posting that first photo. Brings back a lot of memories. Back in the mid to late 50's, when I was a kid, my dad's job took us to Galesburg, IL. for a few years. One Saturday morning dad said to me, "Wanna take a ride?' So, off we went, heading for downtown & I figured we were going to some store. But we passed through downtown & next thing I knew we were at the railroad station.
The newly renovated "Denver Zephyr" was in town as part of her maiden publicity tour of the area. Unbeknowngst to me, my dad had gotten us tickets for the one hour excursion rides they were offering. It was my very first train ride & what a ball I had! Everyone even got a few minutes, in groups, riding up in the observation car dome. Great memory that I will always have.
Carl ..... Thanks for commenting and sharing your childhood experiences in Galesburg. I grew up west of Chicago and watched the CB&Q mainline from my bedroom window when I was a kid. I rode the Twin CIties Zephyr several times, and I wish I road the DZ, CZ, and other CB&Q trains back then. Our family did ride on several other railroads at the time, and I really have no complaints about doing that.
The N&W J's as well as the K1 and K2 class 4-8-2's were used in freight service after being demoted from passenger service. The K1 and K2's were considered good dual purpose locomotives, though the J's showed they could do as well in freight as well in passenger service, one J being able to pull an 100-car coal train. In excursion service, 611 on a few occasions ran freight when she didn't have the excursion train for one reason or another. Even in these runs, she was required to have her tool car with her.
As for the J1's, they had to be classed as freight locomotives as the War Department (who then controlled the railroads) did not allow the N&W to build more passenger locomotives. Close to the end of the war, the N&W was able to gather the needed materials and streamline the J1's, reclassifying them into J's.
lois
DSO17 Can electrics be included? Like PRR P5a and GG1?
Can electrics be included? Like PRR P5a and GG1?
GG1s were dual srvice locos from the beginning, but some spent more time on freight and were so geared. Toward the end, these locos had their steam boilers remove and replaced with blocks of cement.
P5As were meant to serve as passenger units but couldn't pull heavyweiht trains at the speeds required, so Pennsy developed the GG1s - based on New Haven locos - as a solution.
When the G's came, the P5s essentially lost their passenger duties.
I wish I was a headlight
On a northbound train
AntonioFP45Excellent information Rio Grande. Were 252 and 253 the units that served on the Ski Train? Here's an extra tidbit to Rio Grande's post......... Don't forget the F-units that went to Penn Central and stayed in their RG schemes for a while. Imho..........cool units to model http://www.hebners.net/pc/pcF7/pc754b.jpg http://www.hebners.net/pc/pcF7/pc721ABBA.jpg
I believe both of the PB steam generators service on the ski train but the ski train has been a feature on the D&RGW since even the 1940's I believe. There were also 2 steam engine tenders turned to steam generators also used on the ski train. At least one of them was converted to head end power and used on the ex Canadan Tempo equipped ski train.
Not forgotten. Joseph Strapac's Rio Grande Diesels Volume 1 includes a few obligatory "graduate" photo's of F units on PC. There were other graduates too because D&RGW took good care diesels, including GP7's going to Rock Island and F to Alaska RR.
One of my favorite bits of modern railroad trivia is that there is currently (or at least within the past year) an FP9A working a local freight in the Eastern Washington/Western Montana region
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2049253
Actually, probably the most dramatic electric example is New Haven's EP5 "jets". These started out as mainline passenger electrics, equipped with pantographs for AC overhead, and DC pick-up shoes for New York Central territory (including Grand Central Terminal).
However, they were notorious for overheating. Many burned repeatedly. The PRR tried them out in long distance passenger service, but found that the engine could not handle such distances without becoming dangerously hot (a problem not noticed in the relatively short distance between New Haven and New York, where the engines did not run long enough to generate such heat).
A close call involving a fire in a New York City tunnel (that went unreported for hours), lead to these units eventually being dropped from passenger service. Penn Central eventually assigned them to Harrisburg, removed their third rail shoes and one of the pantographs, and pressed them into Freight service. Most burned during this time and sat dead.
The last two, 4973 and 4977 ran their last miles making runs between Morrisville, PA, and northern New Jersey. They were retired by February, 1977, and were never repainted or patched for Conrail.
Texas Zepher DSO17 Can electrics be included? Like PRR P5a and GG1? I would think so. Was the GG1 really considered a "passenger" locomotive. I thought it was dual purpose from the beginning.
The GG1s were definitely intended to be dual purpose, but the P5a was supposed to be electric. The L6 2-D-2 electrics were supposed to be the freighters, but that never happened.
Modeling Conrail, Amtrak and NJ DOT under the wires in New Jersey, July 1979.
[.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCXx_c7qq04
#252-253 were also used on the Rio Grande Zephyr. You could say one remained in passenger service until their 83 A day.
CP5415 The D&H threw their PA's into freight service for a while as well
The D&H threw their PA's into freight service for a while as well
And so too did the Erie Lackawanna. However, management received many complaints about the poor view during switching moves, so that was a short-lived venture on locals and turns that had to do a lot of switching, so they went back to hood units for that service. The PA's, as well as E8's and E9's were used quite a bit on through trains until Conrail took over; they either scrapped them or sold the units at that time.
Though I don't think any of the PAs lasted near Conrail, A few of the ex EL E8s did run in freight service in the early years (months) of Conrail (I have a photo of three of them on a freight somewhere). I think many of the E8s that did survive into Conrail were all PRR or New York Central veterans, Particularly those in service on the New York & Long Branch, or the limited Chicago area commuter runs.
Ironically though, the only Conrail E8 survivor was an Ex- Erie unit, which became Conrail 4022, the only one painted full blue (and later one of the OCS E8s). The other two OCS E8s were ex PRR units bought from Amtrak years after all the other E8s went to the torch.
My guess is that most of the EL and PC E-units ended up on NJ DOT.
green_elite_cab Though I don't think any of the PAs lasted near Conrail, A few of the ex EL E8s did run in freight service in the early years (months) of Conrail (I have a photo of three of them on a freight somewhere). I think many of the E8s that did survive into Conrail were all PRR or New York Central veterans, Particularly those in service on the New York & Long Branch, or the limited Chicago area commuter runs. Ironically though, the only Conrail E8 survivor was an Ex- Erie unit, which became Conrail 4022, the only one painted full blue (and later one of the OCS E8s). The other two OCS E8s were ex PRR units bought from Amtrak years after all the other E8s went to the torch. My guess is that most of the EL and PC E-units ended up on NJ DOT.
You are correct about the ex EL E8/9s. They did, as I also recall, make it to Conrail.
Conrail seemingly wanted no part of the PA's and for good reason. They were high maintenance and for that reason, not reliable, especially coming from the "cut corners" maintenance schedules that they likely went through on the cash-strapped EL. I also understand that they were not very fuel-thrifty in an era when fuel prices started skyrocketing.
Conrail was formed in April of 1976.
The E-L PA's were long gone before Conrail came upon the scene. According to rrpicturearchives.net, all the E-L PA-1's, as a minimum, were traded-in to EMD for new locomotives during 1969.
PA's from all American railroads were long gone by Conrail--the 4 D&H (ex-Santa Fe) PA's were basically out of service and in the process of being rebuilt to "PA-4" locomotives by 1975-1976, and they were the last operating Alco PA's in the U.S. prior to that time.
Diesel Era had a feature issue several years back on the Erie/E-L Alco PA's. It's the same issue as the Alco C-430 feature article, and is still available for purchase from them.
The E units existed in far greater numbers, and given that E-8's and E-9's were constructed at much later dates than most Alco PA's, it is not at all surprising that a few tired E units remained during the early 1970's.