Gary,
I have some of the ME turnouts also. When you supply feeder wires to your stub track spur, the diverging route of the turnout beyond the frog will work. Your loco will move normally.
It is recommended that you place feeders on all stubs or double ended sidings anyway, so the way the ME turnout functions now is not really an issue. I usually do this by wiring the diverging route of the turnout. Basically, I put three pairs of feeder wires on each turnout.
- Douglas
Burlington Northern #24 The points are flush to the stock track. the frogs are insulated because it's DCC friendly, if atlas' track ever reaches the US I'll buy that instead. Nothing personal against ME but there's a reason why I stick to products I know. I'll work on it some more tomorrow. the insulated frog is probably the problem.
The points are flush to the stock track. the frogs are insulated because it's DCC friendly, if atlas' track ever reaches the US I'll buy that instead. Nothing personal against ME but there's a reason why I stick to products I know. I'll work on it some more tomorrow.
the insulated frog is probably the problem.
See this page on Alan Gartener''s site for a description of the new DCC friendly ME turnouts. These turnouts are not power routing.
Enjoy
Paul
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
If in fact,,that the turnout,is power routing,,,you have just found out,why everyone,has been saying,that point pick-up for power is unreliable.. Try it again,,if it does it again,,take a small screw driver and hold the points against the rail,if that does not work,,you have a different problem..
Good Luck,,
Frank
Ok, so I have an ME #5 RH turnout. I found out that it's power routing, but(there's always a but) My locomotives die once they reach the other side of the frog. even with the track terminals literally joining the turnout to another piece of track.
Paul,
As usual, your illustrations are excellent and are worth thousands of words.
And in your example, the switching district is large enough to warrant its own separate switcher.
Paul, that was an Idea I was originally going to have for the layout, when the layout would've been BN. Looking over it now with the example, I'll follow through on it because it'll make operating easier. Thanks Paul!
DoughlessPaul, can you give Gary, and all readers, examples of operating scenarios whereby one locomotive is picking up a few cars from the back of a train? (I assume the lead locos are still coupled to the head)
here we go:
In reality the road engine and the local switcher can divide the work. After uncoupling the remainder of the train BEHIND the blue cars the road engine can spot these on track 4. In the mean time, after picking up the caboose the switcher can spot the pink cars behind the last 3 yellow cars. The road engine returns to track 3 and couples all cars together. After testing the brakes it's ready to leave, while the local switcher takes the blue cars from track 4 and spots them before their allocated industies. Important however is the use of track 3. The left half is used by the road engine, the right half at the very same time by the local switcher. Hence track 3 should be divided into 2 separate blocks, just like track 4! At your service Paul
In reality the road engine and the local switcher can divide the work.
After uncoupling the remainder of the train BEHIND the blue cars the road engine can spot these on track 4.
In the mean time, after picking up the caboose the switcher can spot the pink cars behind the last 3 yellow cars. The road engine returns to track 3 and couples all cars together. After testing the brakes it's ready to leave, while the local switcher takes the blue cars from track 4 and spots them before their allocated industies.
Important however is the use of track 3. The left half is used by the road engine, the right half at the very same time by the local switcher. Hence track 3 should be divided into 2 separate blocks, just like track 4!
At your service
2 things I have learned from using power routing turnouts.
1. It's easy to get confused when wiring anything more complicated than a dead end spur.
2. Using the points to carry the power will eventually fail.
My solution is to 1. use insulated rail joiners on both tracks on the diverging end (all 4 rails) just to be safe. Sure you can do less and have it work now, but what about when you add something later. 2. Use something other than the points to carry the current.
gmcrail If you have a passing track, and fail to properly gap the turnouts, if you throw one mainline switch for the siding and fail to throw the other at precisely the same instant, you will cause a short circuit through the points of the other turnout. Power routing turnouts must be properly gapped and jumpered to avoid shorts. However, once you grasp the basic principles, it's not a big deal. I use nothing but, but then I'm pretty old-school...
If you have a passing track, and fail to properly gap the turnouts, if you throw one mainline switch for the siding and fail to throw the other at precisely the same instant, you will cause a short circuit through the points of the other turnout. Power routing turnouts must be properly gapped and jumpered to avoid shorts. However, once you grasp the basic principles, it's not a big deal. I use nothing but, but then I'm pretty old-school...
ooops didn't read all of the replies above lions.
Power routing turnouts would eliminate blocks on certain sections of my layout because most sidings are going to be stubs.
I'm not sure if I will have any run around tracks. if I can fit any form of switchable industrie(s) on my layout the tracks will be dead ended.
Could power routing work for a turntable or will that have to be wired into three seperate blocks.
I saw DCC mentioned above I'm going to say this once for the sake of my sanity: Until it becomes a more financially viable option in both money and time for me I'm not switching.
hmmmmm, that's awesome lion. was there any extra wing or things done for this?
LION does dew power routing. At end of line, the terminal receives its power from whichever main line track it is aligned to. If the inbound track is aligned for track 1, it is wired to the inbound track. Throw the switches and track 1 is now wired to the outbound track.
LION does NOT depend on the tracks to perform power routing, this is done either by the Tortoise switch machines (in simpler installations) or by a number of relays in more complicated situations.
LION has a small MOW yard behind the curtain wall at 34th Street. If either switch is aligned to the mainline track, the whole yard is connected to the main line track and receives northbound power. If both switches are aligned for the mainline as is the normal case, the yard is wired for south bound movement into one of three yard tracks. It sounds complicated, but it really is not. Route of LION does not have reversing switches or even throttles for that matter, so movement of trains is simply controlled by the switch levers on the interlocking machine. Rectifiers embedded in stub tracks stop movement in the correct place so that only an outbound alignment will move a train from the sidings.
LION also has one siding that will hold three trains. this one has a gang of three switches (on-off) for each position in the siding. A "Feather" along side of each position detects the presence of a train in that spot.
[ A feather is a long piece of soft smooth plastic that will encroach on the ROW and be pushed aside by a train occupying that location and activating a micro-switch.]
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Paulus Jas ...... think about picking up a few cars from the back of a train. Paul
...... think about picking up a few cars from the back of a train.
You've introduced an example of operations here. I think this is usually a critical element of layout planning and is highly relevant to Gary's question, or to others who may be at the same stage of planning. This might be an important area to explore in order for Gary, and others, to get a better understanding of the issues involved and the effort involved in going with power routing turnouts.
Paul, can you give Gary, and all readers, examples of operating scenarios whereby one locomotive is picking up a few cars from the back of a train? (I assume the lead locos are still coupled to the head)
Not that modelers want to necessarily adhere to any prototype practice, because it could be fun to do regardless, but why and where on the railroad would this typically take place in the prototype?
Burlington Northern #24 I saw this mentioned a couple times in the, well it's the most popular thread at the moment but for some reason I can't remember the name. This was mentioned a couple times and has peaked my interests, the elimination of blocks through power routing turnouts. Is this available for DC? My layout wasn't going to be anything to complex but turnouts would be plentiful, I know my Bachmann EZ track can perform this power routing. would it streamline and eliminate the amount of wiring from a layout or would it require extra wiring? Thank you.
I saw this mentioned a couple times in the, well it's the most popular thread at the moment but for some reason I can't remember the name.
This was mentioned a couple times and has peaked my interests, the elimination of blocks through power routing turnouts. Is this available for DC?
My layout wasn't going to be anything to complex but turnouts would be plentiful, I know my Bachmann EZ track can perform this power routing. would it streamline and eliminate the amount of wiring from a layout or would it require extra wiring?
Thank you.
Power routing turnouts are the time honored way to control dead end sidings or single ended yards, and it works just fine without having separate toggles for every siding. That said, using the points to transfer power can be unreliable.
It is much better to use extra contacts on switch machines or ground throws to direct the power.
As Paul explained they can also be used to reduce the number of blocks that need seperate control. Done properly it can cut the number of blocks that need to be assigned to your throttle in half.
I highly recommend you get Paul Mallery's books - Electrical Handbook for Model Railroads - vol 1 & 2
http://carstensbookstore.com/elhaco.html
These books will explain all the various ways turnouts can direct power and reduce the number of electrical switches your control system will require.
Example - on my layout, complex double track interlockings route their power as needed simply based on the turnout position. This eliminates having extra blocks in those areas.
Here is picture of a control panel for a system I built for another modelers layout:
On this panel, the blocks to each side of the passing siding are connected to the throttles with the push buttons. The track power to both passing siding tracks is controlled only by turnout postion. Example - if both turnouts are set for a track, both blocks on each side must be selected for the train to go through. The track with both turnouts set against the flow is dead no matter which cab buttons are activated. IF, one turnout set to the main track, and the other is set to the siding, the block to either side now controls the whole track with the aligned route. This allows two trains to approach from opposite directions, controlled by separate throttles, and each can enter their track at the passing siding. Additionally, the other trackage you see on the panel is all controlled by power routing turnouts. On this layout the throttles are Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles. Power routing turnouts will likely not make your wiring easier - BUT, once a good wiring scheme in planned and installed, it will make operation smooth and easy. Many people who complain about "toggle flipping" with DC control, have never operated a well planned DC system that minimizes the required actions and is logically thought out based on the desired train movements. Many poorly planned DC layouts have way more blocks than they need. If you would like to learn more about advanced cab control which can simplify operation without going to DCC, contact me by PM and I will send you some additional info. Sheldon
On this panel, the blocks to each side of the passing siding are connected to the throttles with the push buttons. The track power to both passing siding tracks is controlled only by turnout postion.
Example - if both turnouts are set for a track, both blocks on each side must be selected for the train to go through. The track with both turnouts set against the flow is dead no matter which cab buttons are activated.
IF, one turnout set to the main track, and the other is set to the siding, the block to either side now controls the whole track with the aligned route. This allows two trains to approach from opposite directions, controlled by separate throttles, and each can enter their track at the passing siding.
Additionally, the other trackage you see on the panel is all controlled by power routing turnouts.
On this layout the throttles are Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles.
Power routing turnouts will likely not make your wiring easier - BUT, once a good wiring scheme in planned and installed, it will make operation smooth and easy.
Many people who complain about "toggle flipping" with DC control, have never operated a well planned DC system that minimizes the required actions and is logically thought out based on the desired train movements. Many poorly planned DC layouts have way more blocks than they need.
If you would like to learn more about advanced cab control which can simplify operation without going to DCC, contact me by PM and I will send you some additional info.
Sheldon
Hi gentlemen,
The above might help; however you can have power routed turnouts with and without an isolated frog. Those shorts will occur when the frog is not isolated. When both turnouts are set to the siding the main will be off. Just forget one turnout when the frog is isolated and trains on both tracks will start to move. Looking at the lower pic: when blocks are added you can completely turn off that piece of track. The power routing turnouts are now used for ease of switching. When a switcher is on block 2 and the turnout properly alined he can run onto the "joint block" without the need set the block in the proper position. Without power routing turnouts you would need 5 blocks. Block 4 for holding a train, while the joint blocks are needed for switching moves. Cab-Control-Wiring means every block can be connected to every throttle by means of an electrical switch. When more then one train is running at the same time it might result in focusing so much on those switches you forget to watch the trains. Two trains were still quite doable for me, more however took my fun away. Still you can have only one engine in one block; think about picking up a few cars from the back of a train. Why is it so many are opting for DCC? Paul
The above might help; however you can have power routed turnouts with and without an isolated frog.
Those shorts will occur when the frog is not isolated. When both turnouts are set to the siding the main will be off. Just forget one turnout when the frog is isolated and trains on both tracks will start to move.
Looking at the lower pic: when blocks are added you can completely turn off that piece of track. The power routing turnouts are now used for ease of switching. When a switcher is on block 2 and the turnout properly alined he can run onto the "joint block" without the need set the block in the proper position.
Without power routing turnouts you would need 5 blocks. Block 4 for holding a train, while the joint blocks are needed for switching moves.
Cab-Control-Wiring means every block can be connected to every throttle by means of an electrical switch. When more then one train is running at the same time it might result in focusing so much on those switches you forget to watch the trains. Two trains were still quite doable for me, more however took my fun away.
Still you can have only one engine in one block; think about picking up a few cars from the back of a train. Why is it so many are opting for DCC?
BN24, Power routing turnouts are fine, as long as the track electrical power is only applied to the points end of the turnout. For instance, in the case of a stub-end siding. If you have a passing track, and fail to properly gap the turnouts, if you throw one mainline switch for the siding and fail to throw the other at precisely the same instant, you will cause a short circuit through the points of the other turnout. Power routing turnouts must be properly gapped and jumpered to avoid shorts. However, once you grasp the basic principles, it's not a big deal. I use nothing but, but then I'm pretty old-school...
---
Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
===================================
"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
Ok, so it doesn't mean I avoid an accident if I do hit the wrong switch. If blocks and multicabs would be far better for that then I can work with it.
I'm doing one train operation because I'm the only one who's going to be running my layout 99% of the time. thank you for the clarification Alco.
Burlington Northern #24 I saw this mentioned a couple times in the, well it's the most popular thread at the moment but for some reason I can't remember the name. This was mentioned a couple times and has peaked my interests, the elimination of blocks through power routing turnouts. Is this available for DC?
For my own sanity, I abandoned that thread a day or two ago, so I don't know exactly what was said. But power routing turnouts _do not_ eliminate the need for block wiring for multiple train independent DC control. They do allow you to park a loco on a track and turn the power off to the track by throwing the points of the turnout.
_However_ that is not failsafe like a separate electrical switch to turn the power off in a block. If you happen to throw the switchpoints the wrong way, the parked engine starts up.
Better to wire the "parking" block separately (if all you want to do is park a train or engine). It's very simple with an electrical switch, gaps, and feeders. I am sure that it is explained in one of your wiring books.
Or do the work to wire for true multiple cab DC, or go to DCC. Either of those would be much more flexible.
But it depends what you are trying to do, which still seems a bit opaque.
No, that's not what I meant with this post I was using them as a reference when they do work. I was not intending on using them, I prefer Atlas track to other brands.
From what you posted,about Bachmann E-Z track,on 5-10-2013,,You said that the turnouts are junk..So I don't know what to tell you,,if you intend on using them..They would be unreliable,for use of power routing..
Cheers,