I have 2 of the MTH units and I can say I love them. They may be missing a detail here and there but sometimes I think people over exaggerate their lack of detail. I own athearn units and all are junk, burnt out headlights after 6 hours of run time, constant derailments due to warped trucks and they rain detail parts when you need to handle/work on them. Just beware that by purchasing athearn you will be having to dismantle the unit to replace the headlight and ditch light bulbs rather frequently. I avoid athearn at all costs for motive power personally.
Just replaced motors in three MTH SD70ace's and I can tell you one thing if you had to replace motors in the Athearn's you will break something the MTH locos are tuff but will take Athearn's anyday because what you just said MTH has too many downpoints.
Russell
With the new run Athearn SD70ACe's out, I think I will go for the Athearn one.
It seems the MTH ones have too many downpoints IMO.
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA
I have 3 MTH SD70ace's and 3 Genesis SD70ace's.
First off, the MTH model.
There are many, many mistakes on the MTH model, it was a real eye opener to see a picture by picture appraisal of both the real thing and the model, I cant remember which website it was but it was all there for all to see and as I say, many detail mistakes!
Things I don't like:
The MU hoses don't hold a candle to the Athearn ones and were one of the first things that were replaced on my examples. I also made the mistake of buying a DCS sound example. I say mistake as I cannot and it will not consist properly due to it being DCS.
That 'crew chatter' is a huge annoyance and makes the whole thing seem so toy like.
The engine idling sound will very soon get real old to!
When knotching up it sounds to much like one sound stopping and another starting rather than a seamless prime mover rev-up sound you get with the Soundtraxx Tsunami.
I also ripped out the oversize and ugly auto knuckle coupler, to me the negatives outweigh the positives of having the thing in the first place due to its size!
The truck side frames look 'mal nourished' and lack detail and relief.
The exhaust stack / turbo hatch is vastly oversized.
The ditch lights come under the same category as its remote control knuckle coupler and were also changed out on mine with detail's west items which is no mean feat as the pilot railings have to be reworked also.
Things I do like about the MTH model:
It runs very well and is very heavy.
What detail there is, is very well fitted with no glue marks and its very robust in its construction.
Now the Athearn model.
Things I do like:
The detail is amazing and compared to the MTH model is miles ahead in accuracy.
But here's the sore points:
I have one early run example with sound that I picked up for less than half the price of a new example.
The standard of construction on it was nothing short of shockingly terrible, imagine a child wearing boxing gloves with his bin of SD70 parts and a tube of CA on the assembly line here!
Glue marks everywhere you look, along the sill's, cab number boards at all sorts of funny angles as were the headlight housing, sand line brackets, again, all sorts of strange angles, glue marks on the truck sides where the air brake cylinders were attached, more glue marks on the pilots, the list goes on.
Plus the hole inside the speaker enclosure which has been covered a million times before!
Oh not forgetting the skew wiff ditch lights that were so full of glue you had a job to tell wether they were on or off unless it was dark!
Now to the plus side of Athearn's SD70. Or sort of...................
A while ago I got hold of a new 'Miss Katy' #1988, this particular model seems not to exibit any signs or traits of the early models but then I also bought a BNSF example, again from the latest run. Its OK except for one rather major flaw.
The inverter cabinet is made from 3 parts before its painted. On the back end of it, its been assembled poorly and out of square, this has the knock-on effect not fitting to the running board flush which has the knock-on effect of a wedge shapped gap between the front of the inverter cabinet and the rear of the cab, again it smacks of someone on the assembly line not really giving a dam!
Ive fixed the problem myself to a certain degree, having removed the cab and carefully removing the inverter cabinet and reassembling it all so it fits together better, its not perfect but its better than it was!
Sure I could have sent it back but its been in a display cabinet for the last 3 months and Ive only just noticed it, the ugly gap between cab and inverter cabinet on the other side to which it was facing!
My advise would be to carefully check any Athearn model if its possible to before handing over your cash!
I cant do that because my nearest store is over 200 miles away!
After all the above though, I would still have the Athearn version over the MTH, but only just!
If Athearn could sort their quality control, it would be great but they still have their little niggles here and there!
From the sound standpoint, there is no contest here, Tsunami wins hands down over the MTH DCS PS3.
DX8007 genuine Canon Motor BUT
just to throw my 2 cents worth in I have at last count 21 MTH SD70ace/M2 PS3 And 2 DCC Ready versions The PS3 versions have been upgraded for the expanded DCC Capabilities I have replaced a few of the PS3 Boards With Loksound select and one m-2 has a soundtraxx decoder in it as the Loksound and soundtraxx have dynamic brake sound as the PS3 Does not
I Have 1 Athearn genesis SD70Ace (1st release) which I have put The Ulrich Lighting Upgrade And Replaced the speaker with a hi bass version at around $70usd +Postage and my time ,the new version has far better sound but those pesky light bulbs still remain which means a strip down when they blow which all takes time and money , and as a note I do not run this model as when it gets warm (towing a long freight ) it starts hesitating and cutting out as if the decoder is trying to protect its self from an over current I think it may need re-motoring
the MTH DCC Ready version has a high motor failure rate which starts out as jerky running then quickly deteriorates till it stops at which stage things are very hot inside ,I have pulled the offending motor apart and found the commutator segments had filled with carbon from the brushes suspect soft compound brushes are the culprit ,these motors can be replaced with a genuine Canon Motor BUT they are not cheap at around $50usd
the Mth protosound version has the better motor but the sound does not compare that well to the loksound or soundtraxx version
In summary the MTH SD70Ace Can pull Nearly twice the load of the Athearn SD70Ace But each has there share of issues the Athearn Has better Detail But Parts fall off or break when handled often The MTH is far more robust but has less detail (not so much of a problem for me as being 50+ eyesight etc)
the best way to decide is to find someone or hobby store local who has the locos that would like then give them a good run to see which one you like the best after all it is your money you are spending and you buy what you like not what someone else likes
I own both. I have one MTH and four Atheran Genesis (all in UP livery). In my opinion the level of detail on the Athearn SD70ACe models is far far better. They did have some QC on their early releases, but I haven't heard of any issues with their newer releases. I mean the detail is stunning and top notch with the Athearn SD70ACe's! Great motor control and the sound is just fine for my tastes. I have not had any issues running the MTH model on my DCC layout, but I do know of one local modeler who has had issues with his MTH SD70 and others in the online community have expressed having issues. Both are great models, but I have to tip my hat to Athearn.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
What are you guys' opinions on the DCC Operated couplers on the MTH one?
eagle1030 I only have the MTH (however, there is a Genesis in the hobby shop I've got my eye on), so I can only attest to one. I'm also fairly new to the hobby, and run it single on a 4x8. So far, I'm very pleased with it. The sound is incredible. I haven't yet acquired enough cars to truly test it, but so far it strolls away with any load. My only complaints are that I wish I had gotten a higher quality DCC system to activate some functions that are non-essential but useful, and that I had laid track a little better, as there is a gap in the rails that derails the front truck every time.
I only have the MTH (however, there is a Genesis in the hobby shop I've got my eye on), so I can only attest to one. I'm also fairly new to the hobby, and run it single on a 4x8.
So far, I'm very pleased with it. The sound is incredible. I haven't yet acquired enough cars to truly test it, but so far it strolls away with any load. My only complaints are that I wish I had gotten a higher quality DCC system to activate some functions that are non-essential but useful, and that I had laid track a little better, as there is a gap in the rails that derails the front truck every time.
Actually, I do have one real complaint. Those air hoses don't hold a candle to Athearn's, and that detachable snowplow chooses to detach itself at the most inopportune times.
Hi Alexander,
I can't speak to MTH as I don't own any but I can speak to the Genesis model. The quality issues are all related to the first run so avoid those if you can. In addition to the speaker problem already mentioned, the first run had truck problems. Having said that I have three engines from the first run with no problems. After I fixed the speaker, I also tweeked the audio using JMRI and I have the sound dialed in now.
Its a bummer that Athearn in general seems to refuse to use LED's. But I have been lucky so far and no bulbs have burnt out yet. I have also replaced the couplers with Kadee's. I will get around to replacing the lights with the harness from Ulich Models.
http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-615/Athearn-SD70ACe-LED-Lighting/Detail
Here are some close up pics of the second run of the Genesis model so you can get a feel for the detail level.
Good Luck, Derek
I have one of each. MTH is better quality to me by far with things like the metal handrails. I even like the DCC controlled couplers sometimes. The Genesis is typical Athearn--high level of fragile details and questionable truck tracking vs MTH. I like the Soundtraxx F11 braking, but the speakers are better in the MTH.
The DCS(MTH protocol) works with DCC. But, some of the features are unavailable--ones I haven't yet needed however. There is a list of what will work on DCC in the instructions, probably available online.
Richard
I have 2 DC Genesis BNSF SD70ace's from the first run that were the first units I ran on my layout when I completed the loop. They both run excellent at slow speeds and pull a 7 ft long train. One headlight has burned out and the plow fell off while running. They are slightly louder than my IMRC Gevo's but overall I'm quite happy with them and would buy more. I don't own any MTH because they initially didn't offer a DC version until a few months before the Genesis came out.
Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!
There is a guy on YouTube who did a comparison chart, IIRC he gave an edge to the MTH loco. I have a Genesis SD70ACe myself and I am very happy with it, including low speed motor control, which is just fantastic (see that thing barely creeping along at Step 2) - although I have seen a couple posts here which don't like Tsunami motor control.
Hey I have both the Athearn Genesis and a DCC ready MTH that I put sound in (one got Tsunami, the other Loksound). I like them both, but overall, I give the edge to the Athearn, especially the 2nd and later versions.They have the factory fixed sound enclosure and the dynamic brake fan is a fan vs a sticker on the earlier ones. I have a first gen one, and it needs a tiny bit of work as I bought it 2nd hand. I am going to replace the bulbs in the Athearn with LEDs as one of the ditch lights and one of the headlights has burned out, but that is my only bash on it. It does weigh a bit less than the MTH and its amazing detailed parts are very fragile.
The MTH has LEDs and nice weight, but lacks some detail. Also, two times I had to send one of my two back for a motor that was shorting out decoders. I can't say much about the PS3 sound equipped MTHs except that I never bought one bc I dont like the sound on them as the sound on the PS3 gives me a headache, I dont like the horn, and Ive heard theyve had some gear stripping problems in addition to some having my motor shorting issues. But the MTH is nice and heavy so it pulls a ton. I have found MTH's product support sketchy imho, and Athearn has always been prompt and responsive when Ive had problems (but not with the ACe).
I have one more Athearn Genesis ACe on order (NS Heritage unit) due in September, and if I was to buy anymore, I'd be the Athearn.
Just my 2 cents as a owner of both.
Brad
So I am looking at buying a sound-equipped EMD SD70ACe(sizable investment I know, that's why I would like some help.). I know Athearn and MTH both make them, I am not sure which brand I should buy. I like the added features of the MTH one, but I hear since it's made for DCS it can cause problems on DCC. But then I've heard the Athearn suffer from QC issues.
Can anyone help me here, and give me their opinions? Thanks a lot.