I didn't mean to start any controversy guys.
I was into the hobby when I was a teenager many years ago and I'm now returning to it.My skill level is basically what it was back then.A beginner skill level!
There have been a lot of changes since then and I'm still trying to catch-up to what's been going on.Back when I was a teenager there wasn't as much highly detailed RTR products like there are now and I would have never had the skill level then to do those kind of detailing projects.I like the Sergent couplers and I figured I'd start improving my skills by doing some coupler swap outs for the Sergents,but I'm not going to risk damaging a custom weathered car if I can avoid it!
Ok, sounds like it won't be much of an issue to convert the Exactrail 5344 then.Thanks very much for the tips and added info.
Thanks for the info!
I did look at the Sargent site before posting my response. I didn't find the site to be very informative as to what was making the Sargent Coupler attractive to the O.P.
I did misunderstand the possibility that the O.P. might be an experienced modeller. For that I apologize!
You guys, and your endeavors to make model railroading as realistic as possible are in a different realm than I am. Good luck with this. Not that I am not interested in making my trains as realistic as I can; but, I feel there are other aspects than the Proto specifications, that make my railroad more realistic, including ease of operation, weathering, etc.
I will say that the freight and passenger car coupler boxes I have come across, all seem to have standardized dimensions. Although I am stupefied by the thought of paying $30-$40.00 for a RTR freight car (Exact Rail, etc.) I can't imagine these manufacturers would throw a wrench into this standardization, by coming up with a different idea for a coupler box!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626 So, you say you are new to the hobby. You have been given some excellent advice. My advice would be to listen to what others are saying to you about coupler choice.
So, you say you are new to the hobby. You have been given some excellent advice. My advice would be to listen to what others are saying to you about coupler choice.
Actually he said: "I'm new to the more prototypical scale models and the skill sets involved." That doesn't sound like a newbee to me. He sounds more like someone that is starting to pay more attention to detail and knows his skills will have to improve. Seems to me he's already done some homework and decided that Sergent couplers are something he wants, more power to him.
NP2626 Why has the Sargent coupler caught your fancy? I've been in this hobby for quite some time and felt I was up to speed on things and I must admit I have never heard of; or, seen the Sargent coupler. Do you simply feel it is that much more realistic than say a Kadee # 5? Does it do more than Kadees do?
Why has the Sargent coupler caught your fancy? I've been in this hobby for quite some time and felt I was up to speed on things and I must admit I have never heard of; or, seen the Sargent coupler. Do you simply feel it is that much more realistic than say a Kadee # 5? Does it do more than Kadees do?
If you haven't looked for it already, here is the Sergent coupler website: Sergent Engineering.
And no I have nothing to do with Sergent Engineering other than being a satisfied customer.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Drudge,
I've installed Sergent couplers in various models from different manucturers. Some of the makers are Branchline, LBF, P2K, Atlas, Intermountain, Athearn (RTR and Genesis), and ExactRail. I still have many others to do.
The ExactRail I installed the Sergents into was a 5277 boxcar (not sure if it's the same as IM's). This model came with Kadee #5's but it also features the "narrow-style" draft box like the 5344. The Sergent dropped right in without needing any modifications to the coupler or the draft box, also the height came out perfect. The 5277 boxcar didn't have an uncoupler lever detail but the Athearn Genesis and Branchline cars did (these were Berwicks by the way). All you need to do is to see if the uncoupler lever part can be removed prior to taking the coupler box off. If it can't, then unscrew the coupler box and slowly (carefully) slide out the box cover to clear the uncoupler bar. Work slowly and you will avoid damage to the part. I can't help with the Intermountain cars sisnce it was the ACF centerflows I did the coupler swap on. Sorry I don't have any pictures of the work I did but I'll keep that in mind on future installs.
I have found that wherever a Kadee #5 will fit, so will a Sergent. The models that needed modification to either a coupler (shank thickness) or draft box lid was with the Athearn RTR tank cars. I don't really like the idea of having to thin out the coupler shank to help it fit into the draft box, so instead I choose to file the coupler box lid a bit. I think for the other Athearn tank cars I have I'll probaly purchase the narrow shank couplers to see it that's a better option.
Since you're going all Sergent I'll suggest that you invest in the height gauge, assembly fixture (if you don't buy the pre-assembled ones), and spare ball bearing/spring packets. The springs are the fastest to get lost, at least until you find a good method that prevents fly-aways while installing them. I've yet to feel the need to get the reamer tool but if the time comes when I do need it, I'll buy it then.
Good luck it's not as difficult as it seems.
The Sergent couplers,remind me of the plastic couplers,that they used to put in a lot of BB kits, especially, the dummy engines...
Cheers,
Frank
Drudge,I've worked with Sergents a little bit, & I appreciate their scale appearance & function.I usually use them on Locomotive models for Scale Photo Shoots, however, I have modified a KaDee 158 to work with Sergents, & made a video of it, you may be able to find it here by searching.I have not done any Rolling Stock, I usually use KaDee 158's for working trains, & that is sometimes not advised.I do have some Exact Rail rolling stock, & they seem to have KaDee compatible coupler boxes, I have been in many of them replacing the unpainted KaDees for already Painted ones.This presents a couple things;Sergent has a reamer that will allow one to enlarge the hole in the coupler shank to fit over a Boss that is KaDee sized. I got that, because it is a nice reamer in a nice size. It would allow you to leave the coupler boxes stock.The Sergents may be quite a bit shorter in length, so you may want to check that.If you do not care if the original coupler boxes have the stock bosses or screw hole, chisel it out & drill & tap it to fit the Sergent at the depth you choose.If the Coupler Cut bars are fixed to the bottom cover, they can be disassembled & pushed out of the way, if careful that will not mess anything up.If you will re-drill & tap them, I would suggest carefully removing the cut bars from the box bottoms, for reassembly later.Best of luck, & hope you enjoy the results! Please share!
I think the Sargent couplers are easier to uncouple but harder to couple then a Kadee. As far as look is concerned they are much more prototypical looking then any Kadee including the #58 series.
Jack W.
Why has the Sargent coupler caught your fancy? I've been in this hobby for quite some time and felt I was up to speed on things and I must admit I have never heard of; or, seen the Sargent coupler before. Do you simply feel it is that much more realistic than say a Kadee # 5? Does it do more than Kadees do?
Hi,
I'm aware of the compatiblity issues and for my purposes it's not a concern for me.I'm more interested in the prototypical look and function of the couplers and I just can't seem to find specifics on the cars that aren't listed on the Sergent site that I need info on to convert.
Thanks
Another thing to consider when choosing couplers is are you going to visit another layout or share yours with club members or a round robin group? If so, you will want a compatible coupler. Much the same recommendation that has been expressed in some posts on what brand of DCC one should purchase.
Type of coupler can also effect selling price in some locations. I know the used market around here there's about a $3 - $5 difference between cars with hook horn and Kadee.
Good luck,
Richard
Hi cacole,
I've have looked through the whole site before,but I still don't know what exactly to expect with Exactrail cars.There is no mention of those particular cars ,which could mean that they are no more different than swapping out a Kadee #58 or there may be more to it.
I was hoping someone here had done the swap on an Exactrail car(in this case a 5344) and could give me a better idea what to expect.In particular if the cut lever needs to be detached or if there is any filing or reaming needed to be done or pocket modification.
cacoleThe main thing you need to consider is that once you convert to Sergent Engineering couplers you must use their product exclusively, since they are not compatible with any other brand or type of knuckle coupler.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
There's already step-by-step instructions on the Sergent Engineering web site and some videos on You Tube where people explain how to install them.
www.sergentengineering.com
The main thing you need to consider is that once you convert to Sergent Engineering couplers you must use their product exclusively, since they are not compatible with any other brand or type of knuckle coupler.
I have a long string of 30 or so 40 foot reefers in HO scale converted to Sergent Engineering couplers, but I had to leave Kadees on one end of the first and last car so I can run them.
First off,I would like to say Hi to the forum.
I'm new to the more prototypical scale models and the skill sets involved.I have pretty basic skills and don't have much in the way of modeling tools.I have some custom weathered Exactrail 5344 boxcars as well as an Intermountain 1958 cu ft. open sides hopper and an Intermountain 5277 boxcar coming to me shortly and I'd like to know if anyone has converted any of these types of cars to Sergents.
I believe the Sergent site explains the process of converting over the Intermountain cars I have coming that use the #78 kadee's(which is a little more involved than what I feel comfortable tackling myself)I do however,know a custom modeler that has the skills,but he has never used or gone through the process of converting cars over to Sergent's.He said he would be willing to give it a try if I didn't feel confident in doing it myself,but I nor he knows exactly what it entails to convert over the Exactrail cars.
I've only been able to find mention that the compatible shank Sergent's pretty much just drop right into #5 or #58 pockets.
When I contacted Frank from Sergent Engineering, he said that he had never personally done the conversion on an Exactrail car.He did say that he knows others that have and it didn't seem to be to difficult.
The Exactrail site says the 5344 boxcars use #58 Kadee's have a "narrow-style" draft box.Does the Sergent coupler need to have the shank filed down to fit these coupler boxes?Does the coupler just drop right in or are there other modifications required?
Also,since these cars have the uncoupler lever detail,does it have to be dettached from the coupler box cover to open it and is it something that can be done without damaging the weathering?
If anyone could provide pictures of the installation process or a step by step(if needed) that would be very helpful!