Plastic Wheels = Dirty Tracks?

[RideOnRoad]

I have read a number of times that one of the inherent evils of plastic wheels is they cause dirty tracks, at least more so than metal wheels.  I am curious as to the cause.

Note:  This is not intended to generate a discussion/debate on metal vs. plastic wheels.  Just an answer to the cause of a dirtier track.

[maxman]

As I understand it, the plastic wheels don't cause dirty track, but rather attract (or pick up) dirt easier.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Plastic invariably creates static electricity. Thus it attracts dust. Dust builds up into dirt.

[zstripe]

The plastic wheels don't cause dirty track,, the dirt,dust, on the tracks will cling to the plastic,easier and faster than metal wheels...spreading it around your tracks..

Cheers,

Frank

[BRAKIE]

Richard,Several years back MR had a article on what causes dirty track among those was electrical residue,dandruff from humans and pets,skin flakes,microscopic bug droppings,house hold dust and other fine items.

Of course a microscope was used in the "causes of dirty track" research..I know there was other things but,I can't recall what these things was...Needless to say it was a very interesting read.

[tstage]

jeffrey-wimberly

Dust builds up into dirt.

...which 90% of the former is our own dead skin...

[MisterBeasley]

I have contrary evidence about this.  My layout is built with a subway beneath the above-ground models.  I know that it's time to clean my track when the subway trains begin to stutter and stall.  The surface trains are still running fine, but I use a CMX machine so I just open the windows and do the whole layout at once.  I never get to the point where my freights have problems.

My rolling stock probably has mostly metal wheels by this time, but I started with a lot of plastic-wheel cars from my teenage years, so there are still a lot of "legacy" cars out there.  However, only metal-wheeled subways run underground.  So, why is it that the tracks that get dirty first on my layout are the ones where I never run plastic wheels?

[BRAKIE]

MisterBeasley

However, only metal-wheeled subways run underground.  So, why is it that the tracks that get dirty first on my layout are the ones where I never run plastic wheels?

Wow..Is that like a $64,000 question?

I dunno but,wish I knew the answer to these mysteries..

 

[zstripe]

Mr.B,

You probably have,a lot of heavily laden,freight trains,on the above section,that are causing,tremors in the ground and dirt and dust is falling on the tracks on the subway line?? LOL.

Cheers,

Frank

[MisterBeasley]

zstripe

Mr.B,

You probably have,a lot of heavily laden,freight trains,on the above section,that are causing,tremors in the ground and dirt and dust is falling on the tracks on the subway line?? LOL.

Cheers,

Frank

Whew, that's a relief.  I thought the tremors were a prehistoric monster awakened from millenia of slumber by my BLI Hudson's whistle.

[modelmaker51]

I used to clean my track with a variety of solvent cleaners like alcohol, laquer thinner, etc. I always had some plastic wheels that would pick up dirt. Then I switched to running with a few drops of Wahl's Clipper oil on the track and that seemed to have eliminated the dirty wheel problem. Since about 6 or 7 years now I have been using CRC 2-26 electronics cleaner to clean my tracks and wheels and that has completely eliminated my dirty wheel issues and I only have to clean the layout once or twice a year. I have about 400 freight cars of which 70% still have plastic wheels.

The CRC 2-26 has some chemicals in it that condition the track so it repels dirt rather than attracting dirt like solvents do. 

[charlie9]

this is an opinion, only,  based on several decades in the hobby.  ho scale experience.

if your layout environment is such that dirty track and dirty wheels are a problem, then plastic wheels will exacerbate the problem.  in that case metal wheels will be of some benefit.

if such is not the case, then, plastic wheels will not cause much, if any, trouble.

i run about a 50/50 mix metal and plastic and since i am lucky enough to have a pretty clean layout area, i seldom clean wheels or track.  i only replace plastic wheels when they are on magnetic axles or if they are out of round or otherwise defective.

you may not find this to be the case but it has worked out for me for many, many years.

years ago when i had a layout area that was not so clean or environmentally stable, plastic wheels got a build up on them that eventually caused derailments and had to be scraped off with a screw driver.

bottom line, i think the need for metal wheels runs the range from helpful to an obsessive waste of money depending upon your circumstances and attitude.

what the heck?  some guys just like the sound.

chalie

[CSX_road_slug]

My layout is in a garage, where dust and bugs always seem to find their way in.  All know is, before I got rid of my plastic wheels I spent more time cleaning track than I did running trains.

One additional benefit of metal wheels is that since they are heavier, they lower the center of gravity on some of my otherwise top-heavy cars.

[peahrens]

I don't know the science behind this issue on the causal side.  From what I've read in the forum I've come to consider there are a number of interrelated items of importance regarding cause or mitigation of fouling, and a key question is relative importance, so ultimately we make interpretations and make choices about controlling causes and/or mitigation effects of fouling of track and rolling stock. 

One is the environment; e.g., I considered the garage vs. climate controlled interior of the house.  Many reported the considerable impacts of this (e.g., more dusty garage).  In central TX, we have lots of dust in the air, so more limited air intrusion is likely significant.  Another is the plastic vs metal wheels issue, re: relative fouling of wheels and effect on track, discussed here and elsewhere, and the importance in a given environment.  Another is the treatment of the track, including the option to "gleam" it (see other threads), treat it with anti-corrosive or anti-fouling compounds.  Another is track cleaning methods / frequency; e.g., dusting, wiping with a cleaner (e.g., alcohol), cleaning with a cleaning car (of various types, abrasive or solvent, frequency, etc).  I presume the frequency of running trains also counts, plus frequency of cleaning loco/cars wheels, etc.  And of course there is the issue of relative corrosion rates and corrosion products (versus dirt) effect on conductivity of different track types (e.g., brass vs nickel silver).  All these would be interrelated but the "factors" are not quantitatively defined as far as I know.

In my case, I have a climate controlled, moderate (some would say smallish) HO layout.  I went with metal wheels for both potential cleanliness (buying into that theory) and as well rolling efficiency (which helps with pulls up the 2.4 percent grade).  Perhaps as importantly, I "gleamed" my track, which I presume reduces fouling potential in a given situation.  I occasionally dust the track with an alcohol wet cloth and/or vacuum for dust minimization.  And when things might be deteriorating a bit (noticeable with DCC locos), I clean the track with a CMX car dripping denatured alcohol and also clean my loco wheels with alcohol by running driven wheels over an alcohol wet paper towel, plus occasionally cleaning the steam loco tender wheels with a Dremel buffer wheel.  I haven't cleaned metal cars wheels yet but some day (every 3 years or so???) might do that too.

I know this is a bit beyond the specific question, but it struck me that there are a number of key, interrelated factors in this area related to minimizing causes or dealing with existing fouling, and we have to consider all these things it seems. 

 

[doctorwayne]

Off-hand, I'd guess that about 85% of my rolling stock has plastic wheels, and I don't clean track.

charlie9

.....what the heck?  some guys just like the sound.

And I'm not one of them.

[NP2626]

My layout is in an old basement, built in the early 1900s.  It is dirty down there and probably going to stay that way.  There would not have been room in any other part of the house for a layout and here in northern Minnesota, I need my 2.5 car garage for my vehicles and would have hated to insulate it to make it usable for a layout in the winters here. So, I'm thankful that I have a basement to conduct my hobby endeavors.

In my dirty basement, I've needed to clean my track once a year with a Bright-Boy and I run special trains with Masonite Pads under the cars over the layout irregularly.  When I see a loco seems balky, I clean it's wheels with Goo Gone.  I noticed that plastic wheels collected dirt on them to the point of causing derailments and switched to Proto 2000 metal wheel sets.  I've allowed no plastic wheels on my layout for 15 years and have not cleaned a single freight or passenger car wheel in all that time.

My theory on why plastic wheels get dirty is in agreement with Jeffrey-Wimberly's.  I think It's like rubbing a balloon in your hair, building up static electricity, the balloon becomes attracted to anything and everything!

DOCTORWAYNE, I have an excess of plastic wheels I can send you free of charge and it will be my pleasure to do so.  I have thrown the vast majority of them away; but, hated doing it!  Do you want them?  

[jeffrey-wimberly]

NP2626

I've needed to clean my track once a year with a Bright-Boy and I run special trains with Masonite Pads under the cars over the layout irregularly.

I use a Bachmann track cleaning tank car. It's right behind the locos in constant service. It has a dry non-abrasive pad that's dragged on the rails. Once a week I wet the pad with alcohol. That's the extent of my track cleaning. The wheels of the cars are cleaned once a year. The plastic wheels are the only ones that need it.

[BATMAN]

This is just an observation on my part as it relates to my own situation. Plastic wheels do tend to gunk up faster than metal wheels. However the dirt and dust problem we experience on our layouts comes from the environment we put them in. If you run in a really clean environment I don't think plastic wheels will be an issue. In a dirty environment, yes plastic will get dirty faster than metal.

When our furnace was replaced a few years back, we forked out a extra couple of thousand for a top rate filter system. Boy what a difference that made to the dust in the house. The layout and house is just always clean, dust is virtually nonexistent. The rails get a quick wipe here or there once a year or so, but they stay really clean.

My wife runs herds of Golden Retrievers through the house constantly. The money for the filter was the best I ever spent.

[BRAKIE]

jeffrey-wimberly

 The wheels of the cars are cleaned once a year. The plastic wheels are the only ones that need it.

 

Jeff,I've notice locomotive wheels get dirty faster then metal freight car wheels..A very strange phenomenon since both pick up static discharge as they roll down the track..

 

I've seen plastic wheels so dirty its like the car had its handbrake set.As of now 70% of my cars have metal wheels..Another 10% awaits their change out and the last 20% is stored and may never see service again.

[NP2626]

BRAKIE

jeffrey-wimberly

 The wheels of the cars are cleaned once a year. The plastic wheels are the only ones that need it.

 

Jeff,I've notice locomotive wheels get dirty faster then metal freight car wheels..A very strange phenomenon since both pick up static discharge as they roll down the track..

 

I've seen plastic wheels so dirty its like the car had its handbrake set.As of now 70% of my cars have metal wheels..Another 10% awaits their change out and the last 20% is stored and may never see service again.

Just a wild guess: Electricity is passing between the track and wheels of locos and also locomotive wheels are likely more exposed to slippage, causing static build up.

[doctorwayne]

NP2626

DOCTORWAYNE, I have an excess of plastic wheels I can send you free of charge and it will be my pleasure to do so.  I have thrown the vast majority of them away; but, hated doing it!  Do you want them?  

Thanks for the offer, but a friend gave me a large supply about 10 years ago.   Many of them actually were junk, but I got enough good ones to get rid of the junky ones I had.  I don't change-out wheels unless there's an issue with them.

I had an earlier layout in an older basement, but found that finishing the room (drywall, suspended ceiling, and a door) made it a lot easier to keep the track clean (no cleaning, although the layout was in place for only 5 or 6 years).
My current layout is in a basement built for it, but for some reason my wife insisted that I also build a house atop it.   Even worse, instead of filling the basement as-planned, it occupies less than half - probably a good thing at the rate I work.

While the whole basement is well insulated, the room is neither heated nor cooled, with the temperature remaining fairly constant throughout the year.  I'm sure that the lack of a furnace contributes to the minimal layout maintenance required.  I do vacuum the room occasionally, including the unpainted concrete floor, and the layout itself, but that seems an easier task than cleaning track and all those wheels.

Wayne

[Burlington Northern #24]

Yep NP it's arcing electricity between loco wheels and the track, It appears on both DC and DCC layouts but is more prevalent on DCC layouts because of Max voltage constantly running. (this was from an N scale magazine article a couple issues back)

OP, I guess plastic wheels make a mess but I'm not entirely sure. One day I'd like to have metal wheels because I like the clickety clack along the track. Plastic wheels do to but it's not very audible. Either way my track was dirty, but sometimes little spots that were like gum spat out on a crosswalk on the track when a number of cars had primarily plastic wheel.

In this Vid, the CB&Q stock car and ULTX(blue) tank car have metal wheels the rest is plastic.

watch?v=p3vdwhCUzv0 

In this one the set is all metal wheels.

watch?v=xGItvrfPAeQ

[BRAKIE]

NP2626

Just a wild guess: Electricity is passing between the track and wheels of locos and also locomotive wheels are likely more exposed to slippage, causing static build up.

Agreed but,it just seems odd since plastic wheels picks up the residue and metal wheels don't.I've notice some other oddities as well concerning freight car wheels both plastic and metal.

Not being  electrical inclined(understatement of the decade?) I don't fully understand such things I guess.

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Some metal wheels do pick up lots of dirt. Sintered metal wheels for instance and yes they are still made.

[BRAKIE]

jeffrey-wimberly

Some metal wheels do pick up lots of dirt. Sintered metal wheels for instance and yes they are still made.

 

Thankfully Athearn done away with those wheels on their RTR locomotives.They are still available as a replacement part though.

 

Another  strange phenomenon  is how some brands of plastic wheels seems to collect more crud then other brands.Same applies between brands of metal wheels.I notice my metal Athearn and Atlas wheels shines like a new dime after hours of operation while some OEM brands seems to gather a small light ring of crud between the flange and thread..

[Lake]

CSX_road_slug

My layout is in a garage, where dust and bugs always seem to find their way in.  All know is, before I got rid of my plastic wheels I spent more time cleaning track than I did running trains.

This is my situation and I have the same experience as you and I run N-Scale. Now after replacing most of the plastic wheels (with Atlas metal wheels) and using NO-OX, wow, what a difference. I only clean the wheels of any one engine about once a week, all most never the track.

[Lake]

NP2626

Just a wild guess: Electricity is passing between the track and wheels of locos and also locomotive wheels are likely more exposed to slippage, causing static build up.

This the conclusion that I have also come to. Clean the engine current pick up wheels often enough eliminates most problems in a not clean  room environment, such as I have. 

[cedarwoodron]

Not being in any way knowledgeable about materials science, but an astute observer of what I see at swap meets, the old sintered wheels must have some surface irregularities that encourage collection of crud, as many old Athearns BB engines I pick up are like that- crudded up significantly. The acetal plastic wheels on the same vintage old Athearn rolling stock BB's also have a lot of crud, but it is a quick firm cleaning with 91 alcohol that restores them. This material may be less porous than other, cheaper plastic wheel compounds, accounting for it's ease of restoration. However, that being said, I generally have abandoned all the rolling stock plastic wheels in favor of Intermountain metal ones. No crud build up, but that also presumes a track cleaning regime. I find the idea of gleaming the track interesting, as it may be a good bet as I move into DCC operation this fall. Cedarwoodron

[HaroldA]

I have been transitioning from plastic to metal wheels.  On some of the older cars the plastic wheels were really gunked up and it seemed as though they showing signs of wear.  Whether this will make a difference in track cleaning is probably still open for debate.  My layout is in a basement and I know I have dust issues down there despite having a pretty good filter on the furnace.  Maybe for me its more environmental so only time will tell.