I had hoped an Operations topic for the forums could be started; however, I have no idea how to get the ball rolling. I would think this to be a subject which could be helpful to those with an interest in OPERATIONS, which I think is a considerable number of people who visit these forums.
With the ease with which members of this forum seem to get into disagreements about simple things, I am hesitant to say what I feel I want to say on this topic!
However, here goes:
I have Car Cards for almost all of my freight cars and Waybills filled out for around 50 cars. My trains are relatively short, around 14 cars, as that is what fits in my sidings. I am DCC equipped; but, at this point, I can only run one train at a time as my hand held throttle is being repaired. Once that is returned, I will start running a Through Freight out on the High Iron, while attempting to run a Local Freight making deliveries. Right now, I am only running the Local, making deliveries and pick-ups.
So far, I'm finding operations to be like work! I have been a fork lift driver and also driven deliveries to customers at various times in my life and find "Operations" to be very much like that. What I'm saying is: I'm not finding operations to be all that "Fun", so far! With the "Car Card" system, it also feel a little like 35% of the job is running trains and 65% is running "Car Cards" and "Waybills", sort of like DC where I ran the track and not the trains!
Don't get me wrong! I'm not giving up on operations, as I realize I have just started out in this endeavor and need to invest more time and investigate a bit further.
I realize there are other ways to "Operate". However, maybe for me, the interest in this hobby is building models and not operating.
If there is a question in this post, it is: How many others have found out that operations did not hold their interest?
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Yep - If you are going to attempt to replicate operations like a prototype then you'll run into real situations (as much as MRRing will allow) just like the prototype did; some which were real puzzles to work out.
I'm always amazed how the guys in the interlocking towers handled some of those busy interchanges. Makes you have a greater respect and appreciation for what it takes to operate a real train. No "0-5-0" bailouts for derailed cars.
That said, I think operations would probably be more fun with more people. That would help disseminate and share some of the more "tedious" responsibilities to others so that you aren't doing it all yourself.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage That said, I think operations would probably be more fun with more people. That would help disseminate and share some of the more "tedious" responsibilities to others so that you aren't doing it all yourself. Tom
Probably right, not really a choice where I live! I did join the OpSIG, in hopes of linking up with others who "Operate" in my my locality. Did not find any. Have thought about running an ad in the local paper to see if other MRRs are in my town.
To my mind the key to operations being "fun" is 1) having a model railroad that is well suited to operations -- not just interesting and logical places to switch cars but smooth and reliable track and rolling stock not prone to derailing or stalling -- as well as 2) a compatible group of people to operate with. Without some operating system or idea of some sort it is pretty tough to just "run trains" for 3 hours but it is possible to have a true operating session run 3 hours and then wonder where the time went.
To my way of thinking -- and I am nowhere as advanced or as fussy as Andy Sperandeo is, as expressed in his monthly MR column or the resulting book -- operations take two basic forms: the orderly running of trains and the orderly routing of loads/empties. The advanced guys sneer at the old time honored "sequential" scheduling of trains but it is an easy way to ease into the idea of the orderly running of trains. And on some prototypes it is less a matter of time than sequence for their freights.
As to the orderly routing of freight cars (passenger operations is a whole other category that I tend to lump more with the orderly running of trains), the "fun" part to my mind is in not being arbitrary but being directed what to do by a system of some sort. Again I think the idea is to ease into it. That often means removing, for the time being, a considerable number of freight cars from the layout and confining your attention to a smaller number. I think too many guys getting into operation try to keep too many cars in the system initially.
A friend of mine first got into operation using an extremely simple system - he has since moved beyond it but I continue to think it has merit and was especially easy for newcomers to understand. Each car had a card. Each card has a list of destinations and an indication of whether it was loaded or empty. And not all destinations were industries -- sometimes it was just a yard and then "through freight west" or "through freight east." Most important, sometimes on the sequence, as a sort of "wild card" it would say "off layout."
That car would be put into a cabinet. The card would be put last in a small file box. For each card put at the back of the box, a card from the front would be taken, and that car removed from the cabinet.
I think a system that gets cars off the layout -- and depending on how many cars you have and how many operating sessions it might be months or even a year before that car is seen again -- is a good way to avoid having every operating session seem depressingly identical to the prior one. So can keeping track of the train sequence (or timetable and clock if you go that route) so that every session does not start with the same sequence.
Originally he used a paper clip to drop down from item to item on the list of destinations. This worked well I thought but eventually he moved to a printed card with boxes that would be checked off with pencil, and when the card was full, out would come his Pink Pearl eraser and he'd start all over again.
Just by way of example imagine you have a SP Boxcar. The more you know about freight cars the more accurate you can be in your choice of desinations. Not all boxcars carry food for example. The card might look like this, and imagine a large paperclip "highlighting" the destination and then being moved down
Southern Pacific Boxcar 259266
East Yard
Wilson Furniture
Through Freight East
Off Layout
Through Freight West
West Yard
Pure Foods canning company
----------
So the car starts in East Yard and needs to get to Wilson Furniture. That means, the local freight. the paper clip is moved down to say Wilson Furniture so the Local's crew knows what to do.
Next session the clip moved down again, and the local knows to pick up the car. Through freight east presumably picks it up at East yard so the local knows to take it back there. The clip moves down again.
That means the yard master or staging yard operator who receives Through Freight East removes the car from the layout, places it in a cabinet or other storage and selects another car from the card index box. The clip is moved down.
When that card comes up again it now directs that the car goes to East Yard again, via whatever freight train goes there. And so on.
The virtue of the system is you can do the cards in pencil, give it a try with a limited number of cars and if you don't like it, there is no huge investment in time.
A refinement of this is to actually add or remove open loads from appropriate cars. that can add to the fun for the yardmaster or staging operator.
But again to go back to my main points, if you don't find operating sessions to be fun, it might be the layout is not suited and it might be that you need to find a more compatible group of folks to operate with. The system that is employed can indeed seem too complex to have fun with, but often it is not the system that is really to blame.
Dave Nelson
NP2626,
I think that tstage got it right. It would be more interesting, perhaps more fun, if you had others to work Operations with rather than as a lone wolf.
I have only recently started to mess around with Operations on my layout but, as a lone wolf, I have only limited interest in getting too serious about it. It does seem to be a lot like work. If formal Operations were a requirement of Model Railroading, I probably wouldn't be involved in Model Railroading. It is an enjoyable element if you don't take it too seriously, in my view. But once you start with the Car Cards and Waybills and the computer programs, well, let's just say that is not for me.
As far as a separate forum goes, that idea sparked some immediate interest a few weeks back when some of us, you and me included, started a flurry of threads of the subject. But I quickly lost interest in a separate forum when the replies to those threads started coming in. I thought that mlehman's participation was particularly positive and helpful, and I got a tremendous amount of help and support from another forum member off line.
But I found some of the on line comments on the forum by a few of the members to be a little smug. In retrospect, I am not at all sure that they meant to be, but some of those forum members that are knowledgeable and active in Operations seem to have little patience for Operations newbies. There seems to be a wide divide between the Operations experts and the Operations wannabees.
Rich
Alton Junction
I also enjoy the building and modeling a as much as, if not more than, the operations. Sometimes, I'm happy setting up a train, and running it while I "putz" with a project. Sometimes I get in the operations mood, and have a train drop of a set of cars in the siding, and then "disappear", moving on down the line. Then the local comes out and sorts out cars, and places them where they need to be, exchanging full for empties, etc. and assembling a cut of "out-bound" cars for the next train. I have a small layout, which includes a trans-loading facilities, a large mill/bakery/food processing plant, a pulpwood siding, and a plastic injection molding plant, and a couple of "off-layout" industries that the local travels to, with tankers and gondolas, so I can "generate" about 10 to 16 cars for each "operating session". I don't have waybills, and paperwork for each car, as to me that seems like a lot of work. I do understand that in a club situation, with many operations and operators in progress at the same time, such paper work and operating procedures would be critical. Since it's by myself, on my time, I operate, and run trains on my schedule,
I guess what I'm trying to say is I do operations when I feel like it, and not everytime I start up the layout, and that keeps it fun, and satisfying, and not like work.
Just a few of my thoughts.
Mike.
My You Tube
Depends on the era and what you are modeling.
If you are a branch line, the conductor and the engineer would sit down (over coffee and sticky buns) and plan the day's activities. They already know their railroad, where the switches are, which way they face and what the industries are. So they make their plan and run their train.
Beyond that "Operations" is for a group of people working a fairly large railroad, and then yes, paperwork will take up a majority of your time. Used to be the conductor sat in the caboose with his papers, and could work with them while the train was enroute from one place to another. Today the conductor rides in the locomotive, and all of his 'paperwork" is on a laptop computer. (Even the package delivery guy has a computer in his truck. So it you are modeling modern, you will want a computer in the train room.
To the LION, amoured with passenger trains as he is, operations consists of running the trains on time and making scheduled meets as necessary. That meant making a map of the railroad (the entire division, not just what was modeled) marking out distances and times, and creating string graphs to fit the trains together to meet the demands of the service. Since LION always had a large commuter operation, a train could not just appear any old time of the day, but had to get people to and from the city in a timely manner, when they wanted to go. Having made all of that, armed with a time tabl, the LION could run his trains.
LIONS are not really interested in freight trains, ok big unit trains of coal, grain and oil are nice, kinda like passenger trains with different passengers, but setting out cars up and down the line, well yes it must be done, but the LION would skip cards and stuff in favor of computerized manifests and such. Imagine that on a 1930s layout!
But the, as you know, the LION now runs subway trains, these do have a schedule, though waiting on a platform you would never know that. LION made a "Train Register" which is his own compromise between an employee timetable, a switch list, and a genuine NYCT train register. Him can run his trains according to this book. (Mind you, he has never done this yet--the railroad still needs a little more work before this can happen) but at least I have set myself a goal to aim at. A glance across its pages will show where I add more trains for the rush hours and where I pull them off the road at night. I did not include the work trains, these must be written in under the comments. But it does keep a focus on the railroad instead of just running trains.
If LION was you, him would work up the schedules, and then discover what the operations will be as thing some into place, but cards on a fascia??? not on this railroad!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
The type of operating system you choose can make or break you. Car Cards is an inexpensive way to get into operations, but trying to sort it all out when running a train can seem like work. I am a lone wolf operator for a lot of the time, but also have a few friends over too. After I went through Car Cards and Tab on Car systems, I went with a computer program. It was harder to set up, but the computer generates a single sheet manifest that is easy to carry, tells you what cars to set out, and also what cars to pick up. Since it is random, you don't usually see what's coming, and that makes it more interesting for a lone operator. Also, try this link for more info on Operations if you haven't seen it before: http://www.waynes-trains.com/site/Operations/Operations.html
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I model the transition, I feel I get enough time on the computer as it is now and have no interest in bringing a computer into the equasion, other than to keep a log of the equipment and I have generated a schmatic of the layout in MSPaint.
What are you defining as operations and what are you doing with the car cards? What were you expecting and what isn't meeting your expectations?
Your problem may be how you have both the train and the cards organized (or not organized as the case may be.).
What is not holding your interest?
Is it having to put specific cars at specific locations? Is it having to run certain trains at certain times or in a certain order? Is it having to keep up with the car cards? Is it because you can't figure out what to do with the cars based on the information on the waybills when you get to a station?
I have about 120 cars on my layout. It takes me about an hour to turn waybills (about 70 cars), reblock and restage trains (about 50 cars) and apply new waybills to car cards (about 50 cars).
When I run a train, the first thing I do is check the car cards against the actual cars in the train and I order them in the standing order of the train. That takes about 2 min (or less if the yard crew is doing their job). I expect the train to be blocked, in station order if its a local. I have basically 5 stations on my layout. So the cars should be grouped in the train by the stations. All the Montchanins together, all the Coatesvilles together, all the Birdsboros together, all the Readings together. If the train is blocked and the packet of car cards is in standing order, then means that the packet of car cards is automatically blocked.
I run to the first station. I find which cars go to that station. I remove those cards from the packet. I put the rest of the cards in my pocket and don't touch them for the rest of my stay at that station. Since I am only holding a half dozen or less cards, its not a huge ungainly packet. A typical strategy I use is to look at where the cars go for that station and see which are facing point spots and which are trailing point spots. I then switch the set outs into a cut of trailing point cars and a cut of facing point cars. I take the trailing point cars and switch all the trailing point industries. I pull any cars needing to be pulled and spot any cars needing to be spotted. As cars are spotted I put the car card for that car into whatever box is appropriate. As cars are pulled I add that card to the packet in may hand. Then I get the facing point cars, run around them and switch all the facing point industries. I pull any cars needing to be pulled and spot any cars needing to be spotted. As cars are spotted I put the car card for that car into whatever box is appropriate. As cars are pulled I add that card to the packet in may hand. I organize the pulls and put them on my train (either on the head end or rear end depending on the situation.) Then I get out the packet in my pocket and add the cars I picked up to the packet in standing order in the train.
I run to the next station. I find which cars go to that station. I remove those cards from the packet. I put the rest of the cards in my pocket and don't touch them for the rest of my stay at that station. Since I am only holding a half dozen or less cards, its not a huge ungainly packet. A typical strategy I use is to look at where the cars go for that station and see which are facing point spots and which are trailing point spots. I then switch the set outs into a cut of trailing point cars and a cut of facing point cars. I take the trailing point cars and switch all the trailing point industries. I pull any cars needing to be pulled and spot any cars needing to be spotted. As cars are spotted I put the car card for that car into whatever box is appropriate. As cars are pulled I add that card to the packet in may hand. Then I get the facing point cars, run around them and switch all the facing point industries. I pull any cars needing to be pulled and spot any cars needing to be spotted. As cars are spotted I put the car card for that car into whatever box is appropriate. As cars are pulled I add that card to the packet in may hand. I organize the pulls and put them on my train (either on the head end or rear end depending on the situation.) Then I get out the packet in my pocket and add the cars I picked up to the packet in standing order in the train.
Repeat as necessary.
I never tent the car cards (lean them against the cars). One trick have seen done is to have some Plastruct I beams cut in short lengths (1/2"), painted some bright color (yellow or white). When the local gets to a station, they put a marker on top of every pull car. Then they just worry about pulling those cars and don't look at the car cards for the pulls again until they finish their work and put them in the outbound train. After a car is pulled the marker is removed and left at the station.
The only time I handle the whole packet of cards is when I am leaving a station. Other than that, I'm just handling a select few cards that pertain to the current station.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I bet this post grows a lot.
I particularly like ops as I get bored with just running trains for no purpose. But, to have all the ops material really makes sense when you've got a few operators or more. Otherwise, it is a lot like work. Which real RRing is.
Also, we don't have op sessions every week of the year, nor every month. I like to change up what area of the hobby I work in.
Richard
LION is going to make a new mode board for his layout. Him figured out how to do train detection on the cheap together with working signals and automatic protection from rear end collisions (Unintentional-Adds in NYCT speak)
This model board will have location indication, and it will be 11" tall by 72" wide.
Click on it for a bigger display. Click again for a full size presentation.
NP2626So far, I'm finding operations to be like work! I have been a fork lift driver and also driven deliveries to customers at various times in my life and find "Operations" to be very much like that. What I'm saying is: I'm not finding operations to be all that "Fun",
I can see how you might feel that way if your job mirrors train deliveries in another form. I like to look at the puzzle or problem solving aspect of how many moves the train makes and how thing are switched as part of the fun...to others it might seem like work....
NP2626 With the "Car Card" system, it also feel a little like 35% of the job is running trains and 65% is running "Car Cards" and "Waybills", sort of like DC where I ran the track and not the trains!
So far you are only dealing with one aspect of Ops - car routing and switching. The other aspect is train movement on the line. This generally takes more than one operator and a layout designed to make this aspect workable and fun. When the train movement aspect is included, it can shift the ratio of switching time and running time. Switching can also be tailored in a plan to take lots of time or little time depending on the car cards and number of cars in the train.
NP2626If there is a question in this post, it is: How many others have found out that operations did not hold their interest?
On the contrary, I tore out my old layout and built a new one designed to host op's sessions. If you haven't done so already, I might suggest that you attend a few sessions on an established layout with a regular crew to see how you like operations. Some people find they aren't interested. It is a big hobby, lots of room for everyone.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
BroadwayLion LION is going to make a new mode board for his layout. Him figured out how to do train detection on the cheap together with working signals and automatic protection from rear end collisions (Unintentional-Adds in NYCT speak) This model board will have location indication, and it will be 11" tall by 72" wide. Click on it for a bigger display. Click again for a full size presentation.
And the operations that Lion is describing is another completely different layer of operations in addition to the car forwarding layer.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
dehusman So far, I'm finding operations to be like work! I have been a fork lift driver and also driven deliveries to customers at various times in my life and find "Operations" to be very much like that. What I'm saying is: I'm not finding operations to be all that "Fun", so far! With the "Car Card" system, it also feel a little like 35% of the job is running trains and 65% is running "Car Cards" and "Waybills", sort of like DC where I ran the track and not the trains! What are you defining as operations and what are you doing with the car cards? What were you expecting and what isn't meeting your expectations? If there is a question in this post, it is: How many others have found out that operations did not hold their interest? What is not holding your interest?
I thought I explained what I was finding, fairly well.
Probably not defining operation as anything, as I'm too new to it to even pretend I know anything about it.
I've made up car card boxes that are located where the cars will be sorted into trains, where the trains will be stored in staging, where the cars will be stored when the cars have been moved off pike and where the cars will be delivered to businesses and industries along the line.
Simply put, I was expecting operation to be more fun, than I am finding it and I find it similar to work I have done during my working career.
I would join in operation sessions if I could find any locally. My very first thought on learning how to be involved in operations was to find someone (some group) that does operation and see if I could join in. I took this quest to find people involved in operations, as far as joining the OpSIG. I have found no one, so far.
I may be one of those model railroaders who mostly likes to build models and sometimes simply watch my trains travel around my layout.
My findings above, bring me back to an interesting question I have raised before: It seems there are quite a few model railroaders who were/are full scale railroaders. I wonder how they could like to do what they do/did for a job, in their free time? Certainly when I was a tool & die maker, going down to my basement shop to build tools and dies would not be my idea of fun! There must be something about railroading that people find all consuming!
NP2626 I may be one of those model railroaders who mostly likes to build models and sometimes simply watch my trains travel around my layout.
Nothing wrong with that, NP2626.
As trainnut1250 remarked, it is a big hobby, lots of room for everyone.
Some guys like operations, some guys just like to run trains, some guys like to build models.
I grew up intrigued by watching trains run past my house, both steam and diesel, both freight and passenger. I never worked for a railroad, had no idea how real railroads operated, and didn't know anybody else in the hobby.
So, to me, the fun of model railroading is building layouts, landscaping them, running trains, and occasionally trying to act out some basic operations without all of the car card and waybill hoopla.
NP2626 I've made up car card boxes that are located where the cars will be sorted into trains, where the trains will be stored in staging, where the cars will be stored when the cars have been moved off pike and where the cars will be delivered to businesses and industries along the line.
My questions were trying to find out what you are doing with those cards and boxes. I have something similar at my staging yards. When a train pulls into staging I put the packet of cards into the box. When it comes time to restage for the next session I pull the packet out and spend maybe 5 minutes replacing and turning waybills.
Based on my experience it takes about 10 seconds to handle the cards into staging and 5 minutes per train to restage. For me that doesn't seem too arduous so that's why my questions on what you are doing.
In a classification yard the cards for the inbound train or set out is put in a box for the track the cars were placed in. When I switch the track, I arrange the cards in the order of the cars in the track with the card for the car furthest from the switch engine at the top. Look at the first card, see where it goes. Put the car in that track and put the card in the corresponding box for that track. Repeat for the next car and card. Each car and card is handled once.
When the outbound train is built the cards are handled one more time if blocking is required. The outbound train is built and the cards are put into the standing order of the train.
There is a near 1:1 relationship between moving the car and moving the card. It takes way longer to move a car into a track than it does to drop a card into a box. It takes about 1-2 minutes to arrange cards in standing order, less if you put the cards into the box carefully.
Since my experience doesn't involve that much time handling the cards, I was curious what you were doing that caused you to spend twice as much time sorting cards as you do actually moving them.
Surprise! You are simulating a job, so it ends up looking more like a job than a golf game. 8-)
While I do have operations to an extent, I also get much or even most enjoyment out of modeling. To be honest, I think that "operations" has been oversold as the be all and end all goal of building a model railroad. Perhaps as some have suggested if the railroad were big enough to always be building or rebuilding something and to have a decent sized group of friends operating together, then it may be a target that keeps someone modeling. But few of us have the size and time to build that monster layout, and few are also in a location where they can attract a consistent crew.
Even many of the biggest names in operations have torn down and rebuilt once their railroads reached that theoretical nirvana of being complete with nothing left to do but operate. Please understand I'm not arguing against their choice as some have misinterpreted in the past, but see that as additional evidence that operations along is not a goal. Rather, a balance between all aspects of buiding, operations, structures, equipment, etc, as best fits our individual desires, is the goal of model railroading.
When I start operations I intend on using Jim Hedigers wheel reports. If you are unfamiliar with this here is a link to a description. It seems to be much easier to use and quicker to implement.
Jason
Modeling the Fort Worth & Denver of the early 1970's in N scale
Gidday, Operations was not what got me into the hobby, but after my first operating session, I was sold.
"Hobby n an occupation that a person does for pleasure, not as his main business." Oxford Concise Dictionary.
The great thing I enjoy about Model Railroading is the amount of different facets that it consists of, and if you don't find one of those facets pleasurable, and don't do it, then I don't see that making you less of a model railroader than anyone else. Fun is the key ingredient.
NP2626 My findings above, bring me back to an interesting question I have raised before: It seems there are quite a few model railroaders who were/are full scale railroaders. I wonder how they could like to do what they do/did for a job, in their free time? Certainly when I was a tool & die maker, going down to my basement shop to build tools and dies would not be my idea of fun! There must be something about railroading that people find all consuming!
I don't think that 1.1 railroaders having model railroading as their hobby is peculiar to their occupation. As a teen I was mad keen on building kit set model aeroplanes, had a largish collection of 1/72 aircraft, but having now worked in aviation for the past 31 years I haven't built one for many years. That said many of my work colleagues past and present, still have aviation based hobbies, from building models, flying and non flying, to the full sized item. I find as a self employed engineer that much of my time is consumed by my work,being on call 24/7, keeping abreast of ever changing aviation rules, exams to keep myself clever is enough for me, building a freight car kit is great relaxation.
While definitely not knocking the skills required to be a tool and die maker, it strikes me as not having the same "romance" as railroads or aviation, though you would think that those of us engaged particularly at the sharp end of those respective fields should know better!!
Just my two bobs worth.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
NP2626I may be one of those model railroaders who mostly likes to build models and sometimes simply watch my trains travel around my layout.
Nothing wrong with that. I like switching cars over watching trains run mindless loops..Some want nothing less then 110% correct cars and locomotives.Some want to emulate prototypical operation using fast clocks and time tables..Some likes weathering cars.
My point?
Find what pleases and relaxes you and enjoy that facet of the hobby..After all its your hobby.
I pretty much thought that what I was stating was: My short endeavor into operations was showing me that "operations" may not be what I find interesting; or, fun!
However, I also understand that doing operations as a Lone Wolf, would lack an important element of making "operations" fun and that is the comradery of doing it as group. To that end, I have been pursuing locating a group, nearby. This thread is a spin-off of a currently popular thread on Lone Wolf Modelers - Why or Why not?, from a slightly different perspective.
Brakie's point: "Find what pleases and relaxes you and enjoy that facet of the hobby..After all it is your hobby", is right on and something everyone determines shortly after becoming involved in an activity/hobby. I doubt I would have continued building my layout for 25 years, had I found the process to be no fun!
I'm not ready to give up on operations at this point. In fact thinking about operations and doing them has shown me where I can make improvements in my layout and am making some changes and adding some things, I have overlooked.
NP2626 It seems there are quite a few model railroaders who were/are full scale railroaders. I wonder how they could like to do what they do/did for a job, in their free time? There must be something about railroading that people find all consuming!
It seems there are quite a few model railroaders who were/are full scale railroaders. I wonder how they could like to do what they do/did for a job, in their free time? There must be something about railroading that people find all consuming!
dehusmanI find the whole "Lance Mindheim" approach to switching etc. extremely tedious and boring. It emphasizes all the time consuming aspects of railroading that have minimal appeal for me. Now for the non-railroader they are probably amazingly fascinating (must be since that type of operation gets a lot of buzz on the forums).
I must be a exception to the rule(if any applies here)..I'm a former brakeman that loves switching since to me that was real railroading.
My last few months of railroading was in the road pool and I hated riding from Russell to Queensgate with nothing to do but,look over the train or glance at barges on the Ohio River or glance at a nice looking lady.If I was lucky we might drop some cars off at Maysville.
Right now my operations are sorta informal. My peddler freight sets out with some cars. It services every siding and sput, picking up cars on the siding and setting out a few cars that I pick by eye. I have a single yard. Yard operations amount to pulling cars into a single train to run as a peddler freight. Cars are selected by eye. Or breaking up the returning peddler freight onto separate tracks.
It would be more interesting if the yard engineer and the peddler freight engineer had switch lists. The yard switch list would say "make up a train with these cars in it." and the peddler freight switch list would say " drop these cars on this siding and those cars on that siding" I could write a program to crank out switchlists, no problem. Make up a list of all my cars, and another of all my sidings, and a little random number work and start printing. With a few more lines of code the switch lists could be printed first in distination order, and second in car order. Makes it easy to answer two questions. first being what cars go on this siding, second being what siding does this here car go on now.
Couple of problems. I have many more cars than will fit on the layout. Run a switch list off and a lot of cars would be on the shelf, not on the layout. But the computer doesn't know that and so the off layout cars get included in the switch list. Same problem with cars out on sidings.
Soppose we tell the engineers to just ignore any cars on the switch lists and not on the tracks? We let the yard engineer start things off by making up a peddler freight. Then the engineer of the peddler has a train that matches his switch list, more or less. He spots the cars that are in the train and takes all the cars on sidings back to the yard.
It's a little crude, but it avoids the "setup" work we used to do before operations sessions.
What do you all think?
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I think we need to get back to my original intent and question, which was: After trying out operations, how many folks find that operations do not hold your interest?
If you want to talk about how you've set-up operations and operate your railroad, please start your own thread! Not to slight anyone; or, cause friction; but, I think this is only fair!
I went from a 16’x 14’ L shaped layout with two main lines and numerous switching opportunities to a 13’x 18” switching layout when we downsized to a new home.
I’m trying to learn prototypical operations, but honestly I’m finding the switching layout somewhat boring, so far anyway. I have seven industries and I picked those with care so that I would be able to use at least two types of cars for each one with some having four or more. I use a switching list to move cars and mix it up pretty well (East bound, West bound, using the local industrial switcher to do the switching, etc. I guess because of its small size I feel somewhat lost when everything is completed and the train has no place to go. The layout isn’t large enough to support a yard. So I have a two track staging area. So my staging area is all I have and the 0-5-0 leaves a little to be desired for a yard switcher.
Maybe as time goes on and I learn a little more I’ll realize more opportunities then I’m seeing now. Or the War Department / Finance Minister will allot me more room in the spare bedroom so I can expand the layout. I feel that a large part is the small size and the limitations that puts on operations.
But as many have said if you don’t enjoy what you’re doing move on to another aspect of the hobby, there is a world of different things to do in the MR world. That’s what I will probably do if the switching layout doesn’t pan out. Fortunately I enjoy all aspects of MR (except for ballasting which I truly hate) so I can move on.
PV Rich
NP2626So far, I'm finding operations to be like work! I have been a fork lift driver and also driven deliveries to customers at various times in my life and find "Operations" to be very much like that. What I'm saying is: I'm not finding operations to be all that "Fun", so far! With the "Car Card" system, it also feel a little like 35% of the job is running trains and 65% is running "Car Cards" and "Waybills", sort of like DC where I ran the track and not the trains!
The closer one wants to get to prototypical operations the more paperwork there is going to be.
I find the car card system to be the 2nd least paperwork of all the schemes I've operated on. The least paperwork is the old tab system. Instead of cards each car has a color coded tab that indicates its destination town. In the color field there is a letter or number indicating the industry or siding where it is going. After the the car is spotted the tab is flipped which gives it the next destination. Super easy to understand and use. The big catch is that suddenly all the trains are rolling around with all these junky looking tabs all over them. Sort of ruins the effect of having a super detailed and prototypically weathered fleet.