For anyone tired of running in circles, or contemplating operations for their Model Railroads, I have put up a new Web Page with a couple of PDF links to a couple of basic articles describing Operations and what is needed. This was prompted by the series of discussions on Operations a couple of weeks ago.
http://www.waynes-trains.com/site/Operations/Operations.html
I lean toward computer generated manifests, but to be fair I also included Car Cards as a means for switching cars.
This is not a detailed How-To, but a basic explanation of what Ops are and how to get started.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Elmer,
Just had a chance to scan through. Your guides will be helpful for people wanting to set up operations on their layout by relating what its like to different aspects of operations to understand how to implement and begin having some fun.
I suggest making the small pdf icon links somewhat larger or making the title a hot link on your webpage (says he who hasn't cracked open Dreamweaver in years ) so people can find them easier down at the bottom of the page.
We could use your thread here, in part, to compile links to ops-related threads. Here's a link back to my illustrated bootstrap thread to using simple car card ops:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/214270.aspx
No problem using the pics.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Elmer,Your tutorial is one of the best I read in some time..Kudos sir...
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Is it incongruous to use a computer to generate information for a transition era layout?
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
JMRI is a fine program. I"ve played with it a while and you can't beat it for the price. If somebody wants a list system that would be my recommendation. Its fairly easy to set up and for the average modeler will get them up and running in a short time with minimal investment. And for local industry switching, which is what most model railroads are focused on, JMRI produces a very nice switch list that looks very prototypical.
But don't kid yourself that the logic behind is prototypical. The concepts on the way it operates is very much model railroad think. The naming conventions for some of the tracks (interchange, yard) has no relationship to the prototype. Assigning operations to specific tracks is pure model railroad. Billing cars based on train or track capacity is purely model railroad.
If you want to move cars more or less 100% prototypically for the pre-computer age, use CC&WB with handwritten switch lists. That's exactly how the railroads ran for over 100 years. That approach is too involved for many modelers (I don't do that myself, but know several modelers that do). So list systems like JMRI are a good compromise for many people.
It all depends on what your focus is and how you approach it. Yes JMRI is a train based system. But from my standpoint, CC&WB allows more prototypical train operations than JMRI. The limitation is that CC&WB is purely a car forwarding system and the modeler has to overlay schedules or a transportation plan on top of the CC&WB to model the train portion of the operations. In JMRI you more lor less have to start with the trainsportation plan and you add the car forwarding later. Once again, different folks, different strokes. For what I want to do, JMRI would be more difficult to use than CC&WB. For somebody else JMRI would be just right. If you have a industry switching layout with minimal yard operations, JMRI could be perfect.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
What I like about CC&WB is can be as complex as you want it or as simple as you want.
I only use CC&WB for locals on my few loop layouts and not for regular train make up..Of course on my ISLs its simpliest form of CC&WB operation.
I don't think I would be interested in using JMRI since I dummied down Doug Smith's CC&WB system the he wrote about in 61 or 62..
The bread and butter of most computer switch list programs is industry switch lists. They have varying degrees of issues with yards and through freight operations, depending on how the program is set up and and how the user uses the program.
I have tried a couple switch list programs. I bought one about 20+ years ago that was written in Basic (running on my 386-SX computer on DOS 3.0, feel the power!). I played with the Beta version of another one about 8-10 years ago. After messing with it on and off for 2 years I finally got it to print one switch list with 3 cars on it. I only know one person that is successfully using it and it required a huge amount of intervention by the developer to get it to run.
I have never tried with Rail-Op, Ship-It or Pro Trak.
With JMRI, once I got my head around the differences in terminology and understood how sensitive it is to track and train lengths, I was able to get a functional list system that generated lists for about 75-80% of my existing CC&WB operations. It still had some tweaking to get the load-empty operations right and I never spent the time to get the detailed shipments functionality working. While I was very happy with the ease I got JMRI up and running, and generating lists, I decided to stick with CC&WB, so didn't invest any more time in it.
There are also two other whole families of operations methods that weren't touched on.
The "tag on car" methods go back at least as far, if not before CC&WB. Basically a coded tag, maker, or chip is placed on or on top of the cars, that indicate the car's destination. The code can be any combination of colors shapes, stripes letters and numbers, depending on the system being used. Many of these systems fell out of favor when people became more concerned with the prototypical accuracy of the cars and didn't want a marker on top of their car. Since this system doesn't really tie into a specific car, this system is very strong for situations where the roster of cars is very variable, such as clubs or modular set ups.
Another variation is a variation on a list system, but just deals with car types and doesn't specify individual car numbers. For each station, track or industry it lists how many of each type of car to pick up or set out. The list might say that at Patterson Paper, set out one boxcar and pick up one hopper and one boxcar. It is left up to the operator to choose which car to set up and which to pick up if their are multiple cars on hand. This can be simplified down to just saying how many cars to pick up and how many cars to set out at each station, the choice of which is up to the operator. Once again these systems are good for clubs or modular situations where the mix of cars and not the individual car numbers are important.
Thank you all for your comments.
My start in operations was back in the late 1980's with Car Cards. I felt that carrying the cards around was a hassle. (This is what I learned Ops on, so I'm not knocking the system, just saying it wasn't right for me.) So I changed to a Tab-On-Car system very similar to what John Allen used, except instead of thumb tacks, I used Plastruct ' I ' beam material cut up in short lengths and color coded for the cars, towns, and industries; loaded or empty. I used that system for a long time. Then when I changed scales, switched to DCC, and computer programs for operations became available, I changed to Rail Op. To me, and maybe not to everyone, the advantage of a computer based program is that if you operate alone (and that is what I did for a long time), you get a more random switch list. So if you are operating alone, you don't see what is coming, or you don't set up the trains the way you want. The computer tells you what to do.
And again, the point of the web page was to try and show what MRR Operations are, how to get started, and not necessarily push one operating system over another. It also looks like I should go back and make a change or two and fit in the Tab-On-Car system.
I did a Plastruct I Beam on car system for a modular club a couple decades ago.
gandydancer19 This is not a detailed How-To, but a basic explanation of what Ops are and how to get started.
Well done indeed! A lot of thought went into these 2 PDFs "cutting through all the mustard" so to speak.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956