Strange power pack problem???

[jerryl]

JeremyB

Hi Guys,

Just another question that is along the same lines.

I use 18 gauge wire from my power pack to the layout is this good enough or should I use something bigger like 16 gauge? I don't use feeders as I only have a small switching layout.

Thanks again

Jeremy

This heavy gauge wire feeder is very often overkill.  We are only talking 14 or so volts & not 120 volts. When I completed my "G" gauge RR in the yard (200plus feet) I connected a small HO power pack & ran 2  locos with 2  20 gauge wires connected to the track with no problems. I have a more substantial power pack with 18 gauge feeders now.

[JeremyB]

Cheers, would you know what size star washer I might need?

That's what I pretty much did too, tighten and give a 1/4 turn.

Great tip on the washer also, I never would have thought of that .

[bogp40]

JeremyB

Thanks Jeff. I just made sure it was tight enough to sit nice and snug without cranking down on it.

You probably won't have issue w/ this again, the terminals just weren't tight enough. No need to overdo it , snug and 1/4 turn. If you do ever have contact problems and don't want to "over tighten", use a star washer to help w/ contact on the flat spade.

[JeremyB]

Thanks Jeff. I just made sure it was tight enough to sit nice and snug without cranking down on it.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

JeremyB

I made sure that the terminal screws on my MRC Tech 4 were screwed down nice and tight to avoid this problem again. But I was wondering can I tighten the screws down too much? I dont know If I can cause any damage to my pack by making them too tight?

You can strip the screw, strip the screw hole or snap the screw off in the hole.

[JeremyB]

Another question guys.

I made sure that the terminal screws on my MRC Tech 4 were screwed down nice and tight to avoid this problem again. But I was wondering can I tighten the screws down too much? I dont know If I can cause any damage to my pack by making them too tight?

Thanks again

[JeremyB]

Cheers.

The corrosion was just on the spade connectors that connect to the power pack. I cleaned them up and there good again. It was just almost a fine film on them that came off easy.

[bogp40]

JeremyB

Hi Guys,

Just another question that is along the same lines.

I use 18 gauge wire from my power pack to the layout is this good enough or should I use something bigger like 16 gauge? I don't use feeders as I only have a small switching layout.

Thanks again

Jeremy

As long as you don't experience any voltage drop further down the rails from the feeders, you should be fine. With the corrosion that you experience it may be a good idea to no solely rely on rail joiners to carry the power, a couple feeders placed throughout the layout may improve overall performance. If you do this then use the heavier wire for the buss.

[JeremyB]

Hi Guys,

Just another question that is along the same lines.

I use 18 gauge wire from my power pack to the layout is this good enough or should I use something bigger like 16 gauge? I don't use feeders as I only have a small switching layout.

Thanks again

Jeremy

[JeremyB]

Yeah I think they may be aluminum Lion, and the screws on the pack are chrome plated. Yeah Jim I I will have to work on soldering without using flux.

I got the corrosion cleaned off now and hopefully I will be back in business

[Soo Line fan]

dstarr

Rosin flux is not quite as corrosive as plain acid flux, but it will corrode stuff after a year or so. 

David is correct.

Try to learn to solder without flux.  A good hot iron is all you really need for these type of terminals.

[BroadwayLion]

Different metals set up a galvanic action. Does the power pack have chrome plated screws or are they steel, brass, copper or aluminininimimum. The wire is copper, but what are the spades made of. Are they aluminininminimum?

ROAR

[JeremyB]

the job I'm at now is okay but I got a call from that one place I applied to and they want me to start Thursday. I'm really excited as they pay is awesome and the one I'm at now inst,lol

Great benefits and vacation time, so Im pretty excited to start Thursday.

Thanks for the tips on what to keep corrosion away. There nice and polished now.

[last mountain & eastern hogger]

Jeremy,

YUP !!!     oxidation (corrosion)  If you have high humidity in your train room ??  That would do it....

Give the connectors a little shot of 2-26 or 3in 1 oil or WD40. That will do the trick to keep the moisture away from them.

By the way Guy,  How is the new job working out ???

Johnboy out

[JeremyB]

dstarr

Once you have polished off the green corrosion, the metal is as good as it ever was, no need to change them.

Cheers David, the metal is nice and shiny now. Funny how I thought it was just dirty track and it turns out it was that. Its nice to have engines that actually move now

[JeremyB]

Actually Chuck I didn't have them very tight to think of it. I used rosin core solder to hold them after I clamped them in the connectors so I don't think that would be it. Also the wire was copper but I think the spade connectors were steel???

My basement can be somewhat damp so maybe it was a combination of

- loose screws

- copper wire and steel spade connectors

- damp basement?? my basement humidity is around 35% so I don't know if that would be it?

[dstarr]

JeremyB

Hi Guys

Lately I have noticed some problems with engines not wanting to move when I open the throttle. At first I assumed it was probably the usual, dirty wheels and dirty track or a combo of the two. I gave my track a good cleaning and gave the wheels a good cleaning but still the problem persisted.

Today I had the problem again and finally gave the power pack a look over and the two wires that go to the layout and that's when I saw the problem.

I use spade connectors on the end of the wires that connect to the power pack terminal screws ( I have a tech 4 MRC pack ) and there was a thin green film covering the spade connectors? I rubbed them clean on a piece of emery cloth and re attach them and tried to run a engine. It worked great, no stuttering or problems starting. What I'm wondering is what was the green film? was it a oxidation of some sort? I know it wouldn't be a problem with flux or solder as I use rosin flux and rosin solder. maybe it was the metal on the spade connectors? I don't know If I should just put some new ones on? there cleaned off nicely now and working great.

Any ideas guys

Jeremy

   Green is the color of copper oxide.  Copper roofs, the Statue of Liberty and copper wire turns green when exposed to the weather.  Rosin flux is not quite as corrosive as plain acid flux, but it will corrode stuff after a year or so.  You want to remove as much flux as you can after soldering.  It's not easy, the only thing that actually dissolves rosin is Freon, which we ain't supposed to use for flux removal 'cause it destroys the ozone layer and will give us all killer sun burns.  I use a tooth brush and alcohol and rags to wipe off as much as possible.   Once you have polished off the green corrosion, the metal is as good as it ever was, no need to change them.

[JeremyB]

The wire is copper but I dont think the spade connectors are?

[tomikawaTT]

Do you have a humid layout environment?  What you described sounds like galvanic corrosion, which takes place when two dis-similar metals are in contact in the presence of water, either liquid or vapor.

Usually, galvanic corrosion severe enough to cause contact problems is related to:

• Undertorqued connections.  Were the screws tight?
• Use of acid core solder when soldering.  Were the wires soldered to the spades?  If so, with what?

 

To avoid future problems:

 

• If acid core solder was used, dip the wire ends in a baking soda solution, then rinse thoroughly with distilled water and blow dry.
• Thoroughly clean every speck of corrosion and corrosion products from the spades and screws.
• Reconnect, making the screws tight.
• Coat the connection (screws, spades and some of the wire insulation) with liquid insulator.

 

The last step, especially, will keep water vapor out of the connection, which should then last for the ages.

 

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with bulletproof electricals)

[joe323]

I suppose if the connectors are copper then the green film could be copper oxide which is green.  Think Statue of Liberty which is green from the copper being exposed.

[JeremyB]

Hi Guys

Lately I have noticed some problems with engines not wanting to move when I open the throttle. At first I assumed it was probably the usual, dirty wheels and dirty track or a combo of the two. I gave my track a good cleaning and gave the wheels a good cleaning but still the problem persisted.

Today I had the problem again and finally gave the power pack a look over and the two wires that go to the layout and that's when I saw the problem.

I use spade connectors on the end of the wires that connect to the power pack terminal screws ( I have a tech 4 MRC pack ) and there was a thin green film covering the spade connectors? I rubbed them clean on a piece of emery cloth and re attach them and tried to run a engine. It worked great, no stuttering or problems starting. What I'm wondering is what was the green film? was it a oxidation of some sort? I know it wouldn't be a problem with flux or solder as I use rosin flux and rosin solder. maybe it was the metal on the spade connectors? I don't know If I should just put some new ones on? there cleaned off nicely now and working great.

Any ideas guys

Jeremy