I am finding myself on more "advanced order" lists than I can believe. Very seldom that I can just walk into the hobby shop and find something on the shelf to buy except for parts and misc. stuff. I admit to having more HO than I can ever run now, but I would still like some of the new stuff coming out, but give me a break. Advance lists for 10 months out? I could be dead or in jail or starting a new hobby 10 months from now. I have been in HO since early 1960's and I have always enjoyed being in HO. Now I am fed up with the new policies these manufacturers are using, (wait, strike that "manufacturers" and call them importers instead. That is more realistic.
I am not pre ordering anything now, new policy. I will pay for whatever I have already advanced ordered since I was dumb enough to do so, but I am not going to keep buying new stuff that I can't get in the local hobbyshop, which also seems to be drying up.
Baah Humbug!!!!
Bob
doctorwayne Hmmm. Am I the only one who would miss Accurail, Bowser, and Tichy? Wayne
Hmmm. Am I the only one who would miss Accurail, Bowser, and Tichy?
Wayne
I would as I only intend to buy American made now, and I desperately need C&O coal hoppers!
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I would miss Kato. Their N scale stuff is outstanding. But I don't think they'll be going anywhere anytime soon...
High prices for an MTH HO box car? Where on earth do you shop? MBK has them cheap!
All my recent MTH purchases (6 IC orange boxcars and a Reading green/yellow mill gon) cost 40 percent less than I've been paying (actual purchase price--forget about MSRP) for other more highly detailed cars--and the MTH ones came with factory installed Kadee #158 scale head whisker couplers and free rolling metal wheelsets that the other guys' much more highly priced rolling stock did not have.
Respectfully submitted--
John
ATLANTIC CENTRAL John, First off, 95% of the "serious modelers" I know don't even have an account on this or any other forum. Internet forum activity likely only represents 5% of the modelers of all "types". So what is discussed on here is by no means representative of anything other than views or knowledge of the individuals who post it.
John,
First off, 95% of the "serious modelers" I know don't even have an account on this or any other forum. Internet forum activity likely only represents 5% of the modelers of all "types". So what is discussed on here is by no means representative of anything other than views or knowledge of the individuals who post it.
Thank you--that is pretty much exactly what I said or was trying to say--you just proved my point!!!!
The point being that a highly vocal but small group oftentimes seems to think their opinion somehow matters more than the rest who aren't online or don't take the time to respond because their needs are generally speaking being met. If they were that upset, maybe we'd hear from them--but we don't.
The frequent posters are attempting to be the "squeaky wheel" that gets the most grease.
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
Every once in a while I think about what a Professor once pointed out to our class about the word "expert". "Ex" means past, and "pert " is a drip. Also had a High School teacher that put the word "assume" on the board and broke it down to this: to assume makes an ass out of u and me.
What's my point? Unless there is proof, like an actual announcement from the supplier/manufacturer, rumors and speculation do no good.
It would be a bad thing for all of us if anybody went "belly up". I might like products from company a more than company b, other folks may like company b over a. But if either a or b go out of business, that hurts us all.
No offense or disrespect intended.
Dave H,
MTH may well be doing fine, and that's OK with me. I just know that all they have sold me so far is one box car, and I was not impressed enough to pay their higher prices for any more, or anything else. Most of the modelers I know personally feel the same way. That combined with their CHOICE to not build locos that will run on my control system make them a non starter for me.
Rich,
It is not about prototype accuracy at all, it is about choices between N&W J's or GS-4's vs Consolidations, switchers and Mikados. Creating a layout that portrays a steam railroad with reasonable plausibility requires more of the second group and less of the first group.
To all,
So between the locos they choose to make, and the lack of compatibility with my control system, and the higher prices do to their inclusion of control systems and features I don't want or need, both MTH and BLI are low on my interest list.
This combined with a lack of detail in favor of durability or simply to spend the money on sound and control leaves me out. Just compare the diaphragms on a BLI E unit to ones on a Proto E unit - no contest. And my Proto E units couple with those diaphragms touching and working - just one example in a long list.
And, the pricing/marketing policies of BLI leave a bad taste so when I do buy that stuff, it is only at closeout prices since they have made that their "mode of operation".
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL So, getting back to the original theme, I would not miss MTH one bit, and BLI would only be a minor loss. Yeah, I wouldn't miss MTH either and that is simply because I don't own anything MTH. But, as long as I run steamers, BLI would be missed, at least by me. I own 6 BLI steamers, each a different wheel configuration. I love them all. Rich Rich, if you have been reading the other active threads in the last few days, think about my comments in the steam vs diesel thread - about the size of steam locos vs the size of curves and turnouts as it relates to running qualities and general overall performance? Now look at the total steam offerings of BLI during their relatively brief history in this business - the smallest loco they have ever offered is a Mikado or a Pacific - many of their offerings are simply not practical unless you have a big layout with big curves. Now look at Bachmanns offerings - a wide range of sizes and types across the whole of the steam era - much more practical in most cases for many modelers. Same with Proto2000, even if it is a short list.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL So, getting back to the original theme, I would not miss MTH one bit, and BLI would only be a minor loss. Yeah, I wouldn't miss MTH either and that is simply because I don't own anything MTH. But, as long as I run steamers, BLI would be missed, at least by me. I own 6 BLI steamers, each a different wheel configuration. I love them all. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So, getting back to the original theme, I would not miss MTH one bit, and BLI would only be a minor loss.
So, getting back to the original theme, I would not miss MTH one bit, and BLI would only be a minor loss.
Yeah, I wouldn't miss MTH either and that is simply because I don't own anything MTH.
But, as long as I run steamers, BLI would be missed, at least by me.
I own 6 BLI steamers, each a different wheel configuration. I love them all.
Rich
Rich, if you have been reading the other active threads in the last few days, think about my comments in the steam vs diesel thread - about the size of steam locos vs the size of curves and turnouts as it relates to running qualities and general overall performance?
Now look at the total steam offerings of BLI during their relatively brief history in this business - the smallest loco they have ever offered is a Mikado or a Pacific - many of their offerings are simply not practical unless you have a big layout with big curves.
Now look at Bachmanns offerings - a wide range of sizes and types across the whole of the steam era - much more practical in most cases for many modelers. Same with Proto2000, even if it is a short list.
Sheldon, recall what I said, "But, as long as I run steamers, BLI would be missed, at least by me".
At least by me. Those are the controlling words.
Since the subject of the thread is which manufacturers would be missed, BLI would be on my short list.
UP 4-12-2 made an excellent point about steam loco manufacturers trying to appeal to the 93%.
I am in the 93%, you are in the other 7%. That's fine, all well and good, no argument with that.
I care about a good looing, great performing, steam engine with the required road name. BLI gives me that. That is all I need.
As you know, I also have some Bachmann locos, and Bachmann is also on my short list. I would hate to see them fail as well.
Regarding the steam vs. diesel thread, I have read it, contributed to it, and followed it. But the subject of that thread is performance, not prototypicality.
Neither thread is about prototypicality, at least neither started out that way. My sense is that 7% hate BLI and want it to go away, while the other 93% love BLI and want it to stay, it will stay.
Alton Junction
ATLANTIC CENTRAL First off, Chinese manufacturers come and go like pop stars, that does not mean that a US manufacturer will not be able to find a new factory to make their products. Second, if I had to pick a US company in this business that might be in trouble, I can only think of two: MTH and Broadway Limited.
First off, Chinese manufacturers come and go like pop stars, that does not mean that a US manufacturer will not be able to find a new factory to make their products.
Second, if I had to pick a US company in this business that might be in trouble, I can only think of two:
MTH and Broadway Limited.
Dream on Sheldon. MTH isn't going anywhere. I don't get to see the books, but I do talk to people who do and whom I trust. The economy has been tough for everybody since 2009, but MTH has faired well overall. G-gauge and US prototype O is in a slump, but European O, all HO, and even Pre-war style Standard Gauge have been strong.
MTH's business model is rather similar to Atlas'. When times get tight they cut costs and get very choosy about what products they make to remain cash positive. They keep cash on hand so they can buy tooling when it becomes available. It's not really surprising since both Atlas and MTH are private businesses run by the people who own them. In recent years Atlas has purchased tooling from several manufacturers that have left part of the market or gone out of business. They have purchased the Intermountain O scale tooling, Branchline's HO tools, and purchased the rights to several K-Line O scale tools. MTH started in business by purchasing the Williams standard gauge tooling and announced late last year that they had acquired the S-Helper S-scale tooling. It's a business model that has stood the test of time and has again gained respect since the housing bubble burst. If only Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers had had similar ideas about how to run a business more people might be able to afford more model trains.
There is a major problem with the assumption of some on this and other forums--including the Atlas Rescue Forum--which I recently gave up on.
That assumption, mentioned in at least one of the above posts, is that a manufacturer (in this case MTH and/or BLI depending upon one's point of view) cannot survive in the long run without appealing to "the serious model railroader" (whatever that really means, I'm sure we can all debate).
There's a major flaw with that premise:
Most internet train forums I've ever been to have a relatively small cast of regular (perhaps high post count) characters, who evidently have a lot of time to critique everything that comes out to the utmost degree of perfection. At least a few of those characters don't even have a functioning layout much less a circle of Kato track on a rug--so their perspective of what actually might hold up in real service on a layout can sometimes be...lacking.
The "serious model railroader" premise assumes that "serious model railroaders" somehow are more informed and more in tune with what the marketplace actually wants than the manufacturers are.
At least one HO manufacturer has told me personally--several times through the years now--that they consider this to be baloney--just utterly wrong. They emphatically state that they build their products to satisfy the other "90%" or "93%" or so who aren't frequenting the internet forums, and not the 1% or 2% who critique their product to the nth degree, and often (in their opinion) don't actually buy the product anyway.
This does not mean that they won't listen when someone brings up an issue in a new model that is "fixable"--that is far from the case. However, it does mean that at least some of the manufacturers disregard comments made on train forums.
If you really want the manufacturers to listen, it is suggested that you post your specific issues with their products directly on their Facebook or Twitter page, or perhaps even give them an actual courteous telephone call.
I can say for a fact that at least some of the manufactuers are so utterly busy trying to run their business that they don't have time--even if they wanted to (which some clearly do not)--to actively participate in internet forums beyond their own Facebook or Twitter pages--even if those are up to date--lol. That doesn't mean they won't make an occasional new product announcement here or there.
The bottom line (for me here) is this: Whether the "serious model railroaders" love or hate MTH (or some others who have spoken to me about this issue) they are going to do just fine, because they are trying to sell to the other 90% of the folks who aren't so rabid about trains as to spend much time on Internet forums. It is a gross error to assume that the opinions of a few folks matter more than the less vocal majority who is voting with their dollars.
For every "MTH horror story" I could provide a personal Athearn horror story about something they messed up--yet I still keep giving them chances because every so often Athearn does hit a home run and their Genesis quality is very much improved as of late. Perhaps switching manufacturers (and no longer being beholding to others) has been a huge blessing in disguise, and I sincerely wish Athearn well.
I also would miss BLI and MTH if they left HO--only BLI is providing some really nice E units in paint schemes my son has to have and has been waiting for for some years now. If they gave up, then my son wouldn't get the ACL E Unit he wants in a truly fine model.
*eyes glazing over* topic has veered off. If someone finds out what is really going on, start a new topic please!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
duckdogger I agree with most of what Sheldon has said. The pressures on all facets of our hobby are under stress. From my perspective of the model railroad retail shop, it is ferocious. But I have not seen vultures circling any of the major suppliers, nor have we been privy to any insider information. And Sheldon, I always presumed the MTH C&O Berkshire was really a post-merger Pere Marquette unit re-lettered C&O. Certainly, I would have preferred a true Lima built version where the sand dome was in front of the sand dome, lowered headlight, etc. and having roller bearings.
I agree with most of what Sheldon has said. The pressures on all facets of our hobby are under stress. From my perspective of the model railroad retail shop, it is ferocious. But I have not seen vultures circling any of the major suppliers, nor have we been privy to any insider information.
And Sheldon, I always presumed the MTH C&O Berkshire was really a post-merger Pere Marquette unit re-lettered C&O. Certainly, I would have preferred a true Lima built version where the sand dome was in front of the sand dome, lowered headlight, etc. and having roller bearings.
Well that would be fine but they numbered it as a C&O delivered unit, not one of the PM N class that was later painted C&O.
MTH decided on a cast boiler and only made one version - NKP.
And they also painted them in Erie, RF&P and W&LE - not even close - they might as well have thrown in NYC and B&A as well.
The PM Berks were built in three classes, the last of which had the C&O style sand dome - but still had the smaller tenders.
With the modular approach Bachmann used, they should have done the Virginian version as well. It had the steam dome "burried" in the sand sand dome.
THe MTH loco also suffers from some oversized detail, like the running boards that are WAY thick - making it toy like in my view.
I have some BLI/PCM - 2 Reading T-1 4-8-4's, 2 USRA Heavy 2-8-2's and a N&W Class A. But to tell the truth, most of the rest of their offerings would never interest me. I don't model the PRR, I don't want anything as big as a 2-10-4 in C&O (which I do model), I don't collect "famous monsters" for a display case.
So other than maybe a Pacific or two, or another Class A, or maybe even a Y6b if they ever reissued them in DC, they would have to start making some more "ordinary", "work a day" kinds of locos that would make practical and believable additions to my roster - not the rare and "special" stuff many of their pieces have been up to now. A really good modern 10 wheeler - like those used on the NYC or B&O - would be real nice.
When I buy locos for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, I make choices based on protolance theory of building a believable roster - and I usually buy two or more of every loco to give that "fleet" look that a real railroad has.
Example - In ATLANTIC CENTRAL colors I have:
8 USRA Heavy Mountains
5 LIMA Heavy Mikados
2 USRA Heavy Mikados
6 Baldwin 2-8-0's
2 USRA 2-6-6-2's
2 Baldwin 4-6-0's
2 USRA 2-8-8-2's
1 "home built" 2-6-6-4
2 "home built" 4-8-4's
2 USRA 0-8-0's
4 USRA Light Pacific's
I will leave you to figure out the model brand of each........
Even with my bad experience with the Mikados I don't have anything against BLI in the quality department.
My problems are one, like Tom with Bachmann, they don't make much I want, and second they expect me to pay for DCC and sound (all my current BLI was bought when they offered stealth or Blue Line, or was had at a "closeout" price).
And while we are on the topic of BLI, the only BLI diesel that I ever thought had detail as good as Proto2000 was the PCM F3 - the tooling that MTH now has - so with the exception of a set of those I bought "stealth", I have zero interest in BLI diesels.
richhotrain tstage Can I get off of moderation now, Rich? Tom Done. Now behave yourself. Rich
tstage Can I get off of moderation now, Rich? Tom
Can I get off of moderation now, Rich?
Tom
Done.
Now behave yourself.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
The only MTH item that I've bought/I have so far I've been very happy with - i.e. their '40 20th Century Limited passenger cars. With the hopes that MTH will release additional cars down the road at some point, I don't desire to see their demise.
To be honest - even if I don't like or use a particular manufacturer's product, I would hate to see them go out of business because others have benefited or derived pleasure from their product.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have exactly one MTH loco. And I will NEVER buy another, even though I really want the Reading Heritage SD70ACe, despite it being 60 years too new for my era.
At the Greenberg show the other week I was ready to throw my FA's across the room. Their idiotic couplers won;t stay coupled, despite NOT pressing the uncouple functions - that I can fix by putting kadees on there. But worse was how the sound would constantly stop. It started out when I took them out of my carry bag, for the first time since last July's show - the A unit worked fine, motion and all sounds. The B unit - no sounds. It ran fine though. After resetting everything, got them both working on the test track. Moved them to the layout - now the A unit would not make any sounds, and the headlight wouldn't come on. It moved though. After another reset using F28 or whatever it is, both were working. For about 300 feet. Then the B unit stopped making noise again. After 3 trips around the layout, with either the A unit stopping sound, or the B unit, plus the train constantly coming uncoupled and the A unit running away while the B pulled the cars, I parked my train in disgust and went to look at other layouts. Yeah, if anything's going on eBay it's these two, and I'll put Loksounds in my Proto FAs. Officially done with MTH.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Most every other brand is important to me, or I see the relevance of their product line to the hobby - so they would be missed.
And, as explained in my first post, BLI and MTH are medium sized players that appear to have "issues" of that nature.
Bachmann is likely one of the most stable, for a number of reasons, like it or not. Their parent is the only one big enough to be publicly traded.
Walthers and Athearn also seem very well managed and never appear cash strapped, same with Bowser.
Atlas has what I consider strange policies in the way they sell locos and rolling stock, but there is a conservative method to those strange ways that has likely served them well also.
John (UP 4-12-2) may know one shop that is doing well with MTH HO, but conversation on this forum, and elsewhere, suggests very low acceptance among established modelers.
Now just maybe, MTH has carved out their own little "following" of up start HO RTR buyers, but even as I recognize that segment of the market, I don't see any manufacturer being successful long term without tapping into the long established more "serious" modeler - something they have not done among any modelers I know.
BLI has flirted with the those of us on the dark side (DC, no sound) off and on for years, but now seems to be not inviting us to the dance - I do believe that to be a mistake.
It is clear from the product releases of the last few years that all these companies are being more careful, but that rises and falls with the overall economy.
tstage It was only a short diversion, Rich, and merely to clarify earlier statements made. Tom
It was only a short diversion, Rich, and merely to clarify earlier statements made.
LOL
Tom, I was pretending to be a moderator.
Hmmm, as the OP, if this forum had an oar, I would use it to steer this thread back on course.
It is supposed to be about which manufacturers we would not like to see go belly up, not about who makes the most prototypical steamer.
Tom,
For the record, while the ATLANTIC CENTRAL is freelanced, or more accurately protolanced, on the same layout I model the B&O, C&O and WM.
And yes, a NKP Berkshire with C&O just slapped on the side is not acceptable (this is what MTH did), especially when two other resonably correct models are on the market. In case you don't know, unlike a NYC Berkshire, the C&O, NKP, Virginian and PM Berkshires were all built from the same plans, save those minor differences in domes, cabs, compressor shields, pilots, tenders (the C&O tenders were massive compared to the others) and other very small differences. But the sand dome size and location on those locos is a VERY distinctive feature giving each version a dramatically different look.
I raised specific challenges to the Bachmann bashing post from someone who admitted he does not even own any - If I took your meaning wrong, then your post had no bearing on what I or that poster was saying. Neither I nor the poster I was replying to made any comment about what models Bachmann offered or their accuracy - I simply once again challanged "blanket attack" on Bachmann as being junk based not only on my personal experience but my industry experience as well.
As for BLI Mikados and Pacifics, I have two heavy Mikados - the ATLANTIC CENTRAL roster is very USRA based, and I may go for a Pacific or two if I find a price that justifies ripping out the DCC/sound. Interestingly, those two heavy Mikados had more quality problems than any 20 Bachmann locos I have ever bought combined - but I fixed them myself.
But I doubt I would buy the heavy Pacific lettered in B&O unless I decide to kit bash it.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Tom, that is a straw man argument. That is like me saying Atlas diesels are no good because they make few first generation models that fit my era.
Tom, that is a straw man argument. That is like me saying Atlas diesels are no good because they make few first generation models that fit my era.
That's NOT what I said, Sheldon. I NEVER said Bachmann locomotives were no good. What I said was that their "representatives" for specific NYC models were off the mark; some quite noticeably.
As for models lettered for some railroad that never had such a prototype, Bachmann does not have any exclusive on that, the history of the hobby is full of them, and in fact there has been a resurgence of "fantasy" or "stand in" roadname offerings from a number of companies. MTH has Berkshires with incorrect domes, tenders and other details labeled C&O and PM? ConCor has just released "branchline" passenger cars that are complete fiction, like freelanced cars from years past.
As for models lettered for some railroad that never had such a prototype, Bachmann does not have any exclusive on that, the history of the hobby is full of them, and in fact there has been a resurgence of "fantasy" or "stand in" roadname offerings from a number of companies.
MTH has Berkshires with incorrect domes, tenders and other details labeled C&O and PM?
ConCor has just released "branchline" passenger cars that are complete fiction, like freelanced cars from years past.
Again, you've drawn wrong conclusions to what I've said and gotten into a defensive posture. I never implied that other companies were exempt from creating "foobies". There are plenty. My point is, as far as NYC and steam, Bachmann does not have a good track record for creating good representatives for NYC modelers. The Niagara may turn out to be an exception. I, however, have not seen one in person yet to draw any conclusions.
So what, they stick NYC on a few locos for some train sets. I don't know anything about NYC steam past a few "famous" locos. I suspect the NYC did have 2-8-0's and 4-6-0's, even if the two Spectrum models are poor stand ins. The rest of those locos you listed are train set toys.
It matters to me because I model an actual prototype; it's not as important for you, Sheldon, because you model a freelance line. (Although I think it would be fair to say by your later comment below that the Bachmann Berk was more satisfying to you because Bachmann got the details "right" - even though you model a freelance line.) Is one better than the other? No. It's just we've chosen to model two different things.
I can understand (and accept) less accuracy from toy train locomotives like the 0-6-0, 2-6-0, and 2-6-2. It doesn't mean I have to model with them. I expect more from the Spectrum line because it's their top line. Unfortunately, Bachmann is 0-2 for those NYC models because they are very different from the prototype. That does NOT make either one bad locoomotives. The 2-8-0, FWIW, is a real jewel and runs well.
And, yes - the NYC did have both Consolidated and Ten-Wheelers in the roster; 152 and 86, respectively.
Prototype accuracy is a different subject from running or mechanical quality. If not MTH makes junk. Sheldon
Prototype accuracy is a different subject from running or mechanical quality. If not MTH makes junk.
That was the point of my original post and my closing sentence, which I'll reiterate again:
"So, while they may run well, Sheldon, Bachmann steamers are generally "duds" on my layout." [underscore mine]
They are "duds" because they aren't a close enough representatives to what was found on the NYC. Notice I did NOT say "perfect". Very few models - if any - are "perfect". By the term "close enough" I mean that, in order to bring a locomotive closer to "perfection", all a modeler would need to do is to add additional piping and detailing vs. having to chop the body because the steam dome is completely the wrong size and shape.
PS - Broadway Mikados and Pacifics are no better, not one proto specifc detail in the bunch. Just a generic USRA loco with a long list roadnames. No USRA Heavy Pacifics were delivered to the B&O. Sure, a B&O P7 is a USRA "copy" - with a number of changes and which quickly evolved in the B&O shops into locos that look nothing like the BLI model. At leat Bachmann got the domes, tenders, cabs and other details right on their Berk - for half the price of MTH.
PS - Broadway Mikados and Pacifics are no better, not one proto specifc detail in the bunch. Just a generic USRA loco with a long list roadnames. No USRA Heavy Pacifics were delivered to the B&O.
Sure, a B&O P7 is a USRA "copy" - with a number of changes and which quickly evolved in the B&O shops into locos that look nothing like the BLI model.
At leat Bachmann got the domes, tenders, cabs and other details right on their Berk - for half the price of MTH.
Then to me the BLI USRA Heavy Pacific for the B&O is a foobie and, if I were a B&O modeler, I would not include BLI's version on my layout. The same can be said of a Proto 2000 Berkshire. I couldn't just slap a "New York Central" on the side of the tender because the C&O, NKP, and Pere Marquette Berks are entirely different than those on the B&A and the P&LE. The NYC Berk (their last big steamer purchase) resembled Niagaras.
The Bachmann Berk works for you, Sheldon, because they "got the domes, tenders, cabs and other details right". This is the exact reason that the Bachmann steamers did NOT work for me. Perhaps with the Niagara they did a better job. However, since I already have a Blueline Niagara, I'm not interested in getting one. Should Bachmann come out with a good representative of a specific NYC locomotive, I would have no qualms in purchasing one - i.e. if it fit my era.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Vincent, Clearly you don't understand the economics of this business. Exactrail was faced with increasing prices, going to direct sales or going out of business. Only you can decide what a given product is worth to you, but if the people making and selling it can not make a reasonable return on their investment, soon there will be nothing for you to buy - at any price. Personally very little in the Exactrail line is in my era or of any interest to me - but it is very nice product and if everybody else is getting $25-$35 for high detail freight cars, they will too. And if direct sales is how they keep their prices reasonable and their quality up, I wish them well. If you think for one minute that any manufacturer in this business is getting rich, you are sadly mistaken. This is a very tough industry to make money in, at any level, and it has gotten much tougher with all the discounting that never existed 40 years ago. I'm a bargin shopper too, but I know what the wholesale costs are on this stuff, so I pay any fair price if I really want something. Sheldon
Vincent,
Clearly you don't understand the economics of this business. Exactrail was faced with increasing prices, going to direct sales or going out of business.
Only you can decide what a given product is worth to you, but if the people making and selling it can not make a reasonable return on their investment, soon there will be nothing for you to buy - at any price.
Personally very little in the Exactrail line is in my era or of any interest to me - but it is very nice product and if everybody else is getting $25-$35 for high detail freight cars, they will too.
And if direct sales is how they keep their prices reasonable and their quality up, I wish them well.
If you think for one minute that any manufacturer in this business is getting rich, you are sadly mistaken. This is a very tough industry to make money in, at any level, and it has gotten much tougher with all the discounting that never existed 40 years ago.
I'm a bargin shopper too, but I know what the wholesale costs are on this stuff, so I pay any fair price if I really want something.
Not going to get into the whole economics thing... I don't really intend to try to understand the economics of the hobby. Besides, I'm one of those kids that just got out of college and can't find anything good. If I did have a good job, I probably wouldn't complain much.
Personally I think the manufactuers should get out of China and go to Mexico. Kill at least 3 birds with 1 stone...
But hey, having to fix up or modify an older car or loco to get what I want is pretty fun IMO. There was an article a bit back about making Magor hoppers out of Athearn BB PS hoppers. I know I have several in foob road names that I could use to start.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
I am just as likely to get sucked into purchasing a model based upon glitzy advertising photos as anyone else.
However, I have seen enough real models in person to know those glitzy photos are many times not the whole story--some are taken from certain angles to specifically de-emphasize problems with models such as pilots that hang too low due to excessive camber etc. Certain photographic angles make it easy to "hide" things.
That puts me in the "I usually like to see them before I actually buy them" crowd.
Since there are now no dealers at all who will have the new Exactrail freight car releases, I will definitely be less likely to buy them.
Also--regarding MRC--they still make the best power supplies on the market. I use the very affordable Sound Controller 2.0 to run both plain DC engines and DCC/sound equipped engines--and it can do everything I need to do including simple 3-keystroke reset of all factory settings when I need to do that--even on a DCC-only engine--and it works like a champ. I would most certainly miss MRC.
Packer Sheldon, I'm saying it might bite them in the foot. Lots of people I know refuse to buy their products soley because of that policy. I'm less inclined to because I tend to buy stuff only when it's on sale, discounted via a dealer, or used. I haven't looked to see if Exactrail does put their own products on sale, but I really don't want to be stuck paying MSRP... Especially on those 63' centerbeam flats... Personally, there is a big difference in seeing pictures of a model and the actual product. That's my gripe with the policy. With limited production, by the time there is a review, it's likely all gone....
Sheldon, I'm saying it might bite them in the foot. Lots of people I know refuse to buy their products soley because of that policy. I'm less inclined to because I tend to buy stuff only when it's on sale, discounted via a dealer, or used. I haven't looked to see if Exactrail does put their own products on sale, but I really don't want to be stuck paying MSRP... Especially on those 63' centerbeam flats...
Personally, there is a big difference in seeing pictures of a model and the actual product. That's my gripe with the policy. With limited production, by the time there is a review, it's likely all gone....
tstage ATLANTIC CENTRAL dti406 I would feel no sadness if "Botchmann" went under, I have never owned and will never own one of their products. I fixed way too many of them at the hobby shop I did repairs for. Rick J You are most welcome to not buy Bachmann, but you are missing out on a number of excelent models, especially if you model steam. Sheldon As long as they produce models that resemble your prototype. While I can't vouch for the 4-8-4 Niagara, many of Bachmann offerings in steam for the NYC are useless to me. Their 0-6-0, 2-6-0, 2-6-2*, 2-8-0, 4-6-0 - either never existed* on the NYC...or looked nothing like the NYC prototype. So, while they may run well, Sheldon, Bachmann steamers are generally "duds" on my layout. Tom
ATLANTIC CENTRAL dti406 I would feel no sadness if "Botchmann" went under, I have never owned and will never own one of their products. I fixed way too many of them at the hobby shop I did repairs for. Rick J You are most welcome to not buy Bachmann, but you are missing out on a number of excelent models, especially if you model steam. Sheldon
dti406 I would feel no sadness if "Botchmann" went under, I have never owned and will never own one of their products. I fixed way too many of them at the hobby shop I did repairs for. Rick J
I would feel no sadness if "Botchmann" went under, I have never owned and will never own one of their products. I fixed way too many of them at the hobby shop I did repairs for.
Rick J
You are most welcome to not buy Bachmann, but you are missing out on a number of excelent models, especially if you model steam.
As long as they produce models that resemble your prototype. While I can't vouch for the 4-8-4 Niagara, many of Bachmann offerings in steam for the NYC are useless to me. Their 0-6-0, 2-6-0, 2-6-2*, 2-8-0, 4-6-0 - either never existed* on the NYC...or looked nothing like the NYC prototype.
So, while they may run well, Sheldon, Bachmann steamers are generally "duds" on my layout.