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The BN passenger cars which way is forward, and a small pro vs. cons.

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Monday, February 4, 2013 8:20 PM

bend is on your left no matter what side, doesn't make sense though because locos stripes always were bent in the front of the loco. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, February 4, 2013 8:16 PM

I just looked at 17 more pictures of BN green passenger cars.  ALL had the bend to the left.  The odds that all these cars just happened to be facing the right way, and the bend on the other side is really to the right is one chance in 4 billion.

THE BEND IS ON THE LEFT WHEN YOU FACE THE CAR SIDE.

Exceptions to this might be for observation cars (bit I don't think BN ever painted any of theirs in the green and white scheme) and for business cars.  The 1975-1976 BN Annual has a section on BN business cars, and all of those had the bend at the FRONT of the car.  Thus, on the right side, the bend would be on the right.  This "bend to the front" concept appears to have been applied to business cars that had a rear platform, and also to track measuring car B-9 (which had windows on the end away from the bends).  Interestingly, BN's dynamometer car B-10 had the more typical "bend-to-the-left".

For all other cars, see rule in all-caps above.

Ed

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Monday, February 4, 2013 3:08 PM

7j43k

7j43k

I s'pose it's possible that one or more BN cars were mispainted and looked like the car on the left.  I'll ask on the BN list and see if anyone knows of an example.

Ed

It's been a couple of days and no takers.  So it looks like there were no exceptions to the rule:

The bend goes to the left when you are looking at the car side.

Ed

Ok I'm looking right now at page 121 so the cars are shown from the conductors side of the train, page 122 all bends are to the left page 124 GN 1139 is shown and it looks like the people are facing forwards and the bend seems like it's on the front of the car. 127 same thing with GN #127, pg 128 I can't tell it sure would be nice to know which end is the front end of the train this is hard to do when the bend cars are surrounded by 2 tone green or Ph. 1 amtrak cars that show no direction.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Sunday, February 3, 2013 12:15 PM

riogrande5761

7j43k

Burlington Northern #24

to each their own...

Quite true.  I'll note that AFTER BN got out of the passenger business, they changed to the "non-bent" scheme:

Ed

Why it looks "wrong" to me (the bent stripe) is that it isn't a continuous line.  Visually what looks "right" on a passenger trains, since a train is a long line, is a paint scheme which is hormonious or compatable with long, horizontal lines. 

Everyone has a right to like what they want, thats fine...  I'm just guessing what looks "right" to the general population since there has been a historically wide spread consensus with things like this, which is why over the history or railroads, the trend for paint and design is one which favors the eye passing continuously along the "long axis" of the train - long continuous lines.  Passenger trains nearly alwasy followed this visual pleasing effect. 

I haven't followed BN's passenger dealings.  What passenger business was BN involved in after Amtrak took over most of the nations passenger service 1971?  When did they get out of the business?

they were gone as soon as amtrak was there. I like the cars and the scheme because I'm usually the oddball out when it comes to things like that. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, February 3, 2013 10:55 AM

7j43k

Burlington Northern #24

to each their own...

Quite true.  I'll note that AFTER BN got out of the passenger business, they changed to the "non-bent" scheme:

Ed

Why it looks "wrong" to me (the bent stripe) is that it isn't a continuous line.  Visually what looks "right" on a passenger trains, since a train is a long line, is a paint scheme which is hormonious or compatable with long, horizontal lines. 

Everyone has a right to like what they want, thats fine...  I'm just guessing what looks "right" to the general population since there has been a historically wide spread consensus with things like this, which is why over the history or railroads, the trend for paint and design is one which favors the eye passing continuously along the "long axis" of the train - long continuous lines.  Passenger trains nearly alwasy followed this visual pleasing effect. 

I haven't followed BN's passenger dealings.  What passenger business was BN involved in after Amtrak took over most of the nations passenger service 1971?  When did they get out of the business?

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:52 PM

yeah, that's what my CC domes have the non bent scheme.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:14 PM

Burlington Northern #24

to each their own...

Quite true.  I'll note that AFTER BN got out of the passenger business, they changed to the "non-bent" scheme:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=750961

Ed

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Friday, February 1, 2013 8:55 PM

to each their own I guess, I think they look cool plus I'd never seen them before until after I got my first couple con cor cars

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, February 1, 2013 7:41 PM

I've got some photo's of those BN passenger cars in the 80's in my D&RGW books.  I never cared for the stripe that bends down on one end, it looks confusing and wrong.  Like a passenger car design gone wrong.  Yuk.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Friday, February 1, 2013 3:10 PM

7j43k

7j43k

I s'pose it's possible that one or more BN cars were mispainted and looked like the car on the left.  I'll ask on the BN list and see if anyone knows of an example.

Ed

It's been a couple of days and no takers.  So it looks like there were no exceptions to the rule:

The bend goes to the left when you are looking at the car side.

Ed

that's a little disappointing, so the bend is to the left both sides. oh well I'm not much of a stickler for prototypical realism. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, February 1, 2013 2:56 PM

7j43k

I s'pose it's possible that one or more BN cars were mispainted and looked like the car on the left.  I'll ask on the BN list and see if anyone knows of an example.

Ed

It's been a couple of days and no takers.  So it looks like there were no exceptions to the rule:

The bend goes to the left when you are looking at the car side.

Ed

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:12 AM

7j43k

My point was that it is VERY UNLIKELY that 15 random shots of BN passenger cars would ALL have the bend on the left unless the bend was to the left on both sides.  Thus the car on the left would be incorrectly painted.  For the other car, I would just run it with the seats facing forward.

I s'pose it's possible that one or more BN cars were mispainted and looked like the car on the left.  I'll ask on the BN list and see if anyone knows of an example.

Ed

Thanks Ed, hmmm this really has me wondering. I also ordered a color guide to the BN Big Smile so I also have to thank you for that, can't wait for it to get here. the seats are forward on the con cor and the stripe on the CC car goes to the front and bends at the front, where as the Kato does this 

front  engineer side                                            bend is over here

___________________________________________________

<---- direction seats are facing 

___________________________________________________

front conductor side 

 Bend is over here.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    May 2004
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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:23 PM

My point was that it is VERY UNLIKELY that 15 random shots of BN passenger cars would ALL have the bend on the left unless the bend was to the left on both sides.  Thus the car on the left would be incorrectly painted.  For the other car, I would just run it with the seats facing forward.

I s'pose it's possible that one or more BN cars were mispainted and looked like the car on the left.  I'll ask on the BN list and see if anyone knows of an example.

Ed

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:20 PM

hmmmm, a new dilemma which cars schemes are to prototype? 

do you know which side of the car you're looking at in the picture? just out of curiosity, I'm sure I could swap the direction of the interior car so that it's closer to 1:1.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    May 2004
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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:49 PM

I just looked at pictures of 15 BN green and white passenger cars in my BN color guide.  ALL had the bend-in-the-white to the left.  So, I'm betting that the Con-cor is wrong.

Ed

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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:55 AM

yeah. 

I brought this topic back up because I was comparing my con cors to someone else's Katos of which I hadn't owned yet a while back and I figured out why his cars stripes were in the other direction from mine. Indifferent

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:46 AM

I am sure that BNSF never gave a rip which way the cars were facing. The SEATS are supposed to face forward, but the seats can be rotated to face in either direction. AMTK does not like turning the seats, they would rather turn the whole car, I do not know if BNSF ever had such a policy, but it is likely that they did not since not all passenger terminals would have turning facilities, especially now that steam engines have gone bye-bye.

You must consider that as the great passenger routes faded into history, these cars could well have been used in commuter service, and would not have been able to be turned at such terminals. The conductor, or more likely the brakeman and or car-knocker would turn the seats if there were time. Otherwise the whole crew would pitch in to do it, or they would just leave have facing in each direction. As for the stripes, they would have to go whatever way they were pointed when it was time to leave.

ROAR

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The BN passenger cars which way is forward, and a small pro vs. cons.
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:11 AM

I have both cars by Con Cor and Kato, if you guys recall my thread asking about which way is forward dealing when with burlington northern cars. the con cor cars have the stripes going in the same direction on both sides, where as the Kato cars stripes are running in either direction. 

 the coach on the left is the con cor the engineers side(right) is up, the kato car is sitting on the conductors side(left).

  the cars have been reversed, the face down side of the kato car is going in the same direction as the face side up stripe on the con cor car. 

the cars are based off of two prototypes the con cor one is based off of GN's cars and the Katos are based off of UP's cars. the Kato cars look great but to apply the additional pieces you have to remove them from the sprue and snap them on(according to direction) that unfortunately not the case some of the parts had to be glued the antenna holders for the observation and diner cars were a pain to put in place especially on the diner which took a good 3 hours (6-9 pm). the Con cor cars are ready to go the schemes on both are Opaque the con cor cars have road numbers and names where as the Kato's carrry the BN road name and that's it. If neither the con cor or the Kato cars fit your tastes Intermountain is releasing 4 road numbers each to two different BN schemes, I've ordered one of the Silver and one of the Hockey stripe scheme. these will be released on May 31st. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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