Now don't laugh, but the best running shay I own is a self built MDC, runs at a tie a min. I am not too keen on the brass except a very small one I have, the others seem to need a larger radius to run well than 18".
Welcome aboard!
If your Bachmann Shay is brand new out of the box, it will require some run in time in both directions for it to smooth out. They are in my experience still "jerky" when coming down a good grade (4 percent) with cars, like a slinky action. This is most likely gear slop, i read somewhere that the actual 1:1 Shays did the same thing but I have never experienced it in any prototype shays I have ridden behind.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I actually just purchased an HO scale Bachmann 80-ton 3-truck shay which I successfully added the SoundTraxx Econami to for DCC w/ sound. It runs very well except at slow speeds it is kind of jerky. Don't know it the regear spoken of helps that but if it does that would be tempting to install.
I also have a 3-Truck Rivarossi Heisler which came DCC ready and I added the SoundTraxx Tsunami TSU-750 to it. It works amazingly! I recently added the new SoundTraxx CurrentKeeper so now it just carries smoothly over those rough/dead spots. Love it! I made a Youtube video about it. Link here. Someday I will have a Climax as well to complete my geared collection.
What started as a love of Thomas the Tank Engine has grown into this... a passion for all things railroading!
YouTube: FJX2000 Productions
Insta: hayden_trains_n_fjs
Rastafarr Wow, thank you Pathfinder! That book is pretty much exactly what I've been looking for; I'll be ordering one at first opportunity. The layout? The plan is still in flux, but it looks like I'll have access to three adjacent rooms, each about 12x15. The logging portion of things will be double leveled in two of them (the better half will allow me to cut train-sized holes in the walls as long as she doesn't have to fix them). The general idea is to use the primary room (currently the only one with trains in it) as an engine terminal/classification yard, and use it as a meeting point between the 'big steamers' and the loggers, while the two others are filled with geared steam goodness. Just to be a smartass, maybe I'll have the loggers working in Clayoquot Sound... Thanks again, and Happy New Year to all! Stu
Wow, thank you Pathfinder! That book is pretty much exactly what I've been looking for; I'll be ordering one at first opportunity.
The layout? The plan is still in flux, but it looks like I'll have access to three adjacent rooms, each about 12x15. The logging portion of things will be double leveled in two of them (the better half will allow me to cut train-sized holes in the walls as long as she doesn't have to fix them). The general idea is to use the primary room (currently the only one with trains in it) as an engine terminal/classification yard, and use it as a meeting point between the 'big steamers' and the loggers, while the two others are filled with geared steam goodness.
Just to be a smartass, maybe I'll have the loggers working in Clayoquot Sound...
Thanks again, and Happy New Year to all!
Stu
Glad to help! You may also want to take a look at his Vancouver Island Railways book as well; it has a section on logging but also ties all the rails together.
Clayoquot? Phsst, try Meares Island
Here's a photo I made of my Shay just today. It is usually assigned to shuffling cars around at the nearby mine, but I sometimes use it to work a rather long spur that leads back up a hill where 3 small industries are located.
Here it is coming back through a small town on the way to the mining area.
Jarrell
Oakhurst Railroad Engineer Duane, To fix derailments, be sure to check the wheel gauge as sometimes they are a little wide or narrow. Also, you are right to check that the truck screws aren't too tight. Another issue I had was after plugging in a new decoder in the tender, I had trouble with some of the wires between the tender and loco coming unbundled and causing forces that caused derailments. Overall though, the Bachmann shays are much more prone to derail on any bad track (including vertical kinks) than my MDC Roundhouse Shays or diesels, but I have worked through all of the issues and have few problems now. Rastafarr, I run 6-7 percent grades and 18" radius curves and have no issues. Although I suspect it may make the gears fail faster. Other comments ... The MDC Roundhouse Shays are much more noisy and less detailed than the Bachmann Shays and have wiper issues that must be addressed. However mine, build from kits, are doing pretty well and will vastly outpull my Bachmann Shays. I have a new Heisler on pre-order and look forward to getting and hearing it! The Bachmann 2-T Climax's are almost all dead from bad gears. My club has 2 of the 3-T Climax's and we have had no problems at all ... Marty
Duane,
To fix derailments, be sure to check the wheel gauge as sometimes they are a little wide or narrow. Also, you are right to check that the truck screws aren't too tight. Another issue I had was after plugging in a new decoder in the tender, I had trouble with some of the wires between the tender and loco coming unbundled and causing forces that caused derailments. Overall though, the Bachmann shays are much more prone to derail on any bad track (including vertical kinks) than my MDC Roundhouse Shays or diesels, but I have worked through all of the issues and have few problems now.
Rastafarr,
I run 6-7 percent grades and 18" radius curves and have no issues. Although I suspect it may make the gears fail faster.
Other comments ...
The MDC Roundhouse Shays are much more noisy and less detailed than the Bachmann Shays and have wiper issues that must be addressed. However mine, build from kits, are doing pretty well and will vastly outpull my Bachmann Shays.
I have a new Heisler on pre-order and look forward to getting and hearing it!
The Bachmann 2-T Climax's are almost all dead from bad gears. My club has 2 of the 3-T Climax's and we have had no problems at all ...
Marty
Rastafarr... I also run grades upt to I think 8%+ with 18" curves specifically for the geared loco as well, and like Marty, maybe that has contributed to my gear failures as well. I do know losing one gear has not been too critical (I'm only pulling a few cars), but lose two and the slip and slide begins.
Thanks to all who are replying as I am learning in this thread!
Duane
Rastafarr This might be kind of a basic question, but I'll ask it anyway. Obviously Shays and Heislers and such were meant for steeper grades, tighter curves, etc. Are 4% grades and 20" radius curves workable in logging modelling? Relatively realistic or merely functional?
This might be kind of a basic question, but I'll ask it anyway. Obviously Shays and Heislers and such were meant for steeper grades, tighter curves, etc. Are 4% grades and 20" radius curves workable in logging modelling? Relatively realistic or merely functional?
4% and 20" radius are definately workable in HO logging. There is the advantage of having generally shorter cars and shorter trains. As with any modeling, a wider radius can improve reliability and appearance, but all of the HO geared logging locomotives I can think of would operate fine on 20" radius.
On the grades, remember in your track planning that HO-scale runaways can be as problematic as real ones. If you are planning a run-around - to allow the locomotive to get on the other end of a cut of log cars to push them to a loading area, for example - then that track needs to be relatively level OR you will need to utilize some sort of "hill-holder" system. Sections of 4% grade (or more) were relatively common on prototype backwoods logging lines.
Bill
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
Rastafarr Thanks guys. I appreciate the help and thoughts. A little digging recently uncovered the recollection that my first ever ride on a steam train (and in the cab, no less) was in Shay #3 at the Forestry Discovery Centre in Duncan BC in the late 80's. It's still there, and It's still running. Given that, and my family's century-long association with logging on Vancouver Island, a 30's era logging line is a natural fit for me. ... Thanks again! Stu
Thanks guys. I appreciate the help and thoughts.
A little digging recently uncovered the recollection that my first ever ride on a steam train (and in the cab, no less) was in Shay #3 at the Forestry Discovery Centre in Duncan BC in the late 80's. It's still there, and It's still running. Given that, and my family's century-long association with logging on Vancouver Island, a 30's era logging line is a natural fit for me.
...
Thanks again!
Funny, I too have a long association with logging on Vancouver Island (I work in forestry myself on the Island). I am sure you have seen it and probably own but Bob Turner's "Logging by Rail" is worth having for the ideas and photos. http://www.sononis.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=2&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=186
You don't mention how big a layout you are looking at, but remember that the geared locomotives were pretty slow, so a prototypical situation would be to have them bring cars down the hill, then have a rod locomotive take them to the dump. Gives you a chance to run some neat stuff in addition to the Shay's etc.
My pride and joy is an HO Hillcrest No. 10, all nicely painted up. I also have a Tboiler Climax, 20T 2 truck Shay (my best runner funny enough), a 3 truck Shay, a 3 truck Willamette Shay wantabe plus a Sierra No. 38 (a 2-6-6-2) for the longer runs. I have tried the Roundhouse Shay when they first came out and gave up on it; I do also have a Bachmann Climax but without a layout at present it does not get much use. Oh, and an older Rivarossi Heisler in need of a new motor and some other stuff.
Geared Steam Mike Are you familiar with the NWSL conversion for the Bachmann 3T Shay (HO to HOn3) ? http://shop.osorail.com/category.sc?categoryId=188 I don't know anyone that has done it, or seen a picture of one. I would think it would look too bulky.
Mike
Are you familiar with the NWSL conversion for the Bachmann 3T Shay (HO to HOn3) ?
http://shop.osorail.com/category.sc?categoryId=188
I don't know anyone that has done it, or seen a picture of one. I would think it would look too bulky.
Exactly. Just too broad shouldered to fit with the rest of my narrowgauge, which is pretty much Rio Grande-spec. One of those next to a C-19 would just be weird.
I could see this conversion working for a HOn3 industrial line as an adjunct to standard gauge. That way it wouldn't loom over everything else. Many of the older brass HOn3 Shays had the same issue, but they were even oversize for standard gauge before they slapped narrowgauge trucks under'em.
The PSC Shays are very nice and dainty, but priced accordingly. I'd expect a Blackstone Shay to be enough short of brass $$ to be affordable and to be of a moderate-sized prototype. It might even turn out to be their first standard gauge loco, too (another market they've shown interest in), but I suspect they'll leave that to B-mann.
One issue is that the Shay was virtually absent from the Colorado 3' scene, so picking specific prototypes to model will be an interesting exercise, as it is Blackstone's preference to offer their models in different versions to assure wide interest among demanding modelers. I'm certain generic unlettered versions will still be available, as demand for these will be high.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Stu,
Count me in. I have 2 Bachmann Spectrum 80 ton 3 truck Shays, as well as two 3 truck Bachmann Spectrum Climaxs, and they are great runners as well as finely detailed. The shays were converted from dc to dcc (one with a tsunami sound decoder - a tough install - I ended up installing the speaker in a logging caboose). The climaxs were purchased dcc, one with sound (definitely the way to go). The one with sound is the Bachmann model with the white stripes. That is one cool locomotive. In total, I've had only one gear problem - Bachmann's technical/parts support is top drawer. I have no experience with brass shays, but dcc with sound is just too good to pass up. I have a run of 4% grade I built on my layout just for geared locos, although articulateds handle it too.
Will.
www.oakhurstrailroad.com
"Oakhurst Railroad" on Facebook
I knew it all sounded sorta familiar...
To stir the pot just a little more, Blackstone, which has its models built by B-mann parent company, did include Shays on its motive power survey that it conducted some time back.
I'm not sure that there an official agreement or anything, but Blackstone tends to bring out HOn3 items that share some of the current PROVEN B-mann mechanical technology. In exchange, Soundtraxx supplies the Tsunami decoders that have started showing up in top-end B-mann products. With the Shay design being proven and Tsunami sound in the right form factor, maybe a RTR HOn3 Blackstone Shay will eventually appear.
If Blackstone does, it will be well worth the price of admission and will likely exceed the sales of the K and C class locos it has sold so far IMO. Put me down for at least one each, 2-truck and 3-truck.
mlehman I don't know if this is our "geared steam" or not, but this nicely illustrated web page shows it's not a very complex task, although it might be a challenge if you suffer from fat-finger syndrome. http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/2012/06/repairing-bachmann-shay-line-shaft.html
I don't know if this is our "geared steam" or not, but this nicely illustrated web page shows it's not a very complex task, although it might be a challenge if you suffer from fat-finger syndrome.
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/2012/06/repairing-bachmann-shay-line-shaft.html
It is I Mike, thanks for the mention.
The Bachmann Shay, in my opinion, is a great model. The gear problem that plagued early versions was corrected in later runs. I have 3 shays, only one has experienced gear failure. Even then, Bachmann has made it a simple repair by offering the driveline assemblies for sale.
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_92&products_id=1651
It is a fairly easy repair and is covered on my site here. (as Mike linked to earlier)
The Bachmann 3T Climax is also a great logging engine, as well as Rivarossi Heisler, now Hornby. Incidentially these are about to be re-released with sound. The quality is excellent.
Yes there many of us logging/mining themed modelers out here, we spend alot of time on other forums that have specialized subject matter.
Come on in the waters fine!
Ha! The next question is what to do with my PA ABA consist. Love them too much to sell them; guess I'll run them when no one's looking!
singletrack100 SNIP I have been plagued by the gear problems Marty mentions and am glad to see it is not just me and that there are alternatives. Marty, I looked at the NWSL site- boy, that's technical! Do you have a particular part number or numbers for both them and Bachmann? it is the drive gears on the driveshafts I am loosing (literally), or they simply start to slide out of place. Who to ask for at Bachmann for the appropriate parts? Further information would be helpful please (thank you). SNIP
SNIP
I have been plagued by the gear problems Marty mentions and am glad to see it is not just me and that there are alternatives. Marty, I looked at the NWSL site- boy, that's technical! Do you have a particular part number or numbers for both them and Bachmann? it is the drive gears on the driveshafts I am loosing (literally), or they simply start to slide out of place. Who to ask for at Bachmann for the appropriate parts? Further information would be helpful please (thank you).
Here are a couple helpful links. First the NWSL regear set for the B-mann is this part #: 53-28006 BACHMANN SHAY REG KIT REGEAR FOR 80-TON 3-TRUCK SHAY.
An online acquaintance with a good reputation who will do this fix for you:
http://www.shayfixer.com/theshayfixerregearing.htm
I hope this is helpful. I'm a wannabee Shay owner so far. Had a partially completed MDC HO Shay, but sold it off to someone with more patience than I. I am looking for a nice HOn3 Shay for my logging branch -- someday the planets will align, my wallet will be fat, and the "right" Shay will pop up. Someday.
Rastafarr BTS has some seriously alluring logging-themed models I'd love to get my grubby mitts on. Any pitfalls I should be aware of? Is the Bachmann three-truck shay worth considering? Or stick to brass? Stu
BTS has some seriously alluring logging-themed models I'd love to get my grubby mitts on. Any pitfalls I should be aware of? Is the Bachmann three-truck shay worth considering? Or stick to brass?
I've built several of the BTS structures, and they are well-made kits - quite representative of eastern logging buildings. While they classify as craftsman kits, the parts are made well and everything fits properly on the ones I've built. Also, they are amenible to modification if you need to make them longer or shorter in a dimension.
Yes, I would definately say that the Bachmann HO 3-truck shay is worth considering. The biggest current concern is that Bachmann has stopped production of their shay, so I'd suggest getting ahold of one very soon. They are appropriate for your 1930's period, well detailed, and are generally good runners. The split gear problem is relatively common, but doesn't necessarily stop the locomotive from operating. That is, the problem gears are along the outside drive train, and if a gear splits, then that particular axle may no longer be powered, but there are six powered axles so the locomotive may still work - a split gear may not necessarily even be noticable. The NWSL re-gear set is a good fix, but these are very small parts and replacement is best done with a great deal of patience and preferably with some experience in working with drive-trains.
Bachmann's 2-truck Climax also had multiple split gear problems, both in the lower drive train and also within the drive tower. Even with professional work, my two examples are inoperable, as replacement gears for the drive tower aren't available. I understand that the drive train on Bachmann's newer 3-truck Climax is substantially more robust and hasn't been having the severe split gear problems (but I don't have one).
Brass HO shays retain their value very well, which is why even models from the 1970's still command good prices. Many of these older brass shays still run very well, although they often have more gear noise than modern counterparts. My PMF "Hillcrest" shay sees regular service alongside two Bachmann 3-truckers.
Concerning modeling a line powered by geared HO steam, I'd borrow a line from the movie "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?": "Come on in fellas, the water's fine".
I too model a Shay operation set in late '30's-early '40's. My Bachmann Spectrum 3-truck pulls double and sometimes triple duty, being the primary hauler for both skeleton log cars and coal hoppers, and sometimes performing switching operations as needed in my small mainline yard- usually to spot the coal cars at the tower dump or to bring the skeletons into the yard for log transfer.
I have also had some problems with derailments with this model, be it front, middle or rear truck, and have been all over the track looking for problems. I have played with truck screw tightness, anything I can think of. I have run other loco's on the same route with no issues (though not prototypical due to grades, curves, etc). I am considering filing the truck bosses some so the trucks can pivot more with the thought that might help things track a bit better (it is a fairly rigid setup). Again, insight from others may be helpful.
Thanks to all for all their experience on these forums. I continue to learn more each day, including here regarding gears! Happy RR'ing!
Although I only have a Bachmann 2 truck Climax and had both an MDC Shay kit I never started on and a Precision Scale 2 truck Shay I sold on Ebay, I am in love with Shays, Heislers and Climax locomotives.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I think you will find quite a few of us out there. My layout, the The Oakhurst Railroad is set in the 1920's and has 5 Shays, so you can check out my website: www.oakhurstrailroad.com
The Bachmann Shays are excellent, except for gear problems which can be fixed with replacement gear assemblies from Bachmann or replacement gears from North West Short Line. I'm sure others will comment more on this issue. I don't have any brass Shay's so I would be interested in how others think they run.
The latest in my determination to second-guess my current choice of eras, themes, ideas, sanity, and so forth...
Anyone here familiar with HO Shay modelling? 30's era logging railroads? This is an era that keeps turning my head; Shay locos may just be the coolest thing ever in the history of really cool things (citation needed), and BTS has some seriously alluring logging-themed models I'd love to get my grubby mitts on. Any pitfalls I should be aware of? Is the Bachmann three-truck shay worth considering? Or stick to brass?
Thanks in advance!