Does anyone know what percentage of Model railroders model in traction? Last I heard, it's was 12% thru a reader survey conducted by Model Railroader magazine - 24 years ago. Has the number increased (or decreased)?
No idea, but I've got subways and trolleys on my layout.
And, I wouldn't be without them. Really, it's not the numbers, but the enjoyment each of us gets from what we're doing.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The Route of the Broadway LION is 100% subway. All previous passenger equipment will become a static display in "Penn Station". Some freight cars will be made into yellow NYCT MOW units of various sorts. The rest? Who Knows?
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I have several ancient Red Ball steeple cab kits in S scale gathering dust , gotta get me some Athearn blue box switcher chassies on the cheap to power them, some re-guaging required, talk about minority modeling, S scale traction.
Dave
I don't know, but I'd guess the number is lower today. 12% included many who had a trolley car on a primarily non-traction layout. Back in those days, brass traction models were commonly available, too. Nowadays, relatively little available on the market. In comparison to narrowgauge, there has been less interest among modelers, too.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I model a traction line. 3 40 ton Steeple Cabs. A Doodblebug that will see an change over to electric. The eventual plan is for a pair of street people movers, but am unsure of type.
MisterBeasley No idea, but I've got subways and trolleys on my layout. And, I wouldn't be without them. Really, it's not the numbers, but the enjoyment each of us gets from what we're doing.
While this is true to an extent, it can also be a litttle frustrating when you're alone. You're unlikely to meet other modelers of electric railroads when in the hobby shop or at train shows. When you need help, or want to learn more about something, NOBODY knows anything (and the more obscure it is, the less reliable the answers tend to be).
Though you can connect with many people online, after a while, you'll start to notice the same people making the same posts of the same questions. Half the time when I google search things, I get my own forum posts as top results.
There are few people to share your modeling with that can appreciate it. I'm not saying people need to be a hardcore fan of a particular electric railroad, but it is easy to become overlooked by someone's steam locomotive model or other "popular" item. While we do get most of our enjoyment from "the journey" of making the model, it can be a little bit of a downer if your work goes unnoticed.
Modeling Conrail, Amtrak and NJ DOT under the wires in New Jersey, July 1979.
I have a street car line connecting my Union Station with the Downtown area on my layout. I'm using the Bachmann Peter Witt cars because I like how they look. However, I have learned these cars have flimsy mechanisms, and I am not pleased with that. I may change to Bowser of ConCor PCC trolleys. .... I plan to install overhead wires to look right, but that will be very time-consuming.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
I don't think that I model traction, even though there's (simulated) 1500VDC catenary over the rails. Somehow, my picture of, "Traction," doesn't include 2-Co+Co-2 and 1-Bo+Bo-1 motors, never mind a Bo+Bo+Bo-Bo with two carbodies and boxcab Bo+Bos capable of pulling a loaded coal unit upgrade unassisted.
If you figured out that I have an electrified line-haul railway, you're partially right. My main station is the engine change point where those motors hand off to steam (and vice versa.) Most of those newfangled diesel-hydraulics run through...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with steam, diesel-hydraulics and cat motors)
I don't model traction, but the guys I hang out with are longtime traction modelers.
In the Philadelphia area, there are two organizations that host meets, one at Rutgers University in the fall that draws folks from New York, and another every other year in the Philadelphia region.
The second one is hosted by the East Penn Traction Club, and features lots of layouts and vendors selling traction-related items.
The guys I know are O-scale modelers, and do a fair amount of scratch building to get what they want, but I think that's part of the attraction.
I've been drawn into the party, building HO traction models from various suppliers.
They are craftsman kits, but not terribly difficult to build. If you've built a Branchline boxcar, you can probably handle one of these kits.
Bowser makes power mechanisms that are the default standard for HO traction modelers.
Since I've been building these cars, I've researched some of the lines in the Philly area and I can see the attraction of traction ;) - but the layout I'm building is too small to add even a short bit of trolley track.
If you're on the West Coast, there appears to be a fairly substantial traction community that is a legacy of the the Pacific Electric in California.
There also seems to be a decent traction community in the Chicago area.
I've seen the Bowser PCCs run - and they look very smooth.
And TCS makes a specific DCC decoder that mimics the sequence of brake lights, etc. involved in a trolley stop.
KND Enterprises makes a number of traction kits in HO and O scales, mostly Philly-area models, but a few Midwestern prototypes also.
The community may be small, but there is a passionate group of modelers out there if you look.
Good luck and have fun!
Eric
I wish I was a headlight
On a northbound train
There are a few new traction models out there--like Bachmann's neat little single-truck Birney, saving trouble for those who don't want to repower an old Ken Kidder Birney so they travel slightly slower than Mach 1, and their excellent Peter Witt model streetcar. Interurbans and electric freight are still very much a niche except for those who aren't afraid to scratchbuild or kitbash. It's definitely a part of the hobby that appeals most to the person who wants something a bit different--and doesn't mind building things. Fortunately, modeling traction generally means smaller layouts, smaller consists and relatively limited motive power--it's not well-suited to the giant basement empire.
I model a line transitioning from electric to diesel (early 1950s) called the Sacramento Northern (northern California lines always play second banana to Pacific Electric) and my layout travels backwards in time--originally it was diesel-only, recently I erected trolley poles (but not wire yet) and started running steeplecabs and the occasional streetcar or interurban "fan trip" on my mainline.
Hi everybody!
Thank you very much for your comments on Traction model railroading - much appreciated. As you all know, I was the one who posed the question about where do traction model railroaders stand versus steam and diesel model railroaders in the hobby.
The last I heard, more than 20 years ago, steam model railroading was tops on the list by popularity. Diesel ran a close second to steam, and traction was a distance third according a reader survey conducted by Model Railroader magazine. I remember being very displeased with this finding. At the time, I could not understand how traction could be so far down the list of popularity. And I still don't understand it, today. I believe that steam and diesel are still far ahead of traction today. Judging from supplies, kits and accessories sold in model train hobby stores, their mostly geared towards steam and diesel. I am aware that you can find plenty of supplies and accessories for building traction layouts and kit bashing (for the traction modeler). But, compared to steam and diesel, the availability of traction supplies, parts and accessories are limited. I find this very disheartening.
Whenever I think of steam and diesel model railroading, I see in my head, layouts with prairies, rolling land, livestock out to pasture. I also see box cars, gondolar cars, flatbed cars, tank cars and cabooses on tracks in the middle of nowhere. All this strikes me as rather boring. And, with the exception of the Zephur and the M-10000, I find diesel equally boring. Most of the engines and rolling stock just doesn't appeal to me. But, getting back to the subject of steam, I definitely find the locomotives and their tenders most interesting and beautiful. But that is, nothing else. Even I find it difficult to imagine how anyone couldn't find the steam locomotive extremely fascinating. The magnificent steam locomotive thundering down the track with all it's moving parts and white steam billowing out from it's sides and dark smoke gushing from the smoke stack is an awesome sight to behold. I am admittedly a big admirer of the two famous american steam behemoths, the UP "Big Boy" and the SP Cab Forward. That's all I like about steam model railroading (and as a railfan), the steam engines and their tenders.
Now, when it comes to traction modeling, I see beautiful images of electric interurbans with colorful liveries and arch windows trundling through an urban street on girder rails buried in pavement or cobblestones. They run singlely or in trains of two of more. And they're sharing the street with automobiles and people. There's something magical about seeing a trolley car exiting a depot (situated between some city buildings) and rounding a tight curved track on a busy city street. I love the grandeur of old-time interurbans and trolleys running up and down an urban street while drawing electrical power from overhead wires.
It is all these images in my head, about traction, that makes me wonder how can traction be so far behind steam and diesel when it comes to popularity. As you can see, I am not that good at conveying my thoughts regarding my preference for traction - but I think most of you get the idea of what I mean. But, one good thing that's come out of the limits of supplies, parts and accessories for the traction hobby - it forces the modeler to scratch build. And as a result, the modeler developes excellent skills and becomes very talented in the hobby - more so than his steam and diesel counterparts.
Once again, thanks for your comments. I enjoyed reading each and everyone of them.
Please excuse my lousy writing. I didn't proof read my comment before posting it.
24 years ago was 1988. At that time, many folks in their 40's or older would have had first hand knowledge of streetcars, electric interurban lines, etc. However many of those systems shut down in the forties and fifties, so today there are fewer people who have memories of them - so, I would suspect, there are fewer people who would be interested in modelling them.
That being said, narrow-gauge railroading pretty much ended in the US (outside of museum type lines) in the sixties, yet I suspect narrow-gauge modelling is stronger than ever. In part that's because of new products like Bachmann's On30 line; I suspect the new high-quality streetcars out now could have a similar effect.
Plus, I wonder how many folks are modelling "new" traction systems, like light-rail lines??
CR&T's free-standing benchwork is going down this coming year, and it is N Scale!
The plan is essentially a two-level u-shaped layout in an outer dimension footprint of apx. 5' x 9'. N Scale is what makes it possible in the limited amount of space.
Due to the stress of traction poles for overhead catenary (for GG1), or single-wire overhead (for PCC & box motor), the base must be plywood instead of foam many today employ in layouts.
Scratchbuilding is also the traction norm (for any scale) as opposed to primarily R-T-R like it is for steam or diesel-- for the poles, overhead wire, rails in streets, and traction motive-power conversions. Still thinking about including a simple subway division, which would make it "2.5 levels" under the layout's upper level, roughly at eye level.
I'm guessing N Scale traction is less than 1-2% of model railroaders -- but -- It is a big deal in Japanese model railroading -- See eBay's Plaza Japan.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
green_elite_cab It is more like "Commuter/Passenger operations vs Freight operations" Most Traction operations were commuter operations. While it was true that some traction companies offered limited freight service, this was usually in the form of terminal switching. Street cars and interurbans are thoroughly in the "commuter rail" category, lumped in with Subways, Rapid Transit lines, Electric MUs, and even locomotive hauled commuter push-pulls. I feel these would be the same arguments for a traction layout. Indeed, i believe a compelling traction layout could probably be built in the same area as Mindheim's "east rail" Layout. Commuter operations specifically are unpopular. Once again, almost all traction is a form of commuter rail/ mass transit, People generally don't seem to like the high traffic density and frequent stops and starts. This may not only be boring to some, but also frustrating. Most model railroads aren't really large enough to operate commuter trains "realistically". By the time the tail end of a train leaves the station, it is often almost to the next one.
Yes, this is a problem on the Route of the Broadway LION, and I figured this out early on. Running the Broadway Local on my layout is every bit as boring as running it in New York City. It is called "Scraping the Wall", that is making every local stop. And it takes 18 minutes to run the railroad from 242nd Street down to South Ferry and back again, a total of 27 station stops. And if you over shoot a station, you will have to go down town and take a drug test.
This is why I automated my railroad. Now I have eight trains on the railroad all of the time, all of them making their proper stops and then continuing on their way. As for the LION, him operates the BROADWAY TOWER, a full size representation of a GRS model-5 interlocking plant. And on top of the plant is a book, the Train Register: Each train in and out of the 242nd Street station is logged by time and the number of the first motor. That at least gives the big oaf something to do while the trains are running. It also gives the LION time to hob-nob with visitors.
The Interlocking Machine:
The Train Register is in .PDF format and may be seen here.
The railroad handles 438 local trains daily from 242nd street station. There are express trains as well, but each of them (uptown and downtown) run on a loop and do not really interface with the Broadway Tower, I have not built any schedule for them but perhaps I will count them. Each train makes its pass through any given station about once every five minutes. Mathematically that would be about 432 trains during the day, plus others at a longer headway at night time.
Anyway: It is a lot of trains moving in one 24 hour period.
Years ago I built a Marklin layout and used US prototype trolley wires for the overhead as I wanted something more in scale than the Sommerfelt or Marklin offerings.
Hanging the wire and getting the bridles to work correctly around curves took an extreme amount of patience and do - overs. I was very pleased with the result and did run pantographs off of the wire.
As for why there isn't more traction?? Who knows?? I would say that it does entail some effort to get a trolley system up and running...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
green_elite_cab The reality is that geographically (and like population-wise) traction companies and commuter rail serve very small parts of the country relative to the rest of the country. People are more likely to find model railroad inspiration in the rail lines local to them. The Traction subset of the hobby requires effort, skill and patience.
The reality is that geographically (and like population-wise) traction companies and commuter rail serve very small parts of the country relative to the rest of the country. People are more likely to find model railroad inspiration in the rail lines local to them.
I'm in my 40s, and I grew up riding light rail as a teenager--I didn't have the money for a car (preferred spending my meager income on models!) so buses and light rail were how I got around. As the revival of American electric railroading has occurred, we may see growing interest in modeling traction. Since some cities run "legacy" fleets or restored/reproduction historic cars (San Francisco, Little Rock, Tampa) the older styles of streetcars are often quite familiar to city transit riders, so modeling older styles of streetcars is less of a stretch. I have a feeling that the generation growing up today will relate more to trains than Boomers or Generation X did--kids growing up in the 1950s-80s assumed trains were going the way of the dodo, while cities are now rebuilding their transit systems and Amtrak ridership is at an all-time high. Plus, there is appeal to those with limited space, like narrow gauge--traction layouts can run on absurdly sharp curves, and tend to be smaller than steam or diesel layouts of the same scale. Trains are short (only one car for trolley layouts!) which makes a small layout seem larger; traditionally, while the standard HO layout was a 4x8, a standard "starter" trolley layout was a 2x2 loop with a passing track or carbarn!
The other factor mentioned by the OP is interesting--some folks aren't as interested in modeling the countryside. I'm a city boy by inclination--I like the country okay, but would rather visit a city and look at gritty old buildings and industrial districts (for modeling ideas!)
My modeling reflects this--it's an industrial belt line through a city, serving industries but also modeling residential neighborhoods where the belt line ran. Operation is mostly freight, with passenger runs in the form of "fan trips" (the prototype line was fairly accommodating to early traction fans chartering obsolete equipment for tours.) Modeling city scenery also satisfies my interest in historic architecture, and can go into greater depth and variety than the traditional one-street country town down the middle of a 4x8 loop of track.
Hm...guess I have to take some more recent photos. I have installed more poles for trolley wire since this photo, but not wire yet.
Once again, I appreciate the comments from all of you who posted here. The comments are loaded with with terrific insights, especially those from commenters green_elite_cab, BroadwayLion and Jetrock. I find all of you quite knowledgeable on the subject of modeling traction and model railroading in general.
Now I know, from reading all the comments, that traction modeling, while gaining some interest from current and new model railroaders, will never catch up with steam and diesel model railroading. But, I'm okay with that. There will always be enough scratch building, kit bashing kits and traction models out there to keep us traction modelers well supplied, satisfied and busy. It really wouldn't matter much if traction is a distance third on the list of popularity. And green_elite_cab hit the nail on the head when describing how I would enjoy traction modeling. I do prefer to see trolleys in their environment, through little vignettes of life. I do find this very satisfying. Indeed it is not about the operations, it's about the feel. And I also agree that this thought is in the minority. Watching a commuter train making frequent stops and starts - where the"tail end of the train leaves a station, it is often almost to the next one" would never bore me. I love traction. I don't call myself "TractionNut" for nothing.
Recently, I re-acquired six (6) back issues of Model Railroader starting with November 1988 issue. The 6 issues contain a six-part series on the "Benchwork for the O'Dell County Traction Co." by Bruce Goehmann. The series offer wonderful ideas and instructions on building an HO scale "freelance" traction layout. Someday, I will design and build an HO scale traction layout. But, it will not be freelance. I will model my layout after the Pacific Electric Railway. I have about twenty (20) Suydam trolleys and interurbans I've purchased from eBay in the last 8 months and I will paint and apply them to the layout I intend to build in the future. I will use other publications to help me as well. I was looking for a model railroad club to join - particularly a club that models traction model railroads. But, they're out of way - too far to travel. Right now, Bruce Goehmann is my role model. I will follow his examples.
Once again, thank you for your insightful comments
No excuses--start building it! Start with something tiny--maybe a 2x2 or 2x4 trolley loop, with an edge of the line that goes "off the table" and just start building from there! If your equipment is more interurban in nature, you might have to start out with wider mainline curves, like 8" or 10", and put it on a 2x4 foot hunk of luan plywood.
One big advantage of modeling an interurban like PE is that they ran both passengers (local streetcar and interurban) and freight, and unlike most Midwestern interurbans, rather than being limited to interurban-style freight cars, they interchanged cars with steam railroads. So you can use the same off-the-shelf boxcars, reefers (for all those oranges!), flatcars and gons carried at every hobby shop--you'll just pull them behind a steeplecab or box motor instead of a diesel (or you can model late-period PE, when they used diesel-electrics equipped with trolley poles to activate signals!) It's not hard to find PE freight car decal sets, but they interchanged frequently with SP, UP and AT&SF, and Los Angeles' role as Pacific port meant just about any railroad's equipment could wind up on PE trackage.
The toughest part will be structures--there are a few commercial kits based on California prototypes, but other than one Suydam cardstock model, nobody makes suitable kits of California bungalows, Spanish Colonial Revival stucco homes or other archetypally Californian architecture. A few can be bashed into something resembling a CA prototype.
I posted some current photos from my layout yesterday (admittedly, all with cheesy cellphone cam) here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/212317.aspx
This layout started as a 3x6 foot L-shaped switching layout (about three-quarters of the way down the page, the portion that looks the most "done") and I have added on 4-6 foot modules over the past few years, currently running two-thirds of the way around a 12x24 foot room for a mainline run of about 48 feet. The final product will run all the way around the room, then hopefully will branch into the middle of the room using islands for branch lines, but I don't plan on reaching that point for a decade or more, and my hands are full with the pike I currently have. Sectional railroading has many advantages--starting with the ability to get up and running very, very quickly, and because traction modeling is well-suited for smaller pikes anyhow, a couple of sections might be all you need to start.