"They don't make'um like they use too"

[rexhea]

They don't make'um like they use too" Man, am I glad!!!!

Flash News Break

"Early this evening an East bound Southern Passenger train had its RPO car de-rail and plummet 6 feet to "Garage Canyon's" floor, landing on a piece of plywood. The occupants were not found and presumed dead.

The RPO car, a Walthers Budd, was in surprisingly good condition with only a few dislocated parts. Employees of the SRR were able to snap it back together and put the car back into service in a minimal amout of time"... end news flash.

It's sure not the plastic I had when I was a kid or it would have been in a thousand pieces.[:D][:D]

I got two questions about the Budd cars.
The couplers are much higher than they should be. How can I lower them since there is a car bracket under them?

The lighting kits are indeed easy to install, but since there is only friction contact with the power lugs they are easily jarred loose. Solution??

REX[:)]

[Anonymous]

Rex,

I would get out my trusty Walthers Catalog and turn to the Kadee information pages or go to Kadee's website for couplers to help you out.

Don't know what type of friction contact you are talking about. Can something be squeezed to apply more friction? Could the connectors be changed out with something better? Could the contacts be soldered together?

[AntonioFP45]

Wow!

That's good and surprising news that your car survived. Looks like we are getting our money's worth with the Walther's cars! They are pretty well built.

I hope someone does answer the height question. I'm may be wrong, but I think Bill Matthewson, Don Gibson, or someone that's knowledgeable about issues with HO scale trucks and knuckle couplers answered this question before.

Hopefully these guys will chime in soon as I just discovered that my Walther's cars won't couple with my Rivorossi's for the same reason. Before I start tearing things apart I like to read what others have done that encountered similar problems.

Well, put that car back in revenue service!

[CP5415]

I have the same problem with my Walthers cars. Except when I use my Proto PA which are good with the existing couplers. Go Figure!

Kadee recommended # 5's or 42's if the %'s don't work for you.

I'm going to use the 42's as I think the 5's will be too high.

Gordon

[twhite]

Rexhea: I had the same coupler problem with my Walthers passenger cars until I got the Kadees with the lowered coupler head (can't remember which #, as usual). Walthers and some Athearn cars seem to come with the couplers installed too high, at least when compared to the Kadee coupler height guage. Don't know whether this is an oversight on their part, or they're trying to tell the rest of us something--

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by deschane


Don't know what type of friction contact you are talking about. Can something be squeezed to apply more friction? Could the connectors be changed out with something better? Could the contacts be soldered together?

Friction was a bad word to use. Its a spring action contact.
The car comes equipped with electrical pickups and on the inside end there are two tabs. The idea is all you have to do is bend the tabs down for spring pressure and slip the lighting board under making contact with its two pickups (rivets).

But, when you insert the pin guides through the sides for the rest of the support board it has a tendency to remove some of the spring pressure. This also happens when you put the roof back on. This, of course, gives you blinking lights or they just go out. Soldering may be the answer if I can scratch up the tabs enough to take the solder and not melt the plastic end that they come out of. Anyone else have this problem?

Couplers:

I thought about shimming, but again there is a bracket underneath that won't allow much. I have considered cutting off the bracket to allow for the lowering, but I sure hate to do that. [V] #5's may help some, but I believe will still be too high. May order 42's like CP5415 suggested, but I sure would like to hear from Don or Bill or anyone that has solved this problem before I cut or spend more money. [%-)]

If anyone has a chance to pass this to them, I would appreciate it. I probably should have named a topic for this one.
Thanks all.

REX

[rexhea]

Thanks twhite, I'll take a look and see what I can find. It is strange that they would be so far off spec's.

RE X

[Don Gibson]

1. Since most passenger cars travel together, it's only important they mate with each other. I even remove the 'hoses' on most of mine since they aren't used.

2. The 'head end' cars DO need to match up with the engine, however.

I find couplers too LOW on all ATHEARN products and have resorted to different methods to correct same, as engines connect and re-connect constantly. ON Genesis SD-75M's I resorted to 20 series, and on Genesis F-'s different couplers on front and back. I'll check out and see if I can ressurect.

... in ANY CASE, a KD coupler height gauge is MANDATORY. Rex: Based on my experience with Athearn, I suspect the Budd's are correct

[twhite]

Don: Agree with you about most Athearn cars--I've had to shim the trucks with Kadee washers to get them to match the rest of my equipment. Just bought a 6-pack of Rio Grande hoppers from Athearn the other day--RTR--and lo and behold, the couplers were too HIGH! Box says 'made in China' which surprised me, so I wonder if it's the overseas factories that are goofing up? But Rexhea isn't the only one having trouble with the Walthers cars, I hear. Several friends of mine have stated the same thing.
Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea

They don't make'um like they use too" Man, am I glad!!!!

Flash News Break



The lighting kits are indeed easy to install, but since there is only friction contact with the power lugs they are easily jarred loose. Solution??

REX[:)]

Are you talking about the light bar tabs that are suppose to make contact or the truck screw heads??

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

Don But Rexhea isn't the only one having trouble with the Walthers cars, I hear. Several friends of mine have stated the same thing.
Tom

My problem,too short radius(22) so I converted to the KD #26. Budd Diaphragms were too close & rubbing on the curve.

[Anonymous]

I found my Walthers cars (I have a set of Superliners and a set of C&NW bilevels) had the stock E-Z Mate couplers mounted slightly too high, but when I fitted Kadee #5s or #58s they turned out to be the right height. I think the pockets are engineered to take into account the thickness of the brass spring on the Kadee, and a little space to allow free movement, and leave the coupler at the right height.

I've not yet tried any of their Budd or PS streamline cars so can't comment on these, but suspect the situation may be the same. I was very close to buying one of the C&NW PS sleepers and a lighting kit (as the start of a consist) in my LHS recently, but they only had the "Late" paint scheme (which wouldn't match the Erie-Built it would be running with) so I've still not bought any!

[rexhea]

Don,
I finally open my KD height gage package and put it to work (forgot I had it until you mentioned it [:I])

O.K., several things seem to be the problem.
1. The couplers have a lot of up and down slack and some hang down at an angle.
2. Using the gauge and holding the coupler in a Horizontal position, the centerlines are off from about .065" to.075". (about half the Walthers coupler)
3. I don't know what type or number coupler they use, but the thickness of the face is small compared to the #5 KD and any slight rise or dip in the track will sometimes cause an uncoupling at slow speed.
4. The difference in eyeball height is exaggerated even more by the trip pins being way to high.

Solution? Well, maybe all #5's will do it or another size. Still open for suggestions. [:)]

Locomotive3

I have a min. rad. of 26" where the passenger train runs and seems to do all right. I did have a problem with the diaphrams sticking when I first ran the cars. That seems ok now.

The light bar tabs that contact to the Car's inside tabs is what's giving me problems. I am trying to figure a better way for this connection without a lot of tearing up.

REX

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea

Don,


The light bar tabs that contact to the Car's inside tabs is what's giving me problems. I am trying to figure a better way for this connection without a lot of tearing up.

REX

I'm assuming the following; the roof tabs are not making a good contact with that soldering point, that little O, that has solder around it in the car, correct?

[rexhea]

Locomotive3,

That's correct. I have thought about soldering them together, but the car tabs are small and protrude out from the plastic. May end up melting the plastic.
Heck, I may not have a choice.

[Anonymous]

When I had the bars, I too had the same problem,

Bridge the gap.

Take a short piece of wire, thick enough to seat into the hole, just long enough to make contact with the tab and the LIGHTS will stay on.
Before you snap the roof into place, pretest.

No soldering needed. That should be a tight fit if you use a thick enough piece.

[Anonymous]

You may wi***o consider installing seated passengers. I have a vendor link if your are interested.

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomotive3

When I had the bars, I too had the same problem,

Bridge the gap.

Take a short piece of wire, thick enough to seat into the hole, just long enough to make contact with the tab and the LIGHTS will stay on.
Before you snap the roof into place, pretest.

No soldering needed. That should be a tight fit if you use a thick enough piece.

Great idea!
I tried so hard to make it complicated. [banghead] Gads! sometimes I feel like a [D)]. [:D][:D]
I guess I need to just set a car refurbi***ime and get at it. Hope changing the couplers will help its problem.

Yes, please give me the link for seated passengers. That will look much better in the lighted cars. The CEO has been after me to start getting people on the layout.[;)] I am also looking for workers, i.e. track, steel, coal, trades. I would like for them to look good, but not too expensive. This is a new area and I could use the suggestions.

Thanks a Bunch

[Anonymous]

I have the link at another site so I will get back to you later tonight. It has tons
of Preiser Figure People and at 25% + off the Walthers catalog.

[rexhea]

Locomotive3,
I tried the wire through the holes on the ckt bd. I used # 16 minus a strand or two.

I did it a little different by soldering the wire to the rivet on the ckt bd. and then leaving about 1/4 inch on the other side. I then split the strands in half, installed the light bar, and wrapped the strands over the tabs pushing down against the board and trimming. That should hold her in place for good contact. I jarred it around pretty good and it keeps on ticking. [:)]

I put a #5 KD on my 'head end' car to match the loco and I believe its going to help. It sure lines up good. I'll go by my LHS and get so more for the other cars. Thanks

REX

[Anonymous]

I had to install the #26 long shank cause of 22" radius, then a #21 long undershank on the loco..

My Atlas Dash 8-32BHW would only haul three Budds because too-too much wheel drag so I opted into the IM ball bearing & non bb that only have one wheel insulated. That negated further use of the light bars.

Don Gibson recommends a little KD "Grease-em" on the axle ends

Here's a link to other Budd solutions.
http://www.trainbuddy.com/Notes/Notes.htm#Walters%20Budd%20passenger%20cars

As promised here's the Preiser link.
http:www.rocousa.com/preiser.asp scroll down to Preiser database & click. This should open up
to 40 to 70 pages of figures.

[rexhea]

Locomotive3

Thanks for the web sites. The notes at Train Buddy are very informative and I am going to follow their advice. Even have a note on Southern RR Budd's which is the passenger service I have.

Your not kidding about the site for Preiser figures being loaded. One thing I am going to look for (there and where ever) is the set for steel workers in silvers. Apparently they were made for Walthers Blast Furnace and steel series. Walthers said they have discontinued them, but there may be a set out there gathering dust somewhere.

Many thanks to you and all that have contributed there thoughts and ideas to this thread.

REX[:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

There is a remote possibility that you may run across it on e-bay, Toys & hobbies, Model RR, trains, HO and finally track,accessories,scenery,

Happy railroading.

[CP5415]

It's comfirmed.
Kadee#42 works for the Walthers Budd cars.
It dropped the coupler height so that my Athearn P42 couples to it perfectly.

Gordon

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

It's comfirmed.
Kadee#42 works for the Walthers Budd cars.
It dropped the coupler height so that my Athearn P42 couples to it perfectly.

Gordon

Thats great news Gordon. I ordered #42's and should come in the next day or two. I sent an email to Mike at Walthers asking him about this problem. I also asked him about the lighting module contact problem. Still waiting for a reply.[:(]

Thanks again for coming back with the good news.


REX[:D][:D]