I agree with some of the respondents that it is easier to buy them from Walther's (A-Line, Tichy, etc.) BLMA has a nice jig and if you google HO grab irons you (might) get some nice case studies of how to form grabs with serrated pliers.
GMCRail,
Thanks for posting your info. I'm currently bending brass .012 wire for a passenger car and I find it challenging to get the same exact results each time for a specific measurement using needle nose pliers.
I thought about building a jig, but if there is a tool that is already available and makes the job a hassle free snap, then I'm interested.
Are there other versions of this Micromark tool?
gmcrail Micro Mark has a nifty gauge for bending grab irons. It's a bit pricey, but works quite well: Grab Iron Bending Gauge I have one - I like it. It doesn't do drops. but others have ideas for those...
Micro Mark has a nifty gauge for bending grab irons. It's a bit pricey, but works quite well:
Grab Iron Bending Gauge
I have one - I like it. It doesn't do drops. but others have ideas for those...
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I use staples from a paper stapler, not the big thick industrial type, no problems. they bend easily and seem to be the exact size, many grabirons are too thick.
Detail Associates offers flat brass bar in a variety of widths and thicknesses, ideal for making multi-part steps for baggage and other head-end cars:
Wayne
I used Tichy to create new stirrups on my converted baggage car...
http://www.freewebs.com/marylindsayrr/rebuild%20projects/Rebuild_1700SeriesBaggageCar.html
~Kyle
The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........
www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update: 5/31/12)
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
jrbernier Jim, If you are going to make those special curved grab iron on Alco engines, you will need to make a jig as others have mentioned. If you do not need 'hundreds' of them, I would buy them: Custom Finishings has them - CF-205. I think Details West or Detail Associates also has some of the special Alco hardware. Jim
Jim,
If you are going to make those special curved grab iron on Alco engines, you will need to make a jig as others have mentioned. If you do not need 'hundreds' of them, I would buy them: Custom Finishings has them - CF-205. I think Details West or Detail Associates also has some of the special Alco hardware.
Jim
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/247-205
BTW; I'm adding grabs to my RS-2 myself. I just got done adding tsunami's to both of mine and they sound great.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
mononguy63 if you take a piece of wire thats already been bent into a flat "U" shape, poke it through the holes and bend the straight legs, you may indeed have made a nice drop iron. But, what you've also made is a staple. The wire's bent on both side of the styrene, so the only way to extract your drop iron is to break your jig!
if you take a piece of wire thats already been bent into a flat "U" shape, poke it through the holes and bend the straight legs, you may indeed have made a nice drop iron. But, what you've also made is a staple. The wire's bent on both side of the styrene, so the only way to extract your drop iron is to break your jig!
You have to bend the grab iron down 90-degrees on the FRONT end - NOT the back end - so that you can extract the the grab iron from the jig. Yes, if you bend the legs on the back end, you've pretty much locked it in place.
One way around that is to cut slots in the jig (from the top) rather than drill holes. Then you can just slide the bent grab iron up and off the jig. The jig, however, will need to be made from a less pliable material like metal. Otherwise, it will be too thick.to make adequate bends for your grab irons.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Go to your local auto parts store and get a feeler gauge. This is for setting the valve adjustment on car engines and has thicknesses of leaves from about .003 on up to .025 or so. Figure out how wide the rungs need to be and extend the correct number of leaves out to achieve that width. Using thin brass wire, just bend the wire around the edges of the leaves.
On the locomotive, glue plastic inside the body where you want the grab irons. Then when you drill through the body, you have created a small shaft for the wire to fit into.
Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers
Here's an update based on some experimentation last night, and why the hole-in-styrene approach doesn't work for making drop irons. I used my pin vise to make a hole in a thick piece of styrene, then suddenly had a Mr. Obvious moment - if you take a piece of wire thats already been bent into a flat "U" shape, poke it through the holes and bend the straight legs, you may indeed have made a nice drop iron. But, what you've also made is a staple. The wire's bent on both side of the styrene, so the only way to extract your drop iron is to break your jig!
Another obervation is that the wire is too stiff and distorts the styrene around the hole, not allowing for a nice tight bend.
I'm thinking a flat grab will be a nice representative grab - without looking at a prototype photo alongside the model, who'll really notice?
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
That should work, Jim. Again, the challenge will be being consistent with bending the wire.
Do you have a pair of slightly larger needle-nose pliers (that you could squeeze from the side as you hold the wire with the other pair of pliers) to achieve a tight radius at the bends?
I'm thinking about using my needle nose pliers for the first bends - the jaws are tapered and ridged, so I can use dividers to find the spot on the jaws that matches the grab width and mark it with a piece of tape. Lay the wire in the pliers and push downboth protruding ends. Instant flat grab. I can then use the hole-in-styrene method to bend the drops.
Thoughts?
Dehusman's suggestion is simple and easy but it doesn't give you the 'drop' in the grab. That is also fairly easy. All you need is three pieces of styrene. They will be glued together to form a flat panel with a groove down the center the same width as the grabiron wire. The top two sheets need to be the same thickness as the depth of the 'drop'. Make your grabs using dehusman's method, and then put the grab in the slot and bend the protruding legs over. Voila - a grab iron with a drop bend.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Making a grab iron jig isn't that hard, just drill one hole in a peice of plastic or brass sheet the width of the grab iron set back from the edge. Stick brass wire through the hole, bend it over towards the edge, then bend it over the edge. Trim to length.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
For one or two locomotives, I wouldn't bother making a jig, but it's a good idea if you're doing a lot of locos or cars.I custom-bent all the grabs on this Atlas RS-1, done for a friend. The curved ones aren't that difficult, although the ones on this loco have an intermediate support mid-way through the curve - they were soldered in place after the grabs were installed.
A modified Atlas RS-3
I hope you realise that adding scale-size wire grabs (.012" brass wire is about the correct size for HO) will make those plastic handrails look oversize, although the Proto ones may not be as bad as the original ones on the older Atlas models shown. I replaced the Atlas ones using .015" or .020" music wire. Simply use the original handrails as a pattern to bend the wire, then remove the plastic handrail sections from between the stanchions. Use a suitably-sized drill to make a hole in each stanchion, then thread them on to the new metal railing. After you install the new railings on your loco, square-up the stanchions, then apply a minute drop of ca at both the top and bottom of each stanchion, securing them to both the railing and the walkway. The music wire will flex somewhat, much like the plastic handrails, but won't break like the plastic ones sometimes do, and they'll spring back to their proper position, unlike soft brass, which will "take a set" in the bent position.
I believe there's a short article in the August 2012 issue of RMC on modifying handrails in this manner.
Well David's suggested jig caused me one of those "well, duh, why couldn't I think of that myself" moments. If you note my earlier posted prototype photo, there are a total of six drop irons and four wraparounds (one at each corner) on the entire locomotive, so this isn't a high-volume project.
It's nice having all those commercial products available out there. My problem is I've always taken this perverse pride in being able to model on a zero budget, and the thought that I can look at a finished model knowing how much I did myself using materials I had on hand has an ever-increasing appeal to me. So, tonight is looking like Jig Time down in the ol' man-cave!
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Bending grab irons out of wire is not hard. The trick is to bend up a number of them and have them all look the same. That's hard to do freehand.
Make a jig. A piece of wood, as thick as the grab is wide. Cut a slot to accept the wire. Bend the wire ends down and you have a straight grab. Do it again and you have a second straight grab the same size as your first one.
Having trouble finding a piece of wood the right thickness? Find one that is a little bit large and make it thinner with a hand plane. Or saw a piece to size. Table saw is good at this, but careful work with a hand saw is adequate. Use dividers or calipers to transfer the grab dimension from the shell to the wood.
Need drop grabs instead of straight grabs? First make a bunch of straight grabs. Make a second jig, just a piece of 0.030 " styrene sheet. Drill two holes to accept the straight grab you have just made. Insert the straight grab all the way into the styrene and bend the wire ends over. Presto, a drop grab. the 0.030 inch styrene will give you a drop of about three scale inches in HO. Prototype grabs are usually made of 1 inch tubing. That would scale out to 0.010 inch wire. I cheat and make 'em from 0.020 inch wire which is the smallest size my (not so) local hobby shop carries. They look fine.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Why is making a jig not feasible? How do you think the ready mades are done? Unless you want to spend a great deal of time and waste a lot of wire, buy what you need for the smaller grabs and you will only have to make the larger wrap around grab. Since the larger grab is unique and does not have an identical grab above or below it you don't need to be as fussy to have it look right.
Tichy makes different length and different type grab irons. Perhaps shoot them an e-mail and see what they suggest. I just saw him at a train show here in Cleveland a week and a half ago.
Thanks for the link, Tom. The Tichy grabs look great for the typical case, but check the prototype photo - the longer round grab second from the bottom is still a custom-made piece?
Unless the grab irons are unique in some way or you're determined to fabricate them by hand, I would just purchase what you need/can use from Tichy:
Grab irons
For $3.50 each; why reinvent the wheel.
Now that I have my Proto1000 RS2 back in running condition, I want to add some grab irons to the rather spartan detail-deprived shell (in part to help draw a viewer's eye away from my amateurish paint job). The anchor points for the grab irons are molded into the shell, so locations are set, and I have a stash of wire that's well suited to fabricating the grab irons.
So what's the best method for fabricating the grab irons? Making a jig doesn't seem feasible because of the small sizes and the variety of different shapes I'll need. Having at it with needle-nose pliers and a metal straightedge for bending corners, and just hand-fabricating each grab, seems daunting. Each grab needs four bends made, in three dimensions, with consistent dimensions between the bends. Additionally, some grabs extend around the rounded hood corners. Not sure how to even approach the project.
As always, thanks for any input.