DCC or not

[BRAKIE]

Ok,I had to look at the AT123 decoder..They're talking about the brass  motor contact strips.I see the issue.

I used the AT123 decoders when I was using DCC and really liked the simplicity of the install..No fuss no muss..

 

[rrinker]

 Just passing on what Digitrax said, the harness is discontinued because parts are no longer avaialble. Surely the don;t mean the 9 pin end that connect to the decoder, most ever decoder maker has that, and surely they don;t mean fine fleible wire, every wired decoder has that.

 That leaves only the clips - I suspect sicne the BB line has been discontinued, AThearn prefers to save what stock they have in the old style motor clips to fix BB locos rather than sell to Digitrax to make decoder harnesses. I just checked the ATheanr parts web site and the clips are listed as "TBD" under delivery - so looks like they aren;t selling them direct either. You can still buy some of the old motors - but some are listed as "sold out"

  Like I said, there's nothign special about the harness - you have to take the stock clips off to fit the new harness ones, so the next step would be to use an decoder with a 9 pin connector and wires - DH123, DH163, or other brand liek NCE D13SRJ, or TCS T1, and solder the wires to the clips yourself, using the existing clips. You've now in a couple of minutes replicated a harness Digitrax charged over $7 for. By using a decoder with a 9 pin plug, you can remove the decoder and repalce with a different one, or a sound one, withotu reqiring the loco. Or repalce the decoder with a 9 pin dummy plug and convert the loco back to DC.

                      --Randy

 

[BRAKIE]

rrinker

Get'em while you can though, the Athearn harness decoders and the also seperately available harness have been discontinued because Digitrax can no longer get the parts - I take it to mean that means the clips are no longer available in quantity from Athearn.

 

Randy,Forgive but,like always I'm a mite confused here.

The decoder had ends that slipped over the truck pickup bracket (for the want of a better term I guess) and every BB locomotive has that.

Now is that because the BB line is discontinued?

But,there there's still older BB RTR locomotives that hasn't been upgraded to DCC ready.

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besides the strip of tape, it to swap the top and bottom clips. They are interchangeable, the bottom one just has the extra tab that sticks out to contact the frame, the top one is flat. Swapping them adds an extra level of protection by not having that pointy tab to potentially rub through the tape.

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Wooo! Great information!

Danke!

[rrinker]

 Get'em while you can though, the Athearn harness decoders and the also seperately available harness have been discontinued because Digitrax can no longer get the parts - I take it to mean that means the clips are no longer available in quantity from Athearn.

 However - one look at one and you will see how ridiculously simply it is to just solder the wires from a plain wired decoder to your existing motor clips and replicate this harness. The trick for isolating the bottom of th emotor if you DIY, besides the strip of tape, it to swap the top and bottom clips. They are interchangeable, the bottom one just has the extra tab that sticks out to contact the frame, the top one is flat. Swapping them adds an extra level of protection by not having that pointy tab to potentially rub through the tape.

 Better results can be had by drilling and tapping a hole int he frame and running in a brass screw, as I mentioned. The normal pickup in the Digitrax harness clips on to the headlight post at the front - this post is usually somewhat loosely riveted to the frame and the contact is less than ideal.

                           --Randy

[NP2626]

I tend to grasp onto new technology when it comes along, if I can see the immediate benefit.  My layout was designed when the choices were either DC Cab Control or Dynatrol (a previous system similar to DCC).  I looked enviously at Dynatrol for years!  So, I was very familair with DC Cab Control; but also understood how much more realistic, fun and easier it would be to run trains using DCC; or the Dynatrol System.  What put me over the top for DCC was when Digitrax came out with their Zephyr system.  I felt this system put DCC within my price range and most of the decoders I've installed in my loco collection cost less than $20.00, 5-10 years ago.

 I realize that many might consider my statement: "I tend to grasp onto new technology when it comes along" to be incongruant with some of the topics I have some passion about on these forums.  However, I don't understand the myopathy many demonstrate here, either. 

[BRAKIE]

SKL,Digitraxx is and IMHO the best decoders.

Also,Digitraxx makes a decoder for Athearn BB locomotives that is almost plug and play.

All you do is isolate the motor with double sided electrical tape and then side the decoder connectors onto the locomotive's pickup posts(where that old metal pickup strip made contact) then tape the decoder to the shell.

[Sleep like a kitten (SLK)]

The decoders are Digitrax....

[simon1966]

I sincerely hope that you did not buy MRC decoders to go along with the MRC DCC system?  If you did, we failed miserably in guiding you to the best choice.  Enjoy your DCC system.   You have chosen one of the simplest units to use. 

[Sleep like a kitten (SLK)]

Ok, stop twisting my arm.   I ordered the MRC 0001408 Prodigy Express today along with some harness and DCC decoders for 2 of my blue box Athearn engines.

Thanks everyone for your input and thoughts on DC or DCC.  I feel all of you helped me to make the best choice.   Of course you all realize, this will cause me to have tons more questions.........

Eric

[BRAKIE]

I was DCC and returned to DC only because my past layouts was a one horse operation.

Today I use a MRC Tech 6 for sound and basic CV settings.

As a side note if my ISLs was a two horse operation I would go with a basic DCC system like Bachmann's EZ DCC.

[wilson44512]

It works great. And ya You can program the cv's  

Price

[wilson44512]

I have a bachmann DC system. And i have a small layout 4X8 And wanted a locomotive with sound. so what i did was get a MRC TECH 6 SOUND CONTROLLER 2.0 And with a couple of blocked tracks i can run DC With DCC

[rrinker]

 Absolutely, which is why I always recommend the D13SRJ. It's cheap but it has a 9 pin connector so you cna swap another of the same or even a different brand once it's wired in.

 Bachmann preys on the unwary selling those cast-off Lenz with no features, not even silent running, for $20 when the far superior D13SRJ is only $12. Thankfully I think they are finally done with those junkers, but MRC also has a rather poor quality motor only decoder that sells for way more than the D13.

 Having messed with goofy DC lighting circuits, my preference is always to rip out whatever sort of electronics is supplied with the loco and connect wires directly to the motor, track pickups, and lights. That way I KNOW it's wired right, and I am not at the mercy of someone else's circuit board, which sometimes have mistakes that make no difference on DC but can be fatal to the decoder when swtichign to DCC, or simply take up a lot of space that could otherwise be used to fit a larger (and cheaper) decoder or a speaker for a sound install.  "DCC Ready" is one of those no set definition marketing terms that can mean anything from, it will take longer to get the hsell off than install the decoder to you can plug in a decoder easily, but it will let the magic smoke out the second you put it on the rails.

       --Randy

 

[rrinker]

 For running at the club, I just use basic consistign and set the addresses all the same. I also configure the lights in each unit (easy with JMRI) so that only the headlight ont he lead unit lights up when going forward, and only the ehadlight on the trailing unit lights in reverse. Any middle units, no lights. Consist address is one of the unit's cab address, usually the lead unit. Such is the way of life in a club modeling a specific prototype when everyone has the same models and oftent he same numbers. Plus a few members who don;t pay attention when callign up their locos, so any other form of consisting is typically not allowed. Originally it was because those who don;t use DCC would find it difficult to build and break consists, but the random gerfinkerpoking crowd pointed out a second reason. I did try a command station consist at one show and then on one lapof the layout my train came to a halt, one unit running at speed and the other stopped. Or it seemed stooped, when I gave it a push it was actually going the opposite way. Someone else was not paying attention and called up my second loco and blew right through the consist and steal warnings and took control

 But enough of this esoteric stuff, we're getting off topic. The OP did say actually installing a DCC system wasn't an issue, it was getting his locos converted, if they are worth converting, and if they are fro the early to mid 80's they're quite fine. None should be power hogs requiring special attentions. The Atlas ones from that era were often made by Kato and are excellent runners, very high quality. Occasionally there is a dud - I had a 6-axle ALco that had a bum motor, due to an excess of the glue used on the commutator segments cotating one segment, but it wouldn;t run on DC either, if they run well on DC, they will run great on DCC.

            --Randy

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

cv_acr

That's not "consisting", that just having multiple engines with the same address. (And if your memory's bad, how do you remember what address they're all set to? The standard (and easiest) method is to assign the decoder address the road number on the side of the engine.)

Oh and before I forget, a point. At no time did I say I had a 'bad' memory. You did. I sometimes have a problem with short term memory, remembering phone numbers, decoder addresses, map coordinates and such. Sometimes things in my short term memory seem like parts of a military academy. They just keep falling out. I sometimes can't remember such things from one minute to the next. So if I don't write them down I forget them. That's only been happening the last seven years or so.

[modelmaker51]

My main recommendation is to try out an NCE, Digitrax and any other systems you can find in your area before you buy anything.. I did this and ended up choosing NCE, all the controls and buttons are logically laid out. My club uses Digitrax and after 2 years of using that system, I still find it confusing to operate and program with, my point again is to try out different systems and try to get a feel for them so you can make an educated choice. Both of the systems I mentioned have expanable starter systems for about the same price give of take 20-30 bucks, depending on where you get them. Lenz is another top of the line system that lets you use your old cordless phones for additional throttles. http://www.lenzusa.com/  MRC also has a pretty good system that deserves a look.

And then there is the next step in DCC, wireless control. all the systems I mentioned above can be expanded to wireless control. These all use a throttle/tranciever and a base reciever that then tranmits the DCC signal to the rails via the buss.

And then there's Ring Engineering's RailPro that is wireless-direct. This system transmits directly to a reciever/decoder in the loco. http://www.ringengineering.com/index.html   All it requires is 12 to 20 volts on the track to power the loco and the reciever/deoder (you can use you're old MRC pack for track power). An onboard battery is in the works. Northwest Short Line has a battery powered (rechargable) wireless-direct system http://www.nwsl.com/S-CAB_Radio_DCC_Control.html  Railflyer also has a system http://www.railflyermodel.com/collections/wireless/motor-control These are proprietary systems, but they are NMRA/DCC compatible and can use the eight-pin plugs or be hard wired. We have a guy in our club that went with the RailPro system and runs his equipment right along with our Digitrax powered layout and locos.

So, the point is there are quite a few options now and I believe the future is heading toward the self contained wireless systems, eventually not needing any power or wiring under the layout except for a couple of charging tracks.

[cedarwoodron]

Here's a related question regarding comng to the same fork in the road, DC or DCC: I have pinned down the track for my engine facility/small yard switching layout, which will be integrated into a larger "5x9" type layout in several years when I retire (I hope). The only thing I have done is solder a few switches into a ladder, but nothing permanent, except roadbed has been permanently fixed. Like many others, I have a good-sized stable of older steam and diesel units, but bought a number ( perhaps 8 or so) that are newer (post 2000 production) units that are DCC ready or probably easily convertible ( though presently DC). Now, as I look at things, am I closer to going into DCC at this juncture, and if so, should I plan ahead and start shopping fir DCC, given my status? I would have to start cheap, but then, which system is more forward- flexible and expandable? Cedarwoodron

[jeffrey-wimberly]

cv_acr

That's not "consisting", that just having multiple engines with the same address. (And if your memory's bad, how do you remember what address they're all set to? The standard (and easiest) method is to assign the decoder address the road number on the side of the engine.)

Very easy. The locos of a consist are all set to the same address. That address is the cab number of one of the locos in the consist (not always the first one), the address is also written on the bottom of each loco and I have a list of all my consists with the address listed. Since they're permanently consisted I don't have to program them into a consist when I want to use them. I just keep them parked on a siding until I need them.

[Texas Zepher]

Sleep like a kitten (SLK)

Does it matter which decoder is best for engine manufacture? i.e. Atlas or Athearn

  I say it matters a great deal.   I like to choose decoders that will be easy to install.  I have found that for most Atlas units an easy install is either the Digitrax 165KO or the NCE DA-SR.  For the most part the decoder replaces the factories plastic board that fits over the motor.  The hardest part is the head and tail lights as that center one that uses fiber optics goes away.

I actually also like these two decoders for Athearn units, but the installation is not as easy.  One must use double sided sticky tape or silicon to mount the decoder on top of the motor being careful not to let the motor leads touch the side of the metal motor.

Back to your original post though....  Yes,  DCC is worth it on many counts.  Even if one is only running one locomotive, having constant power to the tracks opens new doors for lighting of trains, signalling, and reversing loop control. 

Unlike many self proclaimed newbies here I have been installing decoders into locomotives since 1979 (long before DCC) with the first CTC-16 system.  That was long before the decoders got small and cheap.  I have yet to meet a locomotive that I could not convert.   Of the ones you might have the Athearn SW7 and Atlas NW2 will be the hardest.

 

[cv_acr]

jeffrey-wimberly

or several locos with the same address can be run together (simple consisting). I use simple consisting. Universal consisting is nice but I don't recommend it for someone with short term memory problems such as myself.

That's not "consisting", that just having multiple engines with the same address. (And if your memory's bad, how do you remember what address they're all set to? The standard (and easiest) method is to assign the decoder address the road number on the side of the engine.)

Consisting is a bit of an extra step vs. DC where you just put engines on the same track and they run, but it's pretty quick to set up (at least on the control systems I've used) and it's really flexible. (Unless of course you program engines with the same address to permanently run together.)

Aside from permanently addressing the engines the same, there's two types of consisting. "Univeral" and "advanced". Neither is more or less difficult to set up for the user. The difference is technical: with "universal" consisting the command station keeps track of it and sends commands to all the engines in the consist. With "advanced" consisting the consist address is stored in a variable in the decoder and the command station just sends commands to the consist address.

[maxman]

jeffrey-wimberly

Sleep like a kitten (SLK)

With DCC each engine has a code.   So can you run multiple engines hooked together with DCC?  With DC you just link them together and go.

Yes, you can. Under DCC you can run several locos together. It's called consisting. Several locos with different addresses can be assigned to run together under a universal address (hence universal consisting) or several locos with the same address can be run together (simple consisting). I use simple consisting. Universal consisting is nice but I don't recommend it for someone with short term memory problems such as myself.

Don't forget advanced consisting.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Sleep like a kitten (SLK)

With DCC each engine has a code.   So can you run multiple engines hooked together with DCC?  With DC you just link them together and go.

Yes, you can. Under DCC you can run several locos together. It's called consisting. Several locos with different addresses can be assigned to run together under a universal address (hence universal consisting) or several locos with the same address can be run together (simple consisting). I use simple consisting. Universal consisting is nice but I don't recommend it for someone with short term memory problems such as myself.

[Sleep like a kitten (SLK)]

With DCC each engine has a code.   So can you run multiple engines hooked together with DCC?  With DC you just link them together and go.

[narrow gauge nuclear]

As noted by another poster earlier, Athern engines with old motors can be upgraded to new motors that will make them run to more modern standards, but that is definitely a "loves labor".  It comes back to just how attached you are.  Even bad modern loco's have more detail than found on some of the oldest 60's Athern products.

I was fortunate.  When I cranked up again, I changed gauges, (but not scales).  Thus, all my old favorites got packed away and put in a closet and I got to start 100% from scratch which I consider a total benefit all around.  This allowed for easy decisions to take advantage of all the modern electronics and motor technology, super-high scale, and the latest in scenics and track advances.  My old HO stuff looks and operated pretty shabby compared to the new stuff.  (except for those old fabulous Atlas diesels.) 

Good luck in going DCC and keeping your best runners in the game.

Richard  

[pascaff*]

Sleep like a kitten (SLK)

  I must say not running some of my older Athearn blue box motives is going to break my heart..   I've had some of those since I started the hobby 32 years ago...

 

  Eric, most of my  BB Athearn engines were purchased in 1980,1982 I converted ALL of them to DCC and just recently converted my oldest, a S.P. GP 9 to a Tsunami sound decoder. They all run great on DCC. I did remoter one, and changed all the sintered wheels to NWSL nickel silver. So if you want to run those older engines, you should have no problems.

   Paul

[tstage]

OP = original poster

Tom

[Sleep like a kitten (SLK)]

Buy the way what's        ( To the OP Eric)     OP??????

[Sleep like a kitten (SLK)]

Ok, It's very clear to me the biggest expense is the starter DCC kit.  If I need to start out with a 150-200 dollar investment, I can live with that.

Today I'm starting to take a good look at the motive power I have.  I'm going to maintenance all my power and see how each one runs.

I think that's going to make the final decision easier.  I must say not running some of my older Athearn blue box motives is going to break my heart..   I've had some of those since I started the hobby 32 years ago...

[simon1966]

To the OP Eric,

Your interest in DCC has been piqued and evidently the responses on this thread have strengthened that interest.  Your understandable concern is the desire to continue to run your older equipment.  As others have said, conversion of Athearn Blue Box and Atlas of the era you speak are quite possible.   But let's be clear here, in both cases you are looking at hard wired installations that require soldering and wiring skills.

Take a look at http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/HO_Search/search.html

The TCS web site has a lot of installation examples.  Browse around on YouTube, there are lots of installation videos on there.  Our old forum buddy Big Al has one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKF7U3ccnco

Someone had mentioned that Digitrax has a special decoder and harness set for Athearn Blue Box locomotives, but this was discontinued back in August, so may not be all that easy to find?  http://www.digitrax.com/news/2012/08/20/athearn-blue-box-wire-harnesses-discontinued/

So take a look at these resources and see if you feel up to tackling decoder installation? 

I have recently converted a pair of older Atlas, one with the Kato drive and one with the Roco drive, these both run really quite well under DCC.