Any more bids for lot # 7,123? OK, then - going, going, gone!
Somebody had to do it...roight?
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
That a pretty good tangent there...
Cheers...
Chris from down under...
We're all here because we're not all there...
This started out as a thread about the price of a Proto GP-9, as seen on the "Bay". Are we into discussing the merits of certain car brands now?
Let´s come back to a model railroading related discussion.
I see very few "bargains" on eBay for Proto GP9s regardless of road names. I've been looking for one for months at the right price. I've come to the conclusion I'll have to dress up my two undecorated Atlas/Kato GP7s.
Scarpia,
Benz builds great cars, no question. Our needs this time around were best met with the "station wagon" and the FLEX is by far the best thought out "station wagon" on the market today.
I simply don't by into all the hype of these new car styles and names, it is BS.
As for front wheel drive, I hate the torque steer - it stinks. And most are front tire eaters.
Simple fact is that from a utility standpoint, the automobile reached its ulimate size and shape in the mid to late 50's and that is why the single most successful SUV has been the Ford Expolorer - it was shaped like a 50's wagon - or a Checker wagon. And that is why Checkers lasted as cabs unitil the 1980's. Had electronic fuel injection come along sooner we might still have Checker cabs, but the auto industry problems of the early 80's did them in.
Cars can/need to do lots of different things for diffeent people. But if you have others to carry or stuff to carry, it is hard to beat simple and boxy for room and comfort. I hate that feeling of sitting on the floor on a boat cushion that so many cars have.
The Flex has a long wheelbase, making its ride superior, and the shape speaks for itself regarding utility.
I learned to drive on this:
And the FLEX is everything that car was plus all todays modern advancements.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, you caught me, the real reason is I have never liked the feel of front wheel drive, and the wife likes it even less than I do. They stopped building Crown Victorias which we drove for over a decade, so we bought an AWD 2008 Taurus and loved the feel of the AWD - so the new car needed to be AWD as well. As long as there are AWD cars, that's what I'm driving from here on out - unless they start building Checkers again. .... I am a bargin shopper, but I don't criticize those who spend more. And I will admit, that there are times when I pay whatever it takes to get what I want. In fact, some years ago, right before the Walther buy out, Proto rereleased the EMD E8's - I paid just a little under full ist to get a set right away undecorated - I wanted them and that was that. Sheldon
OK, you caught me, the real reason is I have never liked the feel of front wheel drive, and the wife likes it even less than I do. They stopped building Crown Victorias which we drove for over a decade, so we bought an AWD 2008 Taurus and loved the feel of the AWD - so the new car needed to be AWD as well. As long as there are AWD cars, that's what I'm driving from here on out - unless they start building Checkers again.
....
I am a bargin shopper, but I don't criticize those who spend more. And I will admit, that there are times when I pay whatever it takes to get what I want. In fact, some years ago, right before the Walther buy out, Proto rereleased the EMD E8's - I paid just a little under full ist to get a set right away undecorated - I wanted them and that was that.
That's fair enough - just having a preference for rear wheel drive (although my experience in winter driving has clearly demonstrated the superior snow handling qualities of a front-wheel drive) is enough for me. I'll admit that the last car we bought 5 years ago also is AWD, as that came either rear wheel or AWD, we opted for the latter living in NH.
We're now driving that car (a Mercedes) on it's 3rd continent - it has run flawlessly in -40 to 130 (f) degree temps, in heavy snows, rains, and sandstorms. Humorously, we don't really need the heated seats, mirrors, or AWD here (although that later does help get off the line). Based on my experiences, it was worth every penny (actually less than your Ford), and I'd buy another in .15 seconds.
When it comes to the hobby, I'm also willing to spend some money if it has value to me. As someone who models a smaller road, the only way I'll ever see some equipment is either a scratch build, custom painter, or brass, and to do any of those "correctly" is never cheap.
Like you, I'm not willing to criticize those who choose to spend the money on their hobby. It's their hobby and their choices.
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
hobo9941 Now then.......how ya feel about those Athearn Genesis $100 cabooses?
Now then.......how ya feel about those Athearn Genesis $100 cabooses?
I'm indifferent since I don't model the Southern Pacific. If I modeled the SP, and was at that point in my modeling of needing them, I would likely spring for a few.
mobilman44 Hi once again, I just can't get excited about how someone else spends their money - as long as it doesn't affect me or my loved ones. Like I wrote earlier, everyone has their own spending priorities and values. That being said, I suspect the buyer of that loco - assuming he actually pays for it - had a good reason for his part in the transaction (even if it was to just beat out the other bidders). Oh, gotta say............ As a Ford man (since my 1957 Fairlane 500 convert with the 312 cu in 4 bbl T-Bird option), I do appreciate Sheldons choice of vehicles. ENJOY! Mobilman44
Hi once again,
I just can't get excited about how someone else spends their money - as long as it doesn't affect me or my loved ones. Like I wrote earlier, everyone has their own spending priorities and values.
That being said, I suspect the buyer of that loco - assuming he actually pays for it - had a good reason for his part in the transaction (even if it was to just beat out the other bidders).
Oh, gotta say............ As a Ford man (since my 1957 Fairlane 500 convert with the 312 cu in 4 bbl T-Bird option), I do appreciate Sheldons choice of vehicles.
ENJOY!
Mobilman44
Those where great cars! And a great engine! I helped a guy restore a 1956 T-Bird years ago.
I drove Checkers and GM cars for years, but in the last two decades its been all Fords and they have been great.
jeffrey-wimberly ATLANTIC CENTRAL: The value of anything is only determined by how badly one person wants it and how badly the other person wants to be rid of it. How many of those do you have for sale? I thought so. So who are you to judge what others should or should not pay? Sure, I get it, you would not pay that. There are likely things you buy I would not pay a red cent for. Absolutely I wouldn't pay that for it. For one it has no dynamic brakes. All mine have dynamics. For another it's undecorated. I don't require that it be undecorated. I could easily locate another model (decorated and with DB of course) and strip it and still come out paying far less. And there have been times in the past when I wanted a model without dynamic brakes and filed them off and filled in any holes. There are alternatives. And who am I to say it? I'm one who frequently builds his own from bits and pieces and modifies as needed. Very rarely do I pay over $100 even for new.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: The value of anything is only determined by how badly one person wants it and how badly the other person wants to be rid of it. How many of those do you have for sale? I thought so. So who are you to judge what others should or should not pay? Sure, I get it, you would not pay that. There are likely things you buy I would not pay a red cent for.
The value of anything is only determined by how badly one person wants it and how badly the other person wants to be rid of it.
How many of those do you have for sale? I thought so. So who are you to judge what others should or should not pay?
Sure, I get it, you would not pay that. There are likely things you buy I would not pay a red cent for.
Absolutely I wouldn't pay that for it. For one it has no dynamic brakes. All mine have dynamics. For another it's undecorated. I don't require that it be undecorated. I could easily locate another model (decorated and with DB of course) and strip it and still come out paying far less. And there have been times in the past when I wanted a model without dynamic brakes and filed them off and filled in any holes. There are alternatives. And who am I to say it? I'm one who frequently builds his own from bits and pieces and modifies as needed. Very rarely do I pay over $100 even for new.
You are welcome to do as you like, personally I'm not stripping the paint off a Proto model or trying to disassemble the details to repaint it properly.
Is any one calling you names for spending the time to strip off paint? But of course it is OK for you to call this guy names because he chose not to do as you would do.
I'm generally a bargin shopper too, I've even posted threads on bargin shopping, but some times you have to pay what you pay to get what you want.
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Odie Sheldon, I am a little disappointed you did not mention your house and lawnmower...it has been almost a week since we last heard about them. Some pics would be nice also.
Sheldon, I am a little disappointed you did not mention your house and lawnmower...it has been almost a week since we last heard about them. Some pics would be nice also.
Odie,
Give me your address and I will send you a video from when the house appeared on the HGTV program Restore America.
You can go to www.mytractorforum.com and see the long running thread on the special work I have done to my tractor that is being duplicated by others for their tractors.
Scarpia ATLANTIC CENTRAL: All cars/trucks here must be AWD or rear wheel drive - come to think of it one is all wheel drive, the other is 4 wheel drive - it snows in the country and sometimes the plows take a while. Sheldon Thanks for that - I haven't heard anything that funny in a long time. Needing AWD in MD for snow....lord, how did I ever survive for decades in Vermont and New Hampshire with just two powered wheels... ps - you do know snow tires are cheaper, and safer, right? AWD does not help you stop faster - good snows will.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: All cars/trucks here must be AWD or rear wheel drive - come to think of it one is all wheel drive, the other is 4 wheel drive - it snows in the country and sometimes the plows take a while. Sheldon
All cars/trucks here must be AWD or rear wheel drive - come to think of it one is all wheel drive, the other is 4 wheel drive - it snows in the country and sometimes the plows take a while.
Thanks for that - I haven't heard anything that funny in a long time. Needing AWD in MD for snow....lord, how did I ever survive for decades in Vermont and New Hampshire with just two powered wheels...
ps - you do know snow tires are cheaper, and safer, right? AWD does not help you stop faster - good snows will.
The other vehicle - a 2000 F150 4x4 - still runs like new at 180,000 miles.
I drove rear wheel drive cars for decades in the snow here, never even needed snow tires once I had radials. My Checker Marathon and and my 1963 Nova did just fine in the snow.
I find it interesting that so many people think this guy paid way too much yet so many on here are busy buying, or promoting the virtues of, the likes of Broadway Limited, Atlas, and other "high end" stuff.
I got my Proto locos MOSTLY at bargin prices - BUT I know they were bargin prices.
No intention to hijack this thread, but ...
Odie - teasing Sheldon requires a post count of 2,500 minimum
In the roughly over three years since I joined, I have seen many threads similar to this one. They usually end up in the nirvanas of locked or even deleted threads.
There will always be people willing to pay a better(?) or higher price for something they dearly want (but not necessarily need). If they can afford that - well, fine for them.
I still chuckle when I see the level at which folks start to complain about prices. I won´t repeat what I have said many times before, but you folks in the US are stilled spoiled rotten, even if prices have climbed up quite a lot in the last year.
I need to go add this thread to the list.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL All cars/trucks here must be AWD or rear wheel drive - come to think of it one is all wheel drive, the other is 4 wheel drive - it snows in the country and sometimes the plows take a while. Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The value of anything is only determined by how badly one person wants it and how badly the other person wants to be rid of it. How many of those do you have for sale? I thought so. So who are you to judge what others should or should not pay? Sure, I get it, you would not pay that. There are likely things you buy I would not pay a red cent for.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Ken!
Great find!!
It just goes to show that regardless of how sore your back is, when in your LHS always bend down to see what others have missed!. When my back was bad I was in the Credit Valley Railroad HS and I got down to look at some stuff on the lower shelves. I thought I might have to crawl out the front door because I couldn't get back up!
As far as the thread goes, I used to own a BMW. It was a 2002tii with mechanical fuel injection. I never owned it for status because at the time there wasn't as much attention paid to BMWs. It was well used when I bought it. I only bought it for one reason - it would go through a corner at speeds which used to make my wife complain of splayed toes!!! It was almost as good in corners as my Mini with a Cooper conversion, but then again nothing can compete with a go kart with a body on it - i.e. a Mini!
To this day I couldn't care less what others are driving be they MB, Lexus or whatever (well actually I could care when they are driving true exotics, antiques or older British sports cars). All I know is that both of our vehicles are paid for (that is until the next trip to the dealer for service) and the are nice to drive (but I try not to point the Honda van into a corner quite as fast as I did with the Mini or the BMW)!
OK - now it is time to stop rambling and remembering the old times.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
jeffrey-wimberly $222.50 for a Proto GP9? Some folks is dumber'n'a box of hammers!
$222.50 for a Proto GP9? Some folks is dumber'n'a box of hammers!
Again, if by any standard a new ATHEARN GP9, DC version is worth $189.98 - than to someone who really wants THAT SPECIFIC loco, $222 is not an unreasonable price for a mint Proto2000 GP9 undecorated Phase II with no dynamic brake.
Again, if that's what you want, what are your other choices? EXACTLY - there are none.
I would not give $1 for a model of a UP BigBoy - does that mean others are foolish for buying them?
NittanyLion ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Having been a shop foreman in a BMW dealership service department, I can tell you that you might be surprised at how many people driving those sorts of cars only live in $500,000 to $1,000,000 homes - which is the low end of the high end in this part of the country. It sure feels weird how casual you can drop "Yeah its not bad. I think its listed at $1.2m" around here. I have a pretty nice apartment with a view and walking distance to stuff so its a little more high end, but I drive a Honda Accord. From the 90s. It sure looks weird next to the Mercedes, Jags, and Porsches in my building. But I'd balk at $222 for anything that's not...like a bicycle or something. Maybe its the Aston Martin, Mazerati, Tesla crowd around here.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Having been a shop foreman in a BMW dealership service department, I can tell you that you might be surprised at how many people driving those sorts of cars only live in $500,000 to $1,000,000 homes - which is the low end of the high end in this part of the country.
Having been a shop foreman in a BMW dealership service department, I can tell you that you might be surprised at how many people driving those sorts of cars only live in $500,000 to $1,000,000 homes - which is the low end of the high end in this part of the country.
It sure feels weird how casual you can drop "Yeah its not bad. I think its listed at $1.2m" around here. I have a pretty nice apartment with a view and walking distance to stuff so its a little more high end, but I drive a Honda Accord. From the 90s. It sure looks weird next to the Mercedes, Jags, and Porsches in my building.
But I'd balk at $222 for anything that's not...like a bicycle or something.
Maybe its the Aston Martin, Mazerati, Tesla crowd around here.
We all put different values on different things. Personally, I would live in a trailer in the woods before I would live in any apratment in any inner city. And I don't have crime phobia or "city fear", I have worked in and aroud Baltimore all my life - I'm just not an "urban" kind of person.
And I live out at the far "edge" of the suburbs in what was once a rural village - and I'm looking to move farther out when we retire and down size. But currently I live in a big, 2-1/2 story, 4000 sq ft, 1901 Queen Anne home sitting on a one acre lot - with a pool and a big detached garage - maybe worth a million, maybe not - but it suits my life style and we will assume I can aford it because it is paid for.
There is nothing wrong with a Honda, they make great cars - but they will never sell me one - they are too small for my needs - except the van - but my Flex is a better vehicle - AWD, better space utilazation, lower CG, more power. All cars/trucks here must be AWD or rear wheel drive - come to think of it one is all wheel drive, the other is 4 wheel drive - it snows in the country and sometimes the plows take a while.
My point about the locos still stands - IF a new ATHEARN GP9 in DC is worth $189.98, than $222 is not really out of line for the undecorated Proto model - are there any other undecorated phase II GP9's without dynamic brakes currently on the market? NO!
Speed cost money - how fast do yo want to go?
The new Athearn model is not "automaticly" better because it is new - my fleet of Protos run great - if ATHEARN released an undecorated version tomorrow I would NOT buy a bunch and replace my already painted and lettered Proto fleet. So on the basis of being that model and being undecorated this loco may easily be that "valuable" to a number of people.
Now days its getting harder and harder to find undec engines, you almost have to have your name in with your LHS the minite there announced. Or you are SOL.
Well, it is out of production so the buyer may have not known where to get another one. If it was something they had to have for the rail road I sort of see it. (Well not really)
I was wanting another set of powered Proto 1000 F3 A&B units. I was looking at them on E-Bay and saw some for $120.00 NIB. I was thinking about it, I knew when they where in production they where only $70.00 a set. But, where else could I get them?
Luckily I went to my LHS to pick up a engine for a friend, looked at the bottom of a display case and saw 12 sets of PK1000's F3's for $69.95.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Having been a shop foreman in a BMW dealership service department, I can tell you that you might be surprised at how many people driving those sorts of cars only live in $500,000 to $1,000,000 homes - which is the low end of the high end in this part of the country.
Photo shows a non-dynamic undecorated shell. I think the non-dynamic is a little rare. Probably exactly what the two high bidders needed to complete a specific model.
Rarity and a bidding war=over $220 for a blue box proto.
Chuck
Well, how much is an undecorated Proto GP-9 worth?
The answer is, "To one person, it was worth $222.50"
Something is worth what somebody will pay for it.
Michael
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
P&Slocal riogrande5761: meh, thats peanuts to some folks. I see so many people around the Washington DC beltway in Mercedes, BMW's and Lexus, they all have more money than sense. Some of them may be bidding on ebay. You may want to rethink this "peanuts" thing. You can almost bet that the same people you see driving on the Beltway in those cars also live in multi-million dollar homes. Given the prices of the autos and the homes, I can all but guarantee that the banks actually own more of that stuff than the people do!
riogrande5761: meh, thats peanuts to some folks. I see so many people around the Washington DC beltway in Mercedes, BMW's and Lexus, they all have more money than sense. Some of them may be bidding on ebay.
meh, thats peanuts to some folks. I see so many people around the Washington DC beltway in Mercedes, BMW's and Lexus, they all have more money than sense. Some of them may be bidding on ebay.
You may want to rethink this "peanuts" thing. You can almost bet that the same people you see driving on the Beltway in those cars also live in multi-million dollar homes. Given the prices of the autos and the homes, I can all but guarantee that the banks actually own more of that stuff than the people do!
Some people choose those cars because "driving" is a big part of their life - they want it to be nice. Others buy them for statis, and others buy them becuae like you suggest, the price is easily managable for them.
Some are leased, some are "mortgaged", some are paid for, just like buyers of more modest autos. I learned some years ago the importance of living in a paid for house and driving a paid for car - unless free finanicing lets me keep my money in the bank.
But the brand has only a little to do with price - have you priced a full sized pickup truck recently?
My wife and just bought a new car, a very practical car for our needs, it cost over $45,000 and it says FORD on the front. Our new car is a Ford Flex Limited AWD with eccoboost - as nice as any BMW I ever drove.
As for model trains - and this Ebay listing - MAYBE, two or more of the bidders NEED this loco to complete a loco set and were determined to have it. After all, it is not like they are making any more just like those.
I have a bunch of Proto GP7's - bought undecorated, for much less - but if I needed a few more, would a pay a little extra to have them match - sure.
If a new one with DCC/sound is worth what ATHEARN or WALTHERS is asking these days, then to the right person this price is only a little on the high side. In fact the DC version of the new ATHEARN model is $189.98 and it does not come undecorated - maybe $222 was a steal?
Back to expensive cars for a bit - generally most stereotypes about people and the cars they drive are based in some fact. In my view, a BMW is not enough better to justify its higher price EXCEPT for the "statis" that comes along with it. Equal or nearly equal luxury and performance can be had for a lot less - but it will not say BMW or MB, or Lexis or whatever.