Randy ...
What you are describing is a slightly different problem than the original problem noted. Your problem is easier to solve. I run short wheel base light steam and they really don't like Atlas turnouts of any generation. The worst of which are a series that had a zinc sliding point which were available in the late 70's but still turn up on eBay. I banned those on my RR before I ever started this latest pike. Most of my turnouts are hand lay and I'm slowly replacing the remaining Atlas with ties and built in place turnouts.
Stuttering and such that you describe is a difficulty in keeping power over the frog. If you have any generation with a cast zinc frog you will need to power it and clean the black finish off of it. Look on the side of the casting and you will find a small hole in a tab sticking out of the casting. It will take a 2/56 thread and then you can bolt the wire to it. You cannot solder to it.
Some Atlas turnouts had powered rails but kept the frog completely insulated. This will fix it but you will need to power it from a turnout machine.
There is another option not noted previously. It is on the latest generation turnouts with the frog rails coming near together in the frog and insulated with a very small slip of plastic as an insulator. It is possible for .110" wide wheels to touch both of these and drop to a short. Recall that DCC is VERY quick and identifying and doing something about a short. The solution here is to take a triangle file and file the center of the junction of the two rails and cut out only the slightest of material. That effectively moves the two rails apart in relation to the wheel tire crossing it.
see ya
Bob
PaulWhitt20 I had the same problem with Kato turnouts on non-power routing. When the wheel goes over the rails just above the frog, the wheel can cause a short between the two differently powered rails. This short does not trip the DCC system. This causes the loco to lose power as both sides of the loco are getting the same voltage.
I had the same problem with Kato turnouts on non-power routing.
When the wheel goes over the rails just above the frog, the wheel can cause a short between the two differently powered rails. This short does not trip the DCC system. This causes the loco to lose power as both sides of the loco are getting the same voltage.
An Atlas code 83 HO turnout won't have this problem like the Katos you have. I don't even think it's possible due to the rail spacing at the frog.
Rob Spangler
SilvertonRR I possibly could be having the same problem. I have the same customline,83 code turnouts. The engines that I run are all a very small diameter wheel, and at slow speeds, they will stall on the long frog. At a higher speed they will go through, but with a jerky, hesitating action. I am also at a loss for a way to fix the problem.
I possibly could be having the same problem. I have the same customline,83 code turnouts. The engines that I run are all a very small diameter wheel, and at slow speeds, they will stall on the long frog. At a higher speed they will go through, but with a jerky, hesitating action. I am also at a loss for a way to fix the problem.
The solution will depend on how you drive your turnouts, and whether or not you use DCC. A Tortoise switch machine has switched contacts which can be directly used to power the frog. Likewise, an Atlas "deluxe" under-table machine has the same capability. If you use DCC, one of those "Frog Juicers" will do the job.
If you use a different twin-coil machine, you can get a small latching relay and wire that in parallel with the switch machine to provide switched frog power. If you have ground throws, I believe Caboose Industries makes one with switch contacts.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
If it's a small looc, even with all-wheel pikcup, anf one wheel is on the insulated frog and the rest are on part of the turnout, like the point rails, it could loose power due to poor contact at the spot where the point rails pivot, especially if the turnout has been painted. It's also very possible that a supposed all-wheel pickup loco, isn't. Loose wires, dirty pickups, or dirty wheels could turn that 8 wheel pickup loco into a 4 wheel pickup loco.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
You can check this as when the loco is stopped lift the side of the truck by the frog up and the loco will restart.
I put a small amount of clear lacquer on the rails where the two different polarity rails are near to each other. Thus the wheel cannot short both sides of the circuit.
This fixed it for me as the loco no longer shorts when the wheel passes over the point where both powered rails are close together.
If all wheels are taking track power why should it stop if one wheel is over a non powered frog, it must be a short from one wheel touching both sides of the track power at the same time.
Try it, It worked for me and you can scrape the lacquer off if it does not help. If you want to try it with sticky tape first you could.
Paul
If it's a manual Snap-Switch, it shoudl have the manual 'switch machine' which will lock it.
My bet is on out of gauge wheels or the loco being too large for the radius of the switch.
Every time I had an issue with a car 'bumping' in an Atlas turnout, it was proven to be the wheels out of gauge when checked with the NMRA gauge. This was with the Cutom-Line Code 83, both #6 and #4, so YMMV. But it is extremely common for any loc that uses a split axle type of wheels to be not in proper gauge. They almost NEVER get pushed together as far as they go - that leads to too narrow a check gauge. The correct position to fit the wheel portion of the NMRA gauge is usually pulled out some. The second trick is getting them each, if its a geared axle. It shouldn;t be one sidepushed all the way in, the other side pulled out to set the gauge, both sides shoudl eb pulled out evenly to keep the gear centered. Otherwise the truck could roll skewed, which will just cause derailments and picked points.
natescarbary You can switch the track by using your finger to hit the "lever" on the side of the switch.
You can switch the track by using your finger to hit the "lever" on the side of the switch.
Are you using anything to lock the points in place, like the Atlas manual switch or a ground throw? Without something to lock the points in place you're asking for unreliable operation both electrical and mechanical.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
I have three engines with sound. All of them tend to have a problem, one more than the others. I did not have feeders on the branches. I only had them on the mainline loop. I will surely take your advice and put in some feeders on the branches, as well. The rail jointers are firmly pressed to fit. The track is glued down. I really appreciate your input!Nate
Since it's a snap-switch, we know it's not a live-frog, dead-frog problem.
What kind of engine is it? Is this a problem with one engine in particular, or all of them?
My guess now is poor power connection through loose rail joiners. Do you have feeders on all the branches of the turnout? Are you depending on the press-fit of rail joiners, or are they soldered?
MisterBeasley Well, yes, but the Frog Juicer (not to be confused with the Bass-o-Matic 76) ...
Well, yes, but the Frog Juicer (not to be confused with the Bass-o-Matic 76) ...
I bet you could still juice a frog in it. One of my favorite classic SNL sketches by the way.
Hello again!
It is an Atlas snap-track switch - Code 83 - Nickel silver. Thanks for all of the useful help. Now... To the layout!
Nate
wp8thsub Depends on how you handle powering the frog. I have some Atlas #8s with the long frog castings, and I power them with Tam Valley's "Frog Juicer" product. Frog polarity changes based on the auto-reversing sensor and is completely independent of the points.
Depends on how you handle powering the frog. I have some Atlas #8s with the long frog castings, and I power them with Tam Valley's "Frog Juicer" product. Frog polarity changes based on the auto-reversing sensor and is completely independent of the points.
Well, yes, but the Frog Juicer (not to be confused with the Bass-o-Matic 76) will respond based on the passage of a train over it, and that will be related to the position of the points, unless the train is approaching from the frog end and a derailment is imminent.
ba&prr Take a OHM Meter and with the track power OFF check the continuity between the point rail and the rail going to the frog.
Take a OHM Meter and with the track power OFF check the continuity between the point rail and the rail going to the frog.
Yes, an open can be problem if there's intermittent loss of continuity through the points and/or closure rails. The symptoms the OP described could be a partial failure of the electrical connection between the stock rail and the point/closure rail - electricity sometimes flows, but it depends of what pressure is applied where and other factors. Using a meter to verify if this is an issue is a good plan.
I[f] this sounds like a lot of work, try the frog juicer from. And make sure the track is really clean.
No need to waste the $$$ on a juicer for loss of power through the closure rails if the frog isn't causing the problem. The point and closure rail should be staying the same polarity all the time on an Atlas turnout, so a simple feeder installation would resolve the open circuit (and the juicer wouldn't have any work to do since there's no polarity reversal or AC out-of-phase to resolve. I've had to do this on a few Atlas turnouts where the stock connection failed.
The loco is not shorting out. If it did the command station would beep.The problem is the frog.Take a OHM Meter and with the track power OFF check the continuity between the point rail and the rail going to the frog. On some Atlas turn outs this is a week point.This is what I did on my layout: look at where the point rails pivot. Are they attached with a round rivet eith a hole in the center? On the Atlas turnouts I use, I drilled a hole through the opening and installed a feeder wire through it. I took a file to rough up the top ot the riviet. I soldered the feeder wire to the bottom of the point rail and the rivet. The other end goes to the track feeder bus.It this sounds like a lot of work, try the frog juicer from. And make sure the track is really clean. Joe
Boise Nampa & Owyhee Atlas uses a tab from each sliding point that clips into a plastic throw bar. These tabs are often bent to the wrong angle. They need to come off of the rail at near 90 degrees. If they are less then the rail falls too close to the stock rail and the locomotive will tag it and go to a short when going through.
Atlas uses a tab from each sliding point that clips into a plastic throw bar. These tabs are often bent to the wrong angle. They need to come off of the rail at near 90 degrees. If they are less then the rail falls too close to the stock rail and the locomotive will tag it and go to a short when going through.
That *theoretically* shouldn't be it. Atlas turnouts have the points and stock rails at the same polarity all the time, and are thus "DCC friendly," or frankly friendly to anything else electrically speaking. Bridging the gap between the point and adjacent stock rail wouldn't cause a short like it does with a power-routing turnout.
The above having been said, the misalignment problem you note with Atlas points and throwbars WILL cause derailments, and derailed wheels can cause a short, for which the turnout would be directly responsible.
Atlas should not need to have a powered frog but you can if you want by threading the cast holes to 2/56 and putting in a small bolt.
I think your issue is the sliding points. Atlas uses a tab from each sliding point that clips into a plastic throw bar. These tabs are often bent to the wrong angle. They need to come off of the rail at near 90 degrees. If they are less then the rail falls too close to the stock rail and the locomotive will tag it and go to a short when going through.
The plastic throw bar can be pried up a bit and slide out the sliding rail. Look into the end and determine the angle. A small pliers will solve this.
MisterBeasleyYou can power the frog, but it needs to be done in conjunction with throwing the points, because the polarity of the frog changes with the direction of the turnout.
What kind of turnout is this? Is is a Customline, or is it a snap-switch?
The snap-switches have plastic frogs. Since they are low-number turnouts, about a number 4, the frogs are short and don't typically cause a power loss when traversed.
A Customline, on the other hand, has a metal frog. It's a longer frog, and sometimes an engine will lose power when crossing the frog because it's not powered. You can power the frog, but it needs to be done in conjunction with throwing the points, because the polarity of the frog changes with the direction of the turnout.
This should not cause a short, but it might be causing a dropout. Is your problem always a short, or do you sometimes just have the engine stall while everything else keeps running?
Although this may not necessarily be the problem, you need to make sure everything is is gauge. That means the rails on the turnout as well as the locomotive wheels.
To do this, you need to check things with an NMRA gauge. The wheels of the loco need to be correctly spaced (in gauge) and the rails on the turnout need to be spaced right (in gauge). And that is normally the first place you have to start. Once these things are checked and verified to be good, and you still have the same problem, we can go from there.
Equipment and track now days seems to be a lot better than years ago, but that doesn't mean that they are perfect. Atlas turnouts have been reliable without any problems for me for quite a while. So have most brands of locomotives. So your problem is not that common any more.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Hello all,
I have a problem on the layout that is starting to get annoying at times. I have an Atlas code 83 - Right hand manual switch. You can switch the track by using your finger to hit the "lever" on the side of the switch. However, whenever I run a locomotive with sound, it shorts out when it goes over the switch. Sometimes the engine stops completely and shuts down the system. Other times, it is like a surge, and then continues to run. The sound will fade out also when it goes over the switch section. I would appreciate any insight. Any ideas on what is causing me all this trouble?