What Would You Do To Improve This Hobby?

[egmurphy]

Tigerious posted:

QUOTE: How about getting the existing pulications put into more waiting rooms like at the doctors offices or car service places. Every time I take my car in for service, I just sit and read whatever magazine is there, but I never see and MRR publications. But then I don't know who would pay for it.

One possibility would be for those model railroaders who don't keep their back issues (I'm told that some people don't [:O] ) of MR or whatever model railroading magazine to occasionally drop off a back issue when they visit their dentist, doctor, etc. Doesn't need to be the current issue, people who aren't familiar with the hobby would be just as fascinated to see an issue from 5 years ago as last months.

Not a major campaign, but it is something that almost any model railroader could do. Well, at least those that chuck out old issues! [:D]

I know that my conversion from 'a kid who had Lionel trains' to a model railroader was the first time I saw an issue of MR. Prior to that I didn't even know that model railroading existed as a hobby.

Ed

[Anonymous]

Why not produce a series, like New Yankee Workshop, promoting model railroading? There must be enough clinics and the like to generate several 16 week programs, and clinics can be arranged to deal with any and all topics. Not a series about build a layout per se, but a series promoting the personal elation one feels when succeeding at a task that is new to them. Teach soldering relative to model railroading. Or building a scenic diorama. Or detailed painting with an air brush. Then mix in some train running along the way, showing how scheduling can benefit running multiple trains simultaneously. Produce these series without total emphasis on model railroading, but make model trains the focal point of everything that is taught/discussed. I think this will work, a subliminal sort of approach, where the trains are always there, but the topic being presented focuses on skills development. Now don't shoot. I only offer this as a suggestion. And how to pay for it? With contributions from manufacturers as suggested in a previous thread.

Tom

[trainfan1221]

Make sure there are more options in all scales, and eliminate those store train sets that have lousy equipment. Not a good way to start a hobby.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjm89

1. Make all MRR products in the USA. This would be a plus to people wanting to get into the hobby, and support their country too! Also more Americans would be employed by the MRR companies, thus maybe making them and their relatives/kids into mrr'ers too! Note I am not counting companies like Peco or Kato because they aren't American companies and should support their country's mrr'ing community as well.

2. Supply enough weights with a car kit so it actually comes up to NMRA standards!!!
This is one of those things that you think the manufacturers could figure out by now...(??)

3. More varied products. We don't need three companies making an HO scale Challenger all at once. There are many, many good, non-USRA engines that could sell well.

4. More decorated plastic kits. Too many companies are losing money on these and are thus discontinuing them, but if we could get about another 100,000 people into the hobby, maybe the demand would go back up for them.

5. "Easy weathering" kits, or some type of kit for developing certain parts of the hobby, for instance a weathering kit might include paintbrushes, paints to simulate different surfaces, and/or weathering powders and useful tips on how to weather.

[#ditto]

AND BRING ALL THE PRICES DOWN! ITS GETTING REDICULOUS!

[cbq9911a]

Some ideas:

1. Get quality train sets into Wal-Mart and Target stores.
The product needs to be where people shop.

2. Get train layout displays into major malls where people shop.

3. Get trains on TV.

[cbq9911a]

Some ideas:

1.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

And please, someone out there invent a real knuckle coupler that looks real, is standardized and works, that's all we ask.

You've got your wish. Such a coupler exists today for HO scale. See:
http://user.icx.net/~sergent/index.htm



The internet is a wonderful place ... all it took was one google search: "model knuckle coupler scale" and the eighth item down was the Seargent fully-working scale coupler.

[tatans]

It must be up to the individual modeler to maintain an air of respectability to the hobby, forget the freaks, manufacturers, etc. and only deal with reliable, ethical, interested businesses, ----keep on keepin' on. And please, someone out there invent a real knuckle coupler that looks real, is standardized and works, that's all we ask.

[bcammack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan

With urban sprawl as a way of life, the car becomes the only feasible mode of transportation. If, as a culture, we moved toward more dense land use patterns, the economic advantages of rail would take the fore. Getting rid of the subsidies to the oil and gas industry would help too.

I think that's a "chicken or egg" issue. We wouldn't have sprawl if the car had not become the purvasive means of personal transportation and the Interstate Highway system had not come into being.

As far as getting rid of subsidies to the gas and oil industries, well, there's an election coming up in a couple months and you can help do something about that. [:D] Honestly, though, I think that the petrochemical industries probably subsidize our political parties more than the government subsidizes them, so any vote one might cast will probably have a negligible effect.

I must add as well that it's difficult to conceptualize "dense land use" looking at Utah, west Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc. The question "why?" keeps popping up. [:)]

[railman]

I'm not sure how to, but we need to change the public perception of the model railroad hobby. Most people either assume it's "kid's stuff" or old guys in a dusty basement counting rivets. Whether or not a large number of model RR'ers fit that bill, people need to feel, dare I say this, "hip."

Hip as in what trains are to people. Today's new modelers are faced with a half dozen "grumpy" Class-1's running big locomotives fast and pulling freight. Not a lot of passenger service to speak of, and all of that lands in Amtrak-land - a nice-but-certainly-not 1939 Hiawatha inspiration, if you get my meaning. Go back even 30 years and you have a plethora of regionalism and railroad idenity that just isn't there today.

In the past, trains were bold, big, and in people's lives. Today, in a nation where some don't know milk comes from cows, trains are just things that get in the way at crossings, because, the tracks don't run everywhere, the company isn't employing everyone in town, and you can't ride a train to many places.

So will trains ever be "Hip?" Judging by what passes for that nowadays, it's probably a good thing it isn't (Rap train, anyone?) But as commuter rail and streetcars come back, maybe that'll be the catalyst for a good rail Rennasance. When people see trains in a positive light, that'll "trickle down" to model railroaders.

We can't beat a PS-2. But we can complement it. Showcase 4 by 8's or starter layouts once in a while, something that can be done on a shorter attention span. Something that could spark interest, and get them started.

If I had to sum it all up in a line- "Trains are FUN!"

[WickhamMan]

Folks,

I don’t think that changing the economics of the situation from the manufactures’ perspective is going to fly. Asking them to “drop prices” and “sell stuff for less but make it better quality” is unrealistic.

Let me pose a question to everyone. Does anyone model horse and buggy scenes? Probably not many. The reason is that it has no cultural resonance for us. We can’t relate to that era or those machines.

On the flip side, let’s take a look at Hotwheels and the myriad of other toy car lines. These sell like hotcakes. Why? Because they have cultural resonance. Kids can see cars every day in their lives and naturally become interested. If it wasn’t for Thomas the Tank Engine, my son never would have had any interest in trains. Let me tell you, that crap is really expensive (car run $10-20 each) for what you get. That sells well also, but on a more limited basis, from cultural resonance (TV tie in).

Looking at the big picture, if you want model railroading to take off, work to change the attitudes of our culture toward land use. With urban sprawl as a way of life, the car becomes the only feasible mode of transportation. If, as a culture, we moved toward more dense land use patterns, the economic advantages of rail would take the fore. Getting rid of the subsidies to the oil and gas industry would help too.

Seeing and riding on trains, as a daily or weekly activity, would increase the interest among children. As America has suburbanized, the cultural resonance of trains has waned. As the hobby decreases in popularity, the costs to those of us still interested in it rise or remain flat. With limited demand and higher marginal manufacturing costs, the suppliers must raise prices to stay in business. Ultimately, this causes a consolidation in the supplier market and even higher prices.

I am doing my part to interest my son in the hobby. However, I think that without a cultural change that embraces the real world in which we have an interest in modeling, there cannot be resurgence in this hobby.

[bcammack]

Help finance a show on either PBS, RFD, or DIY networks that is akin to an "I Love Toy Trains", but focused on contemporary HO and N scale model railroading as an approachable, affordable, and achievable hobby. Light, informative, reassuring and with a touch of whimsey. Like you see with Chris Chianelli on "Radio Controlled Hobbies" on the DIY Network.

A broad assortment of "consumer-grade" rolling stock and locomotives at affordable prices. A level of detail and construction like the IndustrialRail cars, but with good knuckle couplers and lots of choices, including old-time, heavyweight, and lightweight passenger cars. Freight and passenger locomotives, diesel and steam with simple details and mechanicals, but with rock solid reliability. Track such as is offered by Bachmann, Life-Like, and Kato, but with wood-colored ties, gravel colored ballast, etc. and with an assortment like Kato's Unitrack.

Simple, affordable DCC. $10 decoders and $50 controllers.

A youth oriented, advertising supported, not-necessarily profitable "Model Trains" magazine available by subscription for < $20/year. Kalmbach could easily produce such a magazine simply by raiding the archives for entry-level articles and freshening the graphics. Don't succumb to any elitist urges. Light, simple, achievable, fun content. Plenty of graphic content, including cartoons. The whole thrust should be "ain't this fun!" "Hey! Did you know you could do this?? It's easy!"

None of this would be geared towards folks like us.

[Anonymous]

1. Make all MRR products in the USA. This would be a plus to people wanting to get into the hobby, and support their country too! Also more Americans would be employed by the MRR companies, thus maybe making them and their relatives/kids into mrr'ers too! Note I am not counting companies like Peco or Kato because they aren't American companies and should support their country's mrr'ing community as well.

2. Supply enough weights with a car kit so it actually comes up to NMRA standards!!!
This is one of those things that you think the manufacturers could figure out by now...(??)

3. More varied products. We don't need three companies making an HO scale Challenger all at once. There are many, many good, non-USRA engines that could sell well.

4. More decorated plastic kits. Too many companies are losing money on these and are thus discontinuing them, but if we could get about another 100,000 people into the hobby, maybe the demand would go back up for them.

5. "Easy weathering" kits, or some type of kit for developing certain parts of the hobby, for instance a weathering kit might include paintbrushes, paints to simulate different surfaces, and/or weathering powders and useful tips on how to weather.

Just my ideas...

[Anonymous]

Outlaw Talgo style trucks, plastic wheels and cars so light that breaking wind around them knocks them off the rails. Also 8 wheel engines with 4 wheel pickup, Lichen, anything that says Tyco on it, and paper grass matting.[;)]
That oughta clear a lot of deadwood out right there!

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

e) LHS's should have weekend or evening seminars that would teach beginners the basics and others more advanced techniques. Why not have classes a night school?
I'm sure the list will grow quickly

Regards
Fergie

I know that Scrapbook stores have several classes every week. This helps to promote that hobby. The classes are for begineers and advanced and cover a number of different topics.

I agree that classes offered at the LHS would go a long way to help grow the hobby.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironmine

A television commercial? Or am I wacked out?

If all the engine manufactures chipped in. And all the rolling stock people chipped in. And all the track and track accessories people chipped in. Walthers chipped in. Woodland Scenics and other companies like that. Digitrax and NCE and those people.

All contributed money in some fair way, some sliding scale. Into a collective bucket of money, like "World's Greatest Hobby."

Show some home layouts. A giant one, a couple medium ones, a little shelf layout in a small room. HO and N. Show both the diorama aspects and a pure operating aspect.

Put some thought into what cable channel to aire the commercial on, during what hours and shows.

Or would this cost way too much money?

Jim

An excellent idea! (or we are both 'wacked-out' !) With the amount of time kids spend in front of the tube each day this could spark a yet undiscovered interest in many. I know of one child who after seeing a home video of my trains fell head-over-heel into it.
As to who would bear the cost of such an idea I don't know, but it would be in the interests of the manufactures, the hobby stores, the print mediums, and the hobby as a whole if they did.

[Anonymous]

I was intrigued by the suggestion about the "Hogwarts Express" - Hornby have now released 3 different sets based on this model, as well as the loco and cars seperately (seperate cars have different running numbers). Admittedly, the only difference between the releases has been the packaging, but if it brings in "new blood" with each new film...

The locos in these sets are the Hornby Castle Class loco - usually seen in GWR or BR green, though the Hogwarts paint looks very convincing and if/when I get round to building a British OO layout I'll probably buy one - add some details, maybe a little weathering, see how long it takes for the purists to notice! The reviews of this loco seem very positive - it's apparently a quiet, smooth runner that will handle scale-length trains. Hornby locos seem to last well too - I still have my first Hornby 0-4-0 steamer which is now about 18 years old, has been rebodied (original bodyshell got damaged) and still runs well.

I think large scale trains have great potential, especially when equipped with sound. LGB have made workable layouts based on boards not much larger than 4x8, so masses of space is not a requirement. The base-level LGB sets are also pretty cheap when you consider the contents (over here, the base starter sets are priced about the same as the loco from them would be seperately). Their digital starter set (sadly "MTS" not DCC, but they are very good - spent 2 days at a train show demonstrating one for a friend who owns one of my LHS) looks pricey but is very good value - there's enough track and equipment to build a decent layout included. These sets also have sound units, smoke, lights, etc that capture younger modellers attention - my favoured trick at the show was to fill the oil tank on the steamer when nobody was about, then turn on the "smoke" function on the loco when kids were watching - their reactions varied from "wow" to "cool", and other similar phrases! Bear in mind that most of their locos are factory fitted for their digital system (no extra costs for decoders) and I think you have a winner.

I agree with the comment about decent diesels for under $100, however, I feel that we already have these. Proto 1k locos can be had for very low prices and have a good combination of running qualities and detailing. The same could be said of Walthers and the most recent Bachmann products, not forgetting Athearn "Blue Boxes". These are all perfectly usable straight from the box (although Athearn sometimes need specialist couplers, handrails need fitting and painting, etc), and can be superdetailed so as not to appear unrealistic alongside more expensive locos bought later on.

I also agree that it's up to us to improve things. While problems such as not being taken seriously are in part due to the media and other shapers of public opinion, we can change this by being friendly and approachable when showing or discussing our hobby. Above all, I feel, we need to remember not to take the hobby too seriously, as this just feeds the element that pokes fun at us!

[Kimble]

Hi,

As a person returning to this hobby, I'd say more exposure is needed. For example, in my area, Portland, Maine, there is an "Annual Train, Toy & Doll House Show" scheduled in the armory in September. Now, if I hadn't seen it advertised in Model Railroader, I wouldn't have thought this show would include MRRing.

As it is, I've been bringing my only issue of Model Railroader into work and leaving it conspicuously on my desk. You would not know how many people (well, men) stop and say, "You have a train set? I still have my stuff in a box in the attic!" We then chit chat for five minutes about the hobby.

[slotracer]

LOts of ideas, I didn't read everything. Overall the availablity of a variety of quality products is fantastic, easy to assemble kits, RTR stuff. Cost is a major deal, but when you have proto 1000 engines that are a bit less expensive and relaible, as well as atheran blue box some of that is covered I suppose.

Promotion amongst youth (Scouts, schools, libraries) is a good idea. I thoink others noted that without an interested adult, it is hard for the hook to set in on the young though. I think it is easy enough to initially lure kids, the trick is to interest the parent so that it becomes a hobby.

As a kid the bank downtown was famous for a christmas train display, not sure if they do it any longer, I moved from Buffalo a decade ago, but it was a huge draw. Trains and xmas still have a strong linkage.

There are other things you simply can't change, the proliferation of all kinds of other activity choices in life, the fact railroads are no longer a visable and endeared portion of the American clulture like it once was, or even that there is far fewer towns that even see a railroad any longer.

I still think a significant factor that keeps more people from the hobby is our trend to a more mobile society....people move far more often thatn they once did and that has to hurt....it did with me.

I wonder too if the course of the Hobby and the flagship publications have gone too far down the realism, prototype, detail operations path. I was looking at a copy of the old Complete book of Model RR's from the mid sixties by Sutton. Island layouts that were obviously built for running trains and not thought out and planned to the n'th degree were the norm then, but layouts like taht are kinda scoffed at by the model railroaders of today for the most part. If it is not cutting edge, huge, detailed, well planned etc you don't see much of it in print any longer. Maybe a less serious and smaller approach would be warmer waters for the potential newbie.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE



2.Public shows.Stop running trains in the same direction..Add yard switching.The general public can stand for hours watching cars being switch.Run trains at realistic speeds.Bar grumpy operators from the display layout. .Invite adults and kids to run a train.A Athearn F7 or GP7 could serve as motive power..Theres nothing like hands on experience.and above all BE FRIENDLY.The general public will not bite you.But YOU can leave a bad impression affects all model railroaders as being a bunch of stuck up snobs.

4.Clubs.Why at you a secrete society? Hold open house especially around Christmas.Invite Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts to the club..Let them run a train under a members supervision..

The club I belong to does this. We hold open house to the public every Thursday night. Not only do we have a smaller DC layout for kids to run our or their own trains on, but we invite them to run on the main layout with a club member conductor so to speak. We get good turnouts but, still it's hard to compete with PS2, XBOX and Nintendo...they take one one hundreth of the space and provide instant gratification.

[BRAKIE]

Great topic! Great replies.My thoughts
1.Have hobby shops to advertise.
2.Public shows.Stop running trains in the same direction..Add yard switching.The general public can stand for hours watching cars being switch.Run trains at realistic speeds.Bar grumpy operators from the display layout. .Invite adults and kids to run a train.A Athearn F7 or GP7 could serve as motive power..Theres nothing like hands on experience.and above all BE FRIENDLY.The general public will not bite you.But YOU can leave a bad impression affects all model railroaders as being a bunch of stuck up snobs.
3.Shut the know it alls,braggarts and rivet counters up.There is a time and place for that and that is not around the general public..You won't impress the public by bragging on how much it cost or how much time it took to build.Now if ask,then,fine answer truthfully without being bias.
4.Clubs.Why at you a secrete society? Hold open house especially around Christmas.Invite Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts to the club..Let them run a train under a members supervision..
5.Why not donate a subscription of MR or RMC to your local library or local school library..The modeling books you no longer need donate them to the library.You could have a inscription that says "In loving memory of (fill the blank.).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys,I fully believe we are the future of the hobby..Not MR,not RMC,not the manufacturers,not the hobby shops but WE the hobbyist..We must do our part in promoting the hobby on the local level especially clubs..

[espeefoamer]

Make quality diesels available for under $100.00.

[Fergmiester]

MABruce has some positive ideas, some of which I've tried. I've had both Cubs and Scouts down to the basement to check out the layout and I've taken my pack to the local train show on several occassions.

Problem today is the kids have different interests then we did and there is alot more pressure and other distractions.

To attract the kids (and adults) you would have to:
a) destroy any and all computer and video games ever devised.
b) Stop people from putting in 18 hr days at work (compulsory leisure time).
c) drop prices by 10 to 15%
d) Show case some layouts that aren't "professional" in appearance as this may intimidate a lot people.
e) LHS's should have weekend or evening seminars that would teach beginners the basics and others more advanced techniques. Why not have classes a night school?
I'm sure the list will grow quickly

Regards
Fergie

[ndbprr]

Two things draw people to interests:
1. It is enjoyable
2. I could do that.

Since most of us are highly dysfunctional prefering time alone in a basement alone to socializing we need some ambassadors willing to show how simple a 4 x 8 really is to make and then let people grow at their own pace.

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by plane_crazy

I'd vote for making entry (re-entry) into this hobby less intimidating by spinning off a version of Model Railroader magazine targeted at new train hobbyists. As two of my other interests are flying and astronomy, I'd use examples like "Flight Training" magazine which is a beginner publication compared to "AOPA Pilot" or "Night Sky" a really good beginner magazine to compliment the lower end of their main magazine "Sky & Telescope"

In these, I'd concentrate on getting started in the hobby, simple explanations, acronym sections, background sections, easy layouts, low cost models, etc, etc. (y’know I don't know what an F7 is or what EMD stands for, I would like to know, but don't think that is really a pre-requisite for having fun, but if you don't know about half these posts and most of MR doesn't make a lot of sense).

I think that is a GREAT suggestion!!! The engineers around my work of employment banter acronyms back and forth like ping pong balls. One time I counted in an hour meeting more than 30 different acronyms used.! (That's a new acronym every 2 minutes!)

Being a newbie somewhat myself, I can account for the feelings of intimidation over the thoughts of wiring, switches, and track laying. A good teacher or speaker needs to know his audience. For those of you out there with a plethora a knowledge need to graciously share your wealth of experineces with those of us who are lacking. [:)] A regular periodical like the one plane_crazy suggested above would go a long way to help that .

You may be 'plane_crazy,' but you aren't plain crazy. Great comment!!!!

Tom

P.S. Do I get my star yet?

[Anonymous]

How about getting the existing pulications put into more waiting rooms like at the doctors offices or car service places. Every time I take my car in for service, I just sit and read whatever magazine is there, but I never see and MRR publications. But then I don't know who would pay for it.

[Anonymous]

A television commercial? Or am I wacked out?

If all the engine manufactures chipped in. And all the rolling stock people chipped in. And all the track and track accessories people chipped in. Walthers chipped in. Woodland Scenics and other companies like that. Digitrax and NCE and those people.

All contributed money in some fair way, some sliding scale. Into a collective bucket of money, like "World's Greatest Hobby."

Show some home layouts. A giant one, a couple medium ones, a little shelf layout in a small room. HO and N. Show both the diorama aspects and a pure operating aspect.

Put some thought into what cable channel to aire the commercial on, during what hours and shows.

Or would this cost way too much money?

Jim

[Anonymous]

despite high prices, I would not like to lower them as high prices make me work hard to earn money ( bing only 12 ) and this builds caracter, and gives a nice sense of accomplishments. different module standards, somthing like FREMO, might be nice. better quality ?

[Anonymous]

The question is "How would you improve the hobby." The previous question was "What keeps people away form the hobby." How about a follow-on question " What attracts people to the hobby." I occasionally see new members coming into this forum. Why not ask for input such as " How did you you discover this hobby and what about it attracted you?" Maybe this would provide further insight.
I was thinking recently about how people choose leisure- time activities and I identified two defining characteristics: There are activities defined primarily by making things such as painting, sculpture, sewing, restoring old cars and basket weaving. There are others that do not result in any tangible output such as golf , birdwatching, T.V., ball-playing and spectator sports. I am going to guess that the 80/20 rule applies to this categorization so that the majority of people fall into the latter definition. If this is the case, we need to focus on the minority of people who like to make stuff rather than those who prefer mostly to just look at stuff.
just my 2 cents
Bryant