Bill Carl (modeling Chessie and predecessors from 1973-1983) Member of Four County Society of Model Engineers NCE DCC Master Visit the FCSME at www.FCSME.org Modular railroading at its best! If it has an X in it, it sucks! And yes, I just had my modeler's license renewed last week!
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If one could roll back the hands of time... They would be waiting for the next train into the future. A. H. Francey 1921-2007
QUOTE: Originally posted by clinchvalley Originally posted by retsignalmtr most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards. Not true at all. I only use a 100/140 gun to solder feeders to track and never melt a tie. And it is much much faster than using a smaller iron. It all comes down to a matter of personal preference. I agree...I only use a soldering gun as I am very familiar with it and have never melted anything I didn't want to. Works very well for me. Reply Edit mcouvillion Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Northeast Houston 576 posts Posted by mcouvillion on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:32 PM I stumbled across Antex soldering irons about 20 years ago and they are something else. A tiny pencil iron that gets HOT, with removable tips. I had used the Radio Shack pencil irons (they remind me of the old wood-burning irons I had as a kid) and I have a couple of Weller soldering guns. I would never use the Weller gun on soldering leads to track or joining the ends of track - way too much heat and mass. The Radio Shack irons don't have enough heat and mass and the tips are crude. I believe Teffy saw me getting ready to use my iron at a train show once and thought it wasn't up to the task, then got a surprise when it did it's job with a quickness and precision that isn't expected with a small pencil iron. The Antex irons are made in England and there are several distributors in the US. Search Google for "Antex soldering irons". I also use the 60/40 rosin-core solder and a small iron stand with damp sponge for cleaning the tip. As mentioned above, a lot of soldering properly is technique. Practice on old electronics circuit boards, pulling off components and then replacing them. A "solder sucker" is essential for getting the excess solder off before a component can be removed, and for cleaning up your mistakes if too much is applied. Make sure the iron is hot and clean before starting. I find that putting just a tiny bit of solder on the iron before I transfer heat to the part helps in the heat transfer and in getting the solder to flow, but let the part melt the solder, don't touch the solder to the iron. And clean the tip often. Reply dave9999 Member sinceJune 2003 From: Along the Murphy Branch 1,410 posts Posted by dave9999 on Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:10 AM Wow, two responses from Mr. Sperandeo. Thanks for all the input guys, but I am more confused than I was before I asked[;)]. I guess I'll stick with my iron. It works for my situation and I have gotten pretty handy with it. If it ain't broke don't fix it, right? Again, thanks. Dave GO GATORS !! Old layout http://photobucket.com/albums/v491/davegator/ New layout http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v491/davegator/New%20Layout%20Building/ Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 27, 2004 11:15 PM Hey Dave, Just a thought, why not take some solder and a few things to test solder on to the local Radio Shack and ask if they have a gun you could try out. Might save you $20 or so if you find it is not worth the money. Any electronics retailer worth their salt should have a soldering gun in the back office. Good luck Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 27, 2004 9:45 PM I am just back into this hobby again after many yrs away and recently had to purchase a soldering device. I did some research on the Web and talked to experienced people in the hobby and came down to exactly what has been said above - clean parts and good rosin core eg 60/40 and a good source of heat. Various watt sizes are good for different purposes and personal preference. So I bought a Weller soldering iron on a station that is not too expensive - $60CDN - it operates from 5 Watts to 40 Watts. It comes with a stand and a cleaning sponge. And it is important to match to tip size and shape to the work needed and to select the wattage as well that best suites the need. I went to Weller on the Web at Cooper Tools and learned a lot about perparation and care and use of soldering irons. That was a very helpful site. All the Best Phil Trudel Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 27, 2004 1:28 AM Let's get technical here: a soldering iron is a device that is heated by a resistive element, a soldering gun is heated because it is the secondaty of a transformer. Now that explained, let's go into some detail here. Some of the low cost Ungar irons are about 27 watt, however, they are uncontrolled, that is, they heat up to whatever temperature it can. I have measured that temperature with an instrument (a thermocouple) and the temperature at idle is right about 1000° F! Now thaat is hot! It has tendencies to heat the object up quickly and thus burnng off the flux too fast to do a good cleaning job (I teach soldering to the MIL STD 2000 and ANSI J STD 001B) Now lets address the soldering gun. Remember that it is the secondaty of a transformer so that it does have a low voltage present at the tip. THis is not a shock hazard to the operator, but it is a shock hazard to any wirintg that is connected to any controls or electronics. That voltage will destroy any circuits, especially intregrated circuits, and you will never know why. You just keep repascing blown chips, not knowing that the soldering gun blow them up. Now lets look at soldering stations. Weller makes a good temperature-controlled soldering iron that will maintain a good temperature (±10°F) range. It does not insuce any voltage into the tip, in fact, the tip is grounded so DO NOT work on live circuits with this iron. These soldering station are somewhat pricy, about $125, but they are rugged and will last a very long time. There are others but the prive goes up. Just remember that a good rosin flux and a clean tip is always needed to make a good connection. Use rosin-core solder for best results avoiding any silver as an alloy. 60/40 solder will work just fine. Silver requires more heat and is tricky to flow correctly. Remember to let the part melt the solder, not the iron. The iron is the source of heat only, the part must melt the solder. Reply Edit Sperandeo Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,300 posts Posted by Sperandeo on Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:18 AM Too small an iron will end up melting more ties than with a bigger iron or gun. That's because time is a factor, and the longer it takes to heat the rail to a temperature that will melt solder, the more time heat has to travel along the rail and soften ties. That's why a tool that can transfer heat quickly works best, and for that size matters. And remember, if the rail isn't getting hot enough to melt solder, you're not soldering. When you just dab on melted solder it doesn't make any chemical bond. So long, Andy. Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 26, 2004 3:25 AM Hey fellas . For an excellent article on soldering visit the site below http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm Ken. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 26, 2004 3:16 AM The main point in soldering is cleaning and"tinning" the parts to be soldered. If it is not clean you are wasting your time. I have used 10lb irons on roofing but for model railroads I use a 35W Weller pencil iron. Very fine tip for decoders. a little heavIer for rails. Small chisel point is very good. also. After tip is hot I dip in rosin and wipe on damp sponge before applying solder. I also use kesters for cleaning but WASH OFF. KEN I've been soldering since 1950. Reply Edit Dayliner Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: CN Seymour Industrial spur 262 posts Posted by Dayliner on Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:40 AM I've been thinking about getting an iron because I'm consistently melting ties with my Weller 140/100 W gun. And this is doing everything by the book: cleaned and tinned tip, flux applied to clean rail and feeders. Mind you, I'm in N scale and using Peco "code 55" track (code 80 embedded in the tie strip) so the plastic presumably heats up right along with the metal. Any suggestions, or is this just the cost of doing business with this type of track? Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:52 PM i have a weller 40 watt soldering station iron that i use for everything. its great for all the train needs i have plus all the electircal crap i work on. i also have a weller gun, but use it very rarely. its bulkyer and and not as easy to use. its nice for when i go places and don'd wanna cart my whole iron stuff... aka last holloween i was useing it at a friends for a haunted house.... so yeah... i like the iron but thats just cause its what im used to from electronics. the gun may be better for lager scale track and such. i have never worked with those. Reply Edit ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:04 PM I used an iron(45 watt Craftsman) for years, and just bought a 100 watt gun from Radio Shack a couple of months ago($13 on sale). I absolutely love it. I find it easier to control than the iron, but the biggest thing I like about it is the speed at which it heats up and cools down. It's ready for use within 10 seconds(unless I'm soldering something big), and cool to the touch within 2 minutes. This is especially nice when I' m used to waiting 10 minutes for my iron to heat up, and another 20 after I'm done to put it away. Also, I use mine frequently enough that I leave it pluged in all the time, and this saves me the hassle of having to climb onto the floor and plug an iron in. I have used my iron about 3 times since I bought my gun, and those were only in situations where the gun was too big or put out too much power. I also still have a little 15/30 watt iron for doing electronic work, but it gets used even less frequently than the 45 watt iron. Keep in mind that I'm into 3-rail O, so a large gun is more apropriate for soldering rails than is a small iron. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply retsignalmtr Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Westchester NY 1,747 posts Posted by retsignalmtr on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:46 PM i don't know about those butane flame soldering irons. if you want cordless portability then there is a cordless rechargable soldering iron that only heats up when you push a button. it is made by wahl. i have one of them and it heats up fast and you can work under layouts with no cord. just replace it in the charger and it will always be ready. Reply dave9999 Member sinceJune 2003 From: Along the Murphy Branch 1,410 posts Posted by dave9999 on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack What isn't an iron doing for you that makes you consider acquiring a gun? Nothing. The iron does the job just fine. I just thought that a gun might do the same job quicker and easier. As I said, I have never used a soldering gun, so I didn't know if one was better than the other. Dave GO GATORS !! Old layout http://photobucket.com/albums/v491/davegator/ New layout http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v491/davegator/New%20Layout%20Building/ Reply brothaslide Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Southern California 743 posts Posted by brothaslide on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:00 AM Dave, A soldering iron flattens the solder while a soldering gun shoots the solder out. . . Just having some fun with ya' I prefer a soldering iron becuase I can have better control applying the solder. It's more esay to control holding an iron like a pen vs. holding a soldering gun . . .well. . . like a gun. Good luck Reply Fergmiester Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Out on the Briny Ocean Tossed 4,240 posts Posted by Fergmiester on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:54 AM I use to do a lot of detail doldering in my shipbuilding days. Yes technique is crucial but so is the amount and duration of the heat applied. Too much heat and it crumbles, then you use a heat sink and then you don't have enough heat. I've got three soldering irons 25, 45 and 100 watt and a gun and what a pain. I'm seriously looking at a variable heat soldering pen. Expensive but I believe this maybe the answer to most of my woes. The nice thing about the Weller unit is it comes with it's own work station/stand. Regards Fergie http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=5959 If one could roll back the hands of time... They would be waiting for the next train into the future. A. H. Francey 1921-2007 Reply Sperandeo Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,300 posts Posted by Sperandeo on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:56 AM "It's all technique," Brett Cammack wrote, and I agree with that. However, I use a Weller heavy-duty dual-heat soldering gun for most trackwork, including building turnouts and soldering feeders disguised as spike heads to the base of the rail. The gun heats up quickly, is heavy enough to let me get in and get out quickly, and like Dave Nelson I don't have to worry about what it might be burning when I'm doing something else. I never melt the ties, but that's because my ties are sugar pine! I have used the same gun when working with flextrack, though, and again the ability to heat the work quickly avoids melting ties. One key to that is to make sure the work (rails, wires, whatever) is CLEAN. I've also used carbon-electrode resistance soldering tweezers on flextrack, the Triton rig sold by Micro-Mark. They can make joints almost instantly, which is great, but lugging around the separate transformer can be awkward. Hot-Tip or American Beauty resistance soldering tweezers might be even better. So long, Andy Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine Reply bcammack Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 403 posts Posted by bcammack on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:34 AM It's all technique. I use a Weller 25-watt with a chisel tip. Soldering joints and feeders on Code 80 N scale track is quick and easy. I don't melt ties and I don't use paste flux or heatsinks, either. [:)] Regards, Brett C. Cammack Holly Hill, FL Reply ClinchValleySD40 Member sinceJune 2001 From: Holly, MI 1,269 posts Posted by ClinchValleySD40 on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:11 AM Originally posted by retsignalmtr most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards. Not true at all. I only use a 100/140 gun to solder feeders to track and never melt a tie. And it is much much faster than using a smaller iron. It all comes down to a matter of personal preference. Larry http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40 http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/ http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:04 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by retsignalmtr most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards. [#ditto] I have a gun, but its so big and clumsy its like trying to shoot bottles off a fence with a Howitzer! Want to spend money on something VERY handy? For about 20 bucks, (from Radio Shack) a butane powered cordless Iron, great for soldering under the layout, without dragging a cord with you!!!!! Reply Edit bcammack Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 403 posts Posted by bcammack on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:54 AM What isn't an iron doing for you that makes you consider acquiring a gun? Regards, Brett C. Cammack Holly Hill, FL Reply retsignalmtr Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Westchester NY 1,747 posts Posted by retsignalmtr on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:26 AM most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards. Reply dknelson Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point) 11,431 posts Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:16 AM What I like about the gun is that I can set it down and leave it plugged in and not worry about it. My track record with irons (and with wood burning tools which are similar) is not so great. Having said that I think it is a bit earier to tin an iron than the tip on a gun. Geezer's moment: junior high school industrial arts where we learned to solder using true irons which were heated over open gas flames, pure lead solder, and acid paste flux that looked like jelly. Thank you Mr Karman (long since deceased I am sure since he would now be about 100 years old) Dave Nelson Reply 12 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online Coastie71 see all » Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Originally posted by retsignalmtr most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards. Not true at all. I only use a 100/140 gun to solder feeders to track and never melt a tie. And it is much much faster than using a smaller iron. It all comes down to a matter of personal preference.
Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack What isn't an iron doing for you that makes you consider acquiring a gun?
Originally posted by retsignalmtr most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards. Not true at all. I only use a 100/140 gun to solder feeders to track and never melt a tie. And it is much much faster than using a smaller iron. It all comes down to a matter of personal preference. Larry http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40 http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/ http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:04 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by retsignalmtr most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards. [#ditto] I have a gun, but its so big and clumsy its like trying to shoot bottles off a fence with a Howitzer! Want to spend money on something VERY handy? For about 20 bucks, (from Radio Shack) a butane powered cordless Iron, great for soldering under the layout, without dragging a cord with you!!!!! Reply Edit bcammack Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 403 posts Posted by bcammack on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:54 AM What isn't an iron doing for you that makes you consider acquiring a gun? Regards, Brett C. Cammack Holly Hill, FL Reply retsignalmtr Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Westchester NY 1,747 posts Posted by retsignalmtr on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:26 AM most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards. Reply dknelson Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point) 11,431 posts Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:16 AM What I like about the gun is that I can set it down and leave it plugged in and not worry about it. My track record with irons (and with wood burning tools which are similar) is not so great. Having said that I think it is a bit earier to tin an iron than the tip on a gun. Geezer's moment: junior high school industrial arts where we learned to solder using true irons which were heated over open gas flames, pure lead solder, and acid paste flux that looked like jelly. Thank you Mr Karman (long since deceased I am sure since he would now be about 100 years old) Dave Nelson Reply 12 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online Coastie71 see all » Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
QUOTE: Originally posted by retsignalmtr most soldering guns are too big for soldering on the rails (100 -150 watts). all you need is a 40 watt iron such as a weller pencil iron. they have different tips that interchange easily . i have 3 weller 40 watt irons and have several different tips for them from 1/4" down to 1/16". they work well for soldering feeders to rails and to buss wires as well as pc boards.