Drive on the right?

[Anonymous]

This may be a dumb question, but for the life of me I can't remember -- do trains in the US "drive" on the right or the left of a double track main? I mean, of course, where the double tracks are for trains going in the opposite direction, not a passing siding on a single-track main where the slower train usually goes into the hole.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsalemi

This may be a dumb question, but for the life of me I can't remember -- do trains in the US "drive" on the right or the left of a double track main? I mean, of course, where the double tracks are for trains going in the opposite direction, not a passing siding on a single-track main where the slower train usually goes into the hole.

Generally speaking, trains operate on the right hand track in double track territory. The former C&NW was built by British capital and was designed for left hand running on double track. Whether or not that's been changed, I don't know. There are instances were left hand running is only "partial". For instance, BNSF/UP use the left hand track on Cajon Pass because it was the second track built and is on an easier grade uphill. However, they go back to right hand running at a flyover called "Frost, just outside of Victorville, CA.

Andre

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: The former C&NW was built by British capital and was designed for left hand running on double track.

British capital had nothing to do with the late C&NW's left handed running. According to Knudsen's Chicago and North Western Steam Power, the situation was a result of the addition of double track after stations had been built on the north side of the track, and the early development of commuter service in the Chicago area.

[twhite]

Another example: SP's Donner Pass crossing between Roseville CA and Sparks, NV. When the 2nd track was added early in the 20th century, it resulted in 'left-hand' running between Rocklin and Colfax, CA, due to several fly-overs from the gradient on the new line. Things were 'normal' between Colfax and Norden--at Donner Pass--where the new line ducked under the original line via a 2-1/2 mile tunnel. It was 'left hand' running from there into Sparks, about forty miles. Today, the original line over Donner Pass has been abandoned over the summit (though UP has promised to rebuild it for the past 8 years) and trains use the 'new' line through the tunnel under Donner Peak. Back when I was a kid and about 40+trains were using the Donner Pass line per day, it was fun to sit and watch trains at Wiemar, CA, just west of Colfax, where the two tracks briefly ran parallel, though on two different levels. You just never knew WHAT was coming and on WHICH track.

[DSchmitt]

Many double track lines are set up with signals for both directions on both tracks for more flexibility in operation so that trains are not unnessairly delayed when using the opposing track.

[Anonymous]

Ok, thanks -- so the answer is "usually on the right", but like everything else in the prototype there are legitimate exceptions.

The reason I asked is because I may have a section of double-track mainline on my new u-shaped layout, which at this point I'm designing as basically a dogbone with the loops stacked on the left side. The top loop won't really be double track, since one leg is climbing the mountain and the other runs along the mountain before dropping back down to ground level further on. But there will be short stretch of double-track (also serving as a reversing track) along the front of the layout going to the lower loop. However, for operation sake it would probably work better to have the trains run on the left track for that short distance. Especially since there'll be a stub yard on the right side of the U that I'm hoping to design so trains can leave in either direction.

Of course, I could also reverse things and stack the loops in the right corner, which would solve the wrong-side problem (and maybe some others as well), but I didn't want to be too far off if I did things "backwards".

[barrydraper]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

Many double track lines are set up with signals for both directions on both tracks for more flexibility in operation so that trains are not unnessairly delayed when using the opposing track.

To a professional railroader that is called "Two Main Tracks" not "Double Track". Double Track is defined in the rule book (GCOR) as "Two main tracks where the current of traffic on one track is in a specified direction and in the opposite direction on the other." So, two tracks are only considered "Double Track" if so specified in the Timetable, and then each is used in one direction.

Barry Draper

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by barrydraper

QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

Many double track lines are set up with signals for both directions on both tracks for more flexibility in operation so that trains are not unnessairly delayed when using the opposing track.

To a professional railroader that is called "Two Main Tracks" not "Double Track". Double Track is defined in the rule book (GCOR) as "Two main tracks where the current of traffic on one track is in a specified direction and in the opposite direction on the other." So, two tracks are only considered "Double Track" if so specified in the Timetable, and then each is used in one direction.

Barry Draper

I always wondered why the Southern Pacific timetables had 2MT and DT listings.

[Anonymous]

At Cajon Pass between San Bernadino´s A-Yard / 5th Street and the flyover at Frost near Victorville the normal operation direction is lefthand.

From Cajon up to Summit the gradient of the old (South) track is a maximum of 3.0 % the new (North) track is only 2.2 %.
So the trains use the left tracks.

From Frost to Barstow the line is "normal" righthand operation.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AltonFan

QUOTE: The former C&NW was built by British capital and was designed for left hand running on double track.

British capital had nothing to do with the late C&NW's left handed running. According to Knudsen's Chicago and North Western Steam Power, the situation was a result of the addition of double track after stations had been built on the north side of the track, and the early development of commuter service in the Chicago area.

I'm sure the Brit financiers wouldn't have allowed a single penny to be spent simply because of Brit rail practice, whether right or left running. I was told by a steam-age British railway fan that the British railways (such as the LNER, GWR, LMS and Southern)varied, some running left others right. The "Dominion of Canada", an ex LNER 4-6-2 located at the Canadian Railway Museum near Montreal, is configured with the engineer sitting on the left.

[:)]

Isambard

[twhite]

Jsalemi: Go right ahead, nobody's going to jump all over you, and if they do, tell them that there's an off-stage flyover in the mountains. My model RR is based somewhat on the SP Donner Pass route and has a lot of left-hand running. Of course my fly-overs are 'on stage' so to speak, so nobody comments. If it makes you feel any better, I grew up thinking left-hand running was the 'norm,' from my early train-watching experiences in the Sierra. Best of luck to you.

[ndbprr]

The big four yard (Avon?) in Indianapolis is on the south side of the main and is a major yard. Westbound trains entering the yard - nearly all of them - cross to the south main at the Union Station tower in downtown Indy and travel west wronghanded for 5-10 miles to make yard entry easier. This continues to this day as far as I know. It certainly was true through Conrail ownership.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

Jsalemi: Go right ahead, nobody's going to jump all over you, and if they do, tell them that there's an off-stage flyover in the mountains. My model RR is based somewhat on the SP Donner Pass route and has a lot of left-hand running. Of course my fly-overs are 'on stage' so to speak, so nobody comments. If it makes you feel any better, I grew up thinking left-hand running was the 'norm,' from my early train-watching experiences in the Sierra. Best of luck to you.

Thanks! Since I'm mostly going to be the only one who sees the layout in action on a daily basis, I don't really mind being un-prototypical, but I was curious which side is 'right.'

But like anything else, asking the question got me to thinking about solving the problem a different way, and I've realized that if I flip one end of the dogbone by crossing the center tracks over one another, I end up with the trains running on the "right" side, and solve some other problems I was trying to sort out. Of course, that means I'm now on version #38 of the mainline plan, but isn't that part of the fun? [:D]