While I was hoping to get an answer to my questions, I also want to get going with this project; so, I've decided to just take a small area at a time and do the rock work similar to how I've always done it.
Thanks to everyone!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I hate Rust
I do some of my castings a little different.
First, I use crumpled up aluminum foil as the mold. Crumple up the foil as much or as little as you want. Less crumple makes bigger rocks. Pull it open leaving the rock detail and bend up the sides so it will hold the plaster mix. Pour the plaster in and let it set to the same point you would for a rubber mold. Apply it to the layout the same was as for a rubber mold. Let it set, also the same way. Then pull the foil off.
Once I pull the foil off, I take a dental pick and scribe / score all the lines or cracks, or where I want the cracks and fissures to be on the casting. This makes them deeper in the casting.
For plaster, I use molding plaster, casting plaster, or Plaster of Paris. Hydrocal is too hard for carving.
Add salt to the water to speed up the setting of the plaster. Add vinegar to slow it down.
The following link is to a photo of what this looks like. Sorry I couldn't insert the photo here. The area to look at is above the caboose on the left.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2404859190104961028TAylzS
I haven't tried it yet, but I think you could press strata lines into the wet foil mold just after applied to the layout with a thin type object if you wanted.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I carved ground goop. It went fairly quickly, even for an impatient guy like me. Had been less impatient, I would have improved this considerably. Point is, the material is easily shaped.
I experimented with ceiling tile for igneous rock:
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/volcanic_rocks/
Thank you if you visit
Harold
NP2626 Only 11 responses to what I would think to be very peratainent and relivant questions on scenery and 4 of those reponses are from me! On Thursday evening, I found a video here at Trains.com that showed somemone carving rock strata into plaster. All I used as a title for the search was "Rock Carving"! Frutratingly, I can not get back to that video? I would think a search on the topic, would reveal hundreds of threads and videos on carving rock scenery! This information (or, lack thereof) leads me to believe there are very few people actually carving rock scenery anymore! Thanks to those who've responded!
Only 11 responses to what I would think to be very peratainent and relivant questions on scenery and 4 of those reponses are from me!
On Thursday evening, I found a video here at Trains.com that showed somemone carving rock strata into plaster. All I used as a title for the search was "Rock Carving"! Frutratingly, I can not get back to that video?
I would think a search on the topic, would reveal hundreds of threads and videos on carving rock scenery! This information (or, lack thereof) leads me to believe there are very few people actually carving rock scenery anymore!
Thanks to those who've responded!
I think you'll find, as you spend more time here, that weekdays are actually more active than weekends.
For myself, I'm spending a rare Sunday morning on the PC. Not only do I compete with three boys (both homework and entertainment), but I have too many other demands on my spare time to do this very often. It's warm enough out today that outdoor work is calling (lots of downed trees to clean up and stone walls to repair), and I'm still trying to get a couple fo woodworking projects done and find some time for my layout.
While I use rock castings for individual rocks jutting out of otherwise smoother landscape (a lot of that in New England), all of my rock faces -- stratified or not -- are made in the same way. I apply a layer of Sculptamold about half an inch thick over the underlying structure (foam or plaster, depending on where on my layout it is), then smooth the face with a putty knife. Then, using either the edges of the putty knife, or a palette knife (basically, a long, thin putty knife), I carve depressions, cracks, overhangs, stata lines, ledges, etc. By working in areas of about 2 square feet, I keep the Sculptamold from hardening too much while I work it. If you use sufficient water when mixing, and mix it thoroughly, using the edge of the palette knife, you can eliminate the lumpiness on your surfaces (misting with wet water prior to smoothing with the putty knife also helps).
So let's take El Capitan:
All that detail is easily worked in with the palette knife. You can even scoop in and build up for those noses in the center (or just add more Sculptamold). The smoother appearing area to the right really isn't all that smooth, but you achieve that look simply by scoring the surface with your knife, rather than actually gouging.
Take another example (from the Shawangunk Mountains in New York):
Again, simply scoring the Sculptamold rock face with your palette knife (horizontally and vertically) will create that blocky appearance. The nose to the right and the overhang in the center can be carved when the Sculptamold is almost set up, or carved in or added on later.
It is not necessary to make extremely deep indentations. Using a black wash (I use 1 part flat black acrylic to 10 parts thinner) will make them look much deeper.
Easily said, I know, but it really doesn't take much more than a couple of hours of practice and you'll be able to reproduce each type of rock face shown above.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Another alternative, not mentioned yet, is carving of the extruded foam. Arthill, has done quite a bit of this with fantastic results. If he doesn't jump in. Check out some of his work. I beliece he has a link in his signature. Carving/ shaping the foam may give you the texture needed for that granite. I don't use this method, as my work is done on a club layout where the features need to stand up to some use/ abuse. With foam, I would be always touching up spots that got damaged from curious poking and picking.
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a235/ARTHILL/
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
So, a question I am looking for input on; is the use of W.S. Mold -a-Scene plaster. Is this a good product? I suspect it is, seeing as the rest of Wodland's stuff is great! Still I would enjoy hearing from someone who has actually used it!
I have done extensive carving and used lots of molds over the years. I would suggest that you find some molds that you like, given the area that you are looking to cover.
Half dome and El Capitan are very unique rock faces (I have climbed the cables at Half dome and spent lots of time hiking around the bases of both rock walls).. They are composed of exfoliating granite slabs. I haven't seen too many molds that capture the look and feel of these rocks but I'm sure that you might be able to find some that come close (or close enough). I am doing some granite on the current layout and if I can't get molds to look right, I am considering going back to carving it to get "the look". I am also going to try airbrushing to get the pebbly coloring texture so common to granite in the Sierras.
Carving: I used hydrocal. Applied pretty thickly (almost set) to a sturdy hard shell and then carved with a chisel and utility knife. Speed is of the essence as the hydrocal sets to stone in about ten minutes. I found that I could carve about a square foot of rock in a couple of hours (one evening's work). Lots of fun and very therapeutic. Made a huge mess and took over two years to carve all the rocks on the layout. I recommend hydrocal or casting plaster for this process. Both can be purchased economically in 50 lb. bags at the builder's supply store that sell lath and plaster supplies (there is usually one in each town). On the new layout I decided to use molds instead to speed things up.
Here is a shot of a canyon that I carved on the last layout::
Molds: Casting plaster in rubber molds until almost set and then applied to a hardshell base. The edges need to be touched up. The trick with molds is to get the rocks to flow naturally from mold to mold to give the impression of a unified wall. You must also disguise the mold so we don't see the same signature rock repeated over and over (if you are using just a few molds). There are already some great examples of molds in this thread.
Here is a shot of one my walls from the current layout usign molds (coloring is not complete in this shot):
Coloring: This one can be a bit tricky because you can't get the rocks too dark, especially if you have large rock faces. They just look wrong for some reason. Start light and gradually go dark. If you Aren't sure, wait a day and come back to it. I use washes and dyes in various combinations and I always test on a spare casting to check for color before applying to the wall.
Good luck with the project,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
NP2626.... My rock strata is made with layers of broken plaster. I break flat pieces of plaster and then "pancake" them onto each other using consturction adhesive. I fill the empty spaces with spakling compound. Then, I apply numerrous thin washes of acrylic paint mixe with water. I allow each wash to dry before applying the next wash.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Very nice rock work bogp40! Thanks for the link!! This might be exactly what I'm looking for!
You seem to be experienced w/ castings and their placement. I was at this stage once taking on such a task. The problem w/ individual castings, as you probably have found, is that many of the molds show differt type of rock/ stratta. Just "plopping" on all differnt castings on such large areas will still have that patchwork look even if the painstaking fillin chunks and carving are done.
There is natually worn faces and outcroppings as well as cut/ blasted rock. Since you mention the El Capitain this would be more to the worn cragged rock. I had one area to do that was over 10ft long and well over 12-14" in hight. This is cut rock and the work involved to do this in Hydrocal would have been way to tough. I decided to use the Cripplebush rubber rock. Flipping and fitting the 2 different castings made doing this cut quite simple and was done in a few evenings. This may be an option for you.
Later finished pics
These may noy be suitable for your use, however they offer various types of castings that may work.
http://www.cripplebush.net/santa-fe/santa-fe-category.htm
CTValleyRR The only question I have for you is how are you distinguishing between "stratified rock detail [in] sculptamold covered areas" and "rock faces"? I'm thinking that's pretty much the same thing.
The only question I have for you is how are you distinguishing between "stratified rock detail [in] sculptamold covered areas" and "rock faces"? I'm thinking that's pretty much the same thing.
First of all, I'm not using foam as a base for the scenery, I have used Cardboard strips in lattes form with paper towels dipped in plaster and the commercially available plaster cloth as the base.
Also, I'm not distinguishing between stratified rock and the cast rock moldings I've planted on the other cliffs and outcrops I've already installed. I have used Sculpt-a-mold to "butter" the rock castings I've installed, pressing the castings on hard enough so that the Sculpt-a-mold oozes out from under the casting, giving something to carve and connect to the other castings so the whole looks mated together.
I think I understand the processes of making stratified rock and using rock castings good enough to get by. What I am really looking for is information on carving rock faces that are not stratified or molded. Wondered if people had links to videos; or, good discussions on carving rock faces and the products used in that process.
Plaster sets to fast, Sculpt-A-Mold has too much texture, etc...
Has anyoone used Woodland Scenic's Mold-a Scene plaster? Is it nice stuff to work with.
I think Simon's instructions cover it pretty well. The only question I have for you is how are you distinguishing between "stratified rock detail [in] sculptamold covered areas" and "rock faces"? I'm thinking that's pretty much the same thing.
Basically, though, it is the vertical and angular scoring with the edge of a putty knife or palette knife that produces the details; paint just brings them to life.
I went to a clinic a couple of year back by Doug Foscale of www.foslimited.com and really thought that he had produced a DVD with his rock carving techniques. A quick browse suggests that possibly his methods are buried in the water front DVD. Anyway, the key really is to jump right in, which you have already been doing. Since you have a particular location in mind work from photos so that you can get the strata correct (if it exists) and think about how nature actually erodes rock when creating cracks and fissures.
The basic technique that was taught was
1. Rough out the basic shape with foam. Break bits off, glue bits on etc to get the shape.
2. Fill in all the joints between foam sections to make things merge, using the plaster.
3. Have handy all the tools you want to use to create the cracks etc.
4. Work on the damp plaster as it is drying, spray water from a bottle to keep it damp.
5. Work quickly for the basic shapes and major cracks
6. Add detail cracks when satisfied
7. Spray an India ink or black wash to put contrast into the fissures and cracks
8. Spray or dab on with sponge the main colors you want to use
9. Add more black spray
10. Dry brush hi-lights the edges and protruding parts of the rock.
Speed really is a key element, you don't want to over think it. The coloring of the rocks is probably the most important aspect to achieve realism.
One thing I forgot to mention was to have some stiff brushes handy to clear away the waste plaster as you are working. These waste bits can perhaps also be colored to make the fallen rocks and stones at the bottom of a cliff.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
NP, have you thought about using Insulation Foam Boards?
Pretty easy to work with. One thing I regret is I left the cracks to big between the sections. At the time I wanted that look, well so I thought. They can be filled with caulk or straight white glue.
Cuda Ken
I have installed rock molds aplenty on my layout and understand this process fairly well. I've also carved stratified rock detail into sculptamold covered areas and gotten pretty good results. Now, I would like to try my hand at carving a rock face.
I have a fairly large area, maybe around 8 sq. feet, that is a rock cliff, that I would like to hand carve using Hydrocal Plaster/Amaco Sculptamold/W.S. Mold-A-Scene Plaster, etc. The effect I'm looking for would be a rock face similar to El Capitain; or, Half Dome's face in Yosemite National Park, California.; but, with more fissures, cracks and roughness.
Eric Brooman's rock carvings on his Utah Belt are out-standing and what I would love to be able to achieve! I understand that he is a true artist working in this media and it has taken years to achieve his results and do not expect to just walk in and do as well.
Anybody have links, suggestions or other? Thanks for your time!