For me the smoke is VILE! Smells absolutely horrible-kinda like kerosene. There are scented versions but pine scented or coffee scented kerosene is hardly an improvement in my view. It's simply got to be unhealthy to say the least.
My new Paragon 2 Cab Forward's smoke, however DOES look pretty convincing. Much more realistic that others I"ve seen-to the point where I almost wish I could stand breathing the stuff. I have no windows in my room and only one door so obviously it fills that room with oily smoke pronto. Even with cross ventilation though, I have no interest. I'd highly recommend your seeing one in action and preferably in a small poorly ventilated room to see if it's something you'd not to live without. A huge club layout open house isn't going to tell you this. With really excellent ventilation, I'd be tempted to show it off for a few seconds when I have visitors but never will. I'd much rather have additional weight in place of the smoke unit.
I am also unhappy with the crapshoot aspect of some engines being shipped with smoke unit switches turned to the ON position AND making the location of said switch hard to find (manual give several locations) AND hard to switch off with anything larger than a skewer or tooth pick.
I DO love the Paragon 2's sound though. The Cab Forward is one of the best I've heard anywhere but that kind of thing is very subjective. I can hear the reverberation of boiler steel and "live" steam in mine. Pretty cool!
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Another consideration is that a smoke unit takes space where there could be weight. I recently returned a 4-8-4 with smoke that not only couldn't pull, it also didn't track very well. The problem was that what little weight it had, was to the rear. As a result the engine lifted its front drivers and pilot wheels off the rails, even when running light. It couldn't pull 10 free rolling cars up a 1.5% grade and with the train the imbalance was magnified. Traction tires made it even worse. The same engine with the smoke removed and the boiler stuffed with lead would have been one fine machine. Too bad.
twhite Besides, one of the railroads that I model (Southern Pacific) had an edict for running their steamers with as clean a stack as possible, so the lack of smoke coming out of my locos doesn't bother me a bit, LOL! Tom
Besides, one of the railroads that I model (Southern Pacific) had an edict for running their steamers with as clean a stack as possible, so the lack of smoke coming out of my locos doesn't bother me a bit, LOL!
Tom
Most railroads had policies dictating a clean stack. Black smoke indicates a poor fire, and wastes coal, which costs money. Railroads are a business, so they want the bottom line as big as possible. The Road Foreman of Engines would get on your case in a big way if you continually run with a dirty stack.
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
Two things that just don't scale down well for me are smoke and flowing water. Though I don't have any locos with smoke units, the ones I've seen just kind of 'whisp-puff' while they're running, even when the smoke is synchronized with the chuff. And I think this holds true for ALL scales, not just HO.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
LGB, Aristocraft, Bachmann, Broadway Limited, Mth, Life-Like, Mantua, Lionel, Roco, and Fleischmann all made or make engines that smoke or had room for a smoke unit. Someone must like them. In G,O, and HO scale. Seauth has been making units to fit these also for as long as i can remember.
I have had engines with smoke since the 1950's and never had a problem with a mess or paint damage. I don't run them everyday but they are fun once in a while.
Bob
I have a loco with smoke and I like it and so does my young son. I don't use it all the time or even most of the time but it's nice to have to option to turn it on when I want it.
Each to your own
I really don't understand why the manufacturers even bother with smoke. Why add air pollution, cleanliness issues and finish destruction to a layout just to get an anemic ghost of the prototype reality.
You can safely assume that if anyone ever manages to reproduce the rolling black cloud typically generated by a Kawasaki-built steamer burning poor-quality sub-bituminous I won't allow it within ten full-scale kilometers of my layout!
(I recall a cartoon in MR a dog's age ago where one modeler was complimenting a layout owner on the prototypical appearance of his fixed and mobile smoke generators. Both were wearing gas masks...)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Crandell
I have one of tthe Paragon 2 Y6Bs and it defintley has the smoke unit installed,though I'll not use it for all the above reasons...just amazes me that some seem to just have to have it... oh' well
cudaken Crandell, not that it matters but the PCM Big Boy came with smoke. I will add I took it out, just got in the way when I am working on it. One of the things the Paragon II can do that the Paragon's cannot is to be program to stop at stations, sound there horns / whistles etc at different spots on your layout. Cuda Ken
Crandell, not that it matters but the PCM Big Boy came with smoke. I will add I took it out, just got in the way when I am working on it.
One of the things the Paragon II can do that the Paragon's cannot is to be program to stop at stations, sound there horns / whistles etc at different spots on your layout.
Cuda Ken
Thanks, Ken, I'll file that one for memory. For a while I wondered if I were forgetting that our Y6b Mallets also had smoke, but I recall looking into the stack carefully and finding no appliance for it. To this point, my only smoker is the Hybrid Q2. I turned it off right away. I just can't get past how unrealistic HO scale attempts to generate smoke are.
I can't speak for the Paragon/PCM locos about whether they have smoke or not. I've had quite a few steam locos in the past that had smoke and I can tell you that you're better off without it. It's more trouble than it's worth. It's messy, settles on everything and will ruin your locos paint not to mention your scenery. The only smoking steamer I have now is an old 70's era Bachmann 0-6-0 that one of my uncles left to me (he rebuilt it and upgraded the drive to similar to what's in much more expensive locos). I used to run it with smoke quite a bit. The smoke ruined my scenery and left a film on the structures and rolling stock. Even though I haven't run it in a couple of years I have to touch up the paint where it's been peeling off the metal body.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I hate Rust
The PRR T1, NYC Hudson, Cab Forward, Reading T-1 and the GS-4 had smoke in Paragon 2.. The smoke is syncronized with the chuff.
In the older models there might be room for a Seuth smoke unit but no puff with the chuff. It just floats out.
The Paragon series were QSI sound systems with DC/DCC.
The new Paragon 2 system belongs to BLI only and has more features with DC/DCC.
To my knowledge, none of the Paragon, Paragon 2, and PCM models have/had smoke. Only some of the recent Hybrid brass/plastic models have smoke. Notably, the Q2, I think the Mohawk (not sure there),...
Roadie, I second Ken's comment. Unless you're interested in ruining the finish on your locomotives, gunking up your rails, breathing in a lot of oil particles, and generally messing things up, stay away from smoke. Been there, done that, hated it, threw away the T-shirt.
Far as I know none of the Paragons have smoke. Have you had a engine that belch smoke before? It does leave a oily mess all over the engine and track. I had a few and the charm wore off quickly.
I don't want a Mikado does any of the other loco have smoke in the Paragon series?
RoadieWanting to pick up a brodway Limited I don't see very many Paragon 2 for sale but there is a fair amount of Paragons. What is the biggest difference besides the sound between the Paragon and the Paragon 2??
Does the Paragon have Smoke? I know none of the Mikado don't
Wanting to pick up a brodway Limited I don't see very many Paragon 2 for sale but there is a fair amount of Paragons. What is the biggest difference besides the sound between the Paragon and the Paragon 2??
Thanks