Scenery Question

[Anonymous]

I have heard the phrase "I do not want my train to pass throught the same scene twice". What does that mean and how is it accomplished?

Thanks for helping a newbie!!

[mondotrains]

Hi,
I'll take a stab at answering your question. I know when I first got into model railroading, I had a difficult time understanding the concept of a train only running through a scene once and understanding "staging", which goes hand-in-hand with that concept.

What is meant here is that when you actually go to "operate" your layout like a real railroad, a train should only go through a scene once because in the real world, trains are going from point A to point B, not around and around in a circle. Obviously, that sounds absurd when you think in terms of a 4 by 8' layout with an oval of track. We have all watched trains run around and around through the same scene hundreds of times. Even on my fairly large layout which fills a 16 by 18 foot room, I can have trains run around and around over and over, which is still great fun for me and visitors to watch and provides for the breaking in of an engine. However, when we "operate" my layout with a crew, trains come in from east or west "staging" (tracks behind the layout that allow me to simulate cars coming and going from "my modeled world" to somewhere else in the world) and later trains go out of my "world" back to the hidden staging tracks. Trains that came in from staging are made up into "locals" which go out to deliver their cars and then disappear into the staging tracks. We also have "Through trains" come in from East staging and go out to West staging and vice versa.

Let me explain, using a 4 by 8' layout, how you could operate your trains like a real railroad and only go through a scene once.

Place a backdrop down the middle of your layout, along the 8 foot length, with a tunnel at one end and let's say a rock cliff at the other end. Now, trains could come in from either the east or west (through your tunnel or around that rock cliff) and run into the modeled portion of your layout, in front of the backdrop. (A backdrop could be a piece of masonite about 16" high, painted blue to simulate sky). During your operating session, you would run a train in from either direction, drop off cars at various industries you have modeled, and just continue out the other side and stop in staging. The tunnel and rock cliff help to delineate each "end" of your "world". Think about it....a train came in from the "east" or "west", dropped off some cars, pickied up empties, and then disappeared at the other end. In this simple example, the train only went through a scene ONCE, just like a real railroad.

On a layout I built for a nephew, I had a small yard that allowed for making up trains in the front, modeled portion of the layout. Trains then left the yard heading back to staging, "switching" (dropping off and picking up cars) along the way.

I hope I've given you a start at understanding this stuff. Please don't hesitate to email me if you'd like more explanation.

Mondo

[DSchmitt]

Many layouts designed to have the trains go through the same scene more than once to gain extra "mileage". Some basic examples:

Figure 8: Looks like two separate lines crossing, but the same train travels on both of them.

Twice Around Oval: The train will pass through a scene on one track, then latter appear again from the same direction on another track. The 2nd track is often at a different elevation from the first, but doesn't have to be.

Dogbone: A squeezed oval where the tracks along the long side are placed close together, often but not always representating a double track main line. The train appears from one direction on the front track, then reappears latter in the opposite direction on the back track.

Out and Back: Yard to reverse loop then back to yard. Train goes one direction on the track then around reverse loop and returns to the yard in the opposite direction on the same track.

Loop to Loop: Similar to Out and Back but yard replaced by a reverse loop.

The "modern" trend is to avoid such layouts, or to arrange the scenery and track so that only one track appears in any scene. Easier done on large layouts, than on small or even medium size layouts.

Actually the crossing required on a Figure 8 or Twice Around Oval can be the scenic focal point on a small layout. This is true whether it is a level crossing (which can be sceniced to represent a junction), or the crossing tracks are at different elevations.

On a Dogbone trains may be staged in the "loop" areas (if there is room) as monditrains suggests for the simple oval

Any of these configerations can gain realism from having a staging area, but having a train go through the "same scene more than once" may be unavoidable or so restrictive that it is not worth doing. Still it is an ideal to strive for especially if you are concerned with being absolutely "prototypical" And don't forget that there are a few places where the Prototype does pass through a scene more than once. For instance: loops (like Tehachapi ), horseshoe curves and switchbacks. Another example I just thought of is a major yard where all the trains leave in one direction (say westbound) Eastbound trains leave westbound then go around a reverse loop and back through the yard on a bypass track.

[Eriediamond]

Good question oren, both Mondo and DSchmitt gave you good answers and I can only add that that is what we strive for. However, sometimes we have to make sacrifices in our modeling world do to space limitations, etc. I'm in the "planning-waiting for $$ funds" stage of building my future Erie layout. Due to space limitations and what I want from my layout, trains will run through a scene more them once. Prototypical - no, will it bother me -no, will it bother others - maybe, but its what I can afford in the space I have to provide the the type railroad I want to build and the switching operations I want on this railroad. I could build a point to point raildroad with yards, but I'll sacrifice that for more main line running with more "industries" for switching empties and loaded cars in and out of those industries. Think about this. Yes my trains are running in circles ( a large one), the make up of the train will be different each time it passes through a scene due to having swithed out cars during it's circuit around the layout. Unless I just let my trains run free there will be a different train pass through a scene, so mission accomplished (almost) !!!!

[Anonymous]

Good topic oren! I never would have given it a thought about running like this. Good info. folks!

[Anonymous]

Thanks alot everyone! I have an area that is approximately 25 feet long by 16 feet wide to work with. I am just starting and i like the idea of an around the wall set up, but was afraid i would be limited to just a loop. I am new to the hobby and i know i dont have enough modeling skill to build anything more intricate than that. This would be my first layout, so i guess i will have to live and learn. Again, Thanks!!!!

[mondotrains]

Hi Oren,
My buddy and I were just talking yesterday about what we would do if we had a room like you've described...about 16 by 25 feet. A loop around the room is great but we would have penninsulas extend into the room from that loop. Some would actually have the mainline run down them and others could be just for "switching"...in other words, the only tracks on some penninsulas would be to feed a particular industry or maybe a wharf with a car feery which adds a lot of interest. We've found that penninsulas that are at least 54" wide, which allow for curves around 24 or 26 inch radii are okay, but if you have the space, it would be better to make them a little wider so the curves could be greater. If you plan to run large steam engines, you will want wider curves.

Hope this helps.
Mondo