Light Rail in Minneapolis

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hi Jerry, I didn't mean to take over your topic. I love the light rail in spite of the fact that it does me little or no good as a potential rider.

The HOV lanes have always struck me as a huge waste of resource. They are so under used. As far as I'm concerned they would have done much better putting a light rail line down the middle of 394. Same with 35W, 494, 694, and even 94. Chicago has a couple of their EL's running down the middle of their freeways, and they work. Dedicated right of way, high speed long distance between stops.

Maybe our little experiment will be the beginning of something big. We can only hope.[8D]

[Roadtrp]

I think that as they fine tune the system the problems with delays along Hiawatha will be reduced. It will never be like it was before light rail though, and I guess to me that is OK. People using an inefficient mode of transit are being forced to sacrifice a bit so that people using efficient transit can be rewarded. That is the same situation as the High Occupancy Vehicle lane on I-394. I know that irritates some people too, but I think it makes sense. We need to do things like this if we are ever going to improve the efficiency of transit in this country.

As for Houston; it doesn't surprise me a bit. My mother and sisters live in Dallas, so I have driven in large cities in Texas. They are the ABSOLUTE WORST drivers I've ever seen (and I've driven in over 35 states in the U.S.).

No offense intended to any Texas folk on this board. [;)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ckape

Are you sure you there was a 3-car train? My understanding was that some of the stations, mostly the ones along Hiawatha, weren't built to handle 3-car trains, although they included expansion space to do so.

As for the article, it seems to be trying to paint a rather dark picture, although Houston has been having troubles. I'm pretty sure that the 15 MPH after the twins game was a one-time thing due to some equipment thing, but I can't find anything online about it.

Good point about the platform length. I thought I saw a set running that way, but maybe not. I have a photo of a triple, but it was not in service. The photo was taken during testing, note the snow on the ground. Three would have to be the limit though.

[ckape]

Are you sure you there was a 3-car train? My understanding was that some of the stations, mostly the ones along Hiawatha, weren't built to handle 3-car trains, although they included expansion space to do so.

As for the article, it seems to be trying to paint a rather dark picture, although Houston has been having troubles. I'm pretty sure that the 15 MPH after the twins game was a one-time thing due to some equipment thing, but I can't find anything online about it.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Here's a story that Big Girl found about light rail safety. It sounds like Houston has it way worse than we do. Minneapolis is just coming up on it's second complete month of operation.

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Beat the Train


One Minneapolis Police offficer told the FOX 9 Investigators, they predicted at least one fatality within the first month. We spent the last 13 days watching the light rail. We saw people playing chicken, nearly walking right in front of the train and going under the arms to beat the train.

The Light Rail is state of the art, with three redundant braking systems. After a year of dress rehearsals, one operator believes the possibility of mechanical failures is highly unlikely. But that doesn't mean pedestrians and drivers won't make mistakes.

At 50 miles per hour, the Light Rail's top speed along Hiawatha, it takes 10 seconds for the train to stop. At 25 miles per hour, the downtown speed, it takes 92 feet. In just a week, operators were forced to use the emergency brake three times. Once to avoid some kids who snuck under the arms, another to avoid a collision with a bicyclist, and a third saved a woman pushing a stroller who went against the light.

Last month, A 15-year-old jogger wasn't as lucky. He ran under the arms and right into a car. There was no train, but a witness believes the gate played a factor. The teen is in a wheelchair and may have permanent brain damage.

The Light Rail is designed to be quiet. In some cases, it may be too quiet, especially during a Twins game. Metro Transit has slowed the train down to 15 miles per hour near the Metrodome.

Last Month, the Federal Transit Administration gave the Light Rail a green light, finding "no safety critical concerns." A separate state report had 85 safety recommendations. Most minor and already taken care, but it took issue with an earlier evaluation which said "the rail system is likely to be safe for revenue service." The report called that statement "strange and unnecessary."

MInneapolis is just the latest city to get a Light Rail. Houston, Texas unveiled its metro train in January. Since then, it's been a track of troubles. 46 collisions in seven months between the train and cars, but no fatalities yet.

There are 24 Light Rail systems across the country. The most recent numbers show 30 fatalities in a single year, more than 1300 injuries and 333 collisions. Statistically that's safer than riding in your car, but not as a safe as a bus. In Houston, none of the accidents were caused by operator error or mechanical failure. One other fact to consider, Houston drivers are the worst in the country. Minnesota is just slightly below the average.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I've noticed that along Hiawatha there are lights mounted on the traffic signal arms that flash when the trains are coming. I know that St Paul has a photo opticon system for the emergency vehicles that recognizes a special strobe and changes the lights. Minneapolis never installed that system, at least not city wide.

Did they do that on Hiawatha? If so, do the emergency vehicles have controlers on board, or do the trains just get the green light when ever they show up? It seems like the latter.

I have heard that the trains need some amount of priority along there because they need to maintain a certain amount of headway between units. But it seems silly for southbound trains to grab the intersection as they pull in to stop at stations on the north side of the cross street. This forces the light and crossing signals to hold while the train loads and unloads.

The main reason spacing is so important is electrical. If I'm not mistaken, this little railroad can only handle a maximum of 4 cars per electrical block. Most of the running I've seen so far is 2 car trains, though after a Twins game there was a 3 car train running. Singles seem to be the rarity.

In a way this is really no different from what we do in modeling. It's just that their power supplies and circuit breakers are much larger.[swg]

[ckape]

I think one of the problems with the delays is that the signals get pre-empted when a train is on the tracks within a certain distance, but the stations are within that distance so the signals change for the train when it's just pulling into the station, rather than when it's pulling out, which would make more sense.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, it's caused all sorts of traffic woes along Hiawatha Avenue. Traffic is much worse, as the LRT brings traffic to a halt in all directions. I often use Hiawatha or need to cross over several times a day and I'm starting to lose patience.

A Fire Department Captain told me they have a new code when filing reports for "delayed by Light Rail."

Gary

[Big_Boy_4005]

There has been a fair amount of confusion around here too, but no real accidents. Some of the downtown runing is a little tricky, especially near the Metrodome where the tracks cut through a couple of intersections on the diagonal. Fortunately all of the signls for the trains and cars have been coordinated so the trains get a clear shot to get out into traffic.

[cwclark]

Houston just got a light rail system and it works fine if all the cars and trucks would quit making left hand turns in front of the oncoming trains...they've had over 20 accidents already between light rail and motor vehicles since last January....One wreck was caused by some UP maintenance workers that actually lifted the crossing gatesthat were down to get their truck over the tracks and what happened?..they got creamed by the light rail train that they didn't think was coming down the tracks that day ,even after they were warned earlier that the train was going to be in their vacinity...whew!...makes me want to ride Metro Rail!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Glad to see LRT in Minn. I see the car manufacturer is Bombardier, Calgary is using 1948 technology German coaches and when new ones were required they were not compatible with the old cars. the city would not use home-grown , world acclaimed, superior Bombardier coaches, hope you have better luck with your LRT, strange how fast cities got rid of street cars, and gosh what are those new things going down street on RAILS!!! what goes around, comes around, maybe we may see train travel in the future???

This new system will take some getting used to, as one of the main streets through downtown has been completely cut off, forcing all car traffic to turn and go around. Unfortunately the costs would have been too much to run under the street for the downtown portion of the line.

[tatans]

Glad to see LRT in Minn. I see the car manufacturer is Bombardier, Calgary is using 1948 technology German coaches and when new ones were required they were not compatible with the old cars. the city would not use home-grown , world acclaimed, superior Bombardier coaches, hope you have better luck with your LRT, strange how fast cities got rid of street cars, and gosh what are those new things going down street on RAILS!!! what goes around, comes around, maybe we may see train travel in the future???

[Big_Boy_4005]

Part of the parking problem will go away when the extension opens in December. Right now the expectation is that people ride the feeder buses over to the line, then ride in. For commuters the light rail is a lot cheaper than trying to park downtown.

Bloomington will have thousands of spaces with 3 stops to choose from. Then the question will be what will the Mall of America do when everyone wants to park there all day. It may not really be a problem, since the mall is fairly empty on weekdays.

As one who goes to see the Twins once in a while, it is still cheaper to park at a meter near the dome. Round trip for 2 is is $5, the meter is $3 for 4 hours from 6 - 10 PM.

[Roadtrp]

<<Light Rail the future?>>

I think it really could be in Minneapolis. So far the biggest problem is that they did not make the park and ride lots large enough. People around the stations are complaining that light rail customers are taking up all the neighborhood parking spaces.

This is the first time Minneapolis has had decent mass transit. Until now, we have been forced to get by with a bus system that tried hard, but left a lot to be desired.

[Anonymous]

Light Rail the future?

[Roadtrp]

After about two months of operation, ridership or the new light rail system in Minneapolis is WAY ABOVE projections. Part or the reason for this is heavier usage than expected by fans going to Twins games.

Speaking of which...

TWINS 8, YANKEES 2

I was at the game tonight and it was a thing of beauty.

Twins now lead Cleveland by 3-1/2 and Chicago by 5.

YOO HOO!!!

Light rail in Minneapolis really seems to be doing well.

[;)][;)]