@riogrande5761
I also have the KAto NW2. I have 2 SP's and 1 PRR
Mr. LMD, Owner, founder
The Central Chicago & Illinois Railroad
Mr. LMD I do not see the appeal of having a 44ton. If it's that bad, why would the PRR buy so many lol
I do not see the appeal of having a 44ton. If it's that bad, why would the PRR buy so many lol
They would handle very tight curves in the areas along the Delaware River in Phillie. Lots of #3 & #4 switches into industries.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
To put things in perspective, those big huge modern Gensets don't really have the muscle to be much use in the mills. Word I heard was they can only handle six or seven carloads of slabs and the MP15s could handle 12.
steinjr The 44-tonner was made exactly that size because that was the largest size engine (< 90 000 lbs) that did _not_ require a two man crew (engineer and fireman), so crew costs were significantly lower. Smile, Stein
The 44-tonner was made exactly that size because that was the largest size engine (< 90 000 lbs) that did _not_ require a two man crew (engineer and fireman), so crew costs were significantly lower. Smile, Stein
Considering they were built in the early 1940's at the same time all the brinksmanship was going on with the FT locomotives, and using drawbars so a 4-unit set could be considered one locomotive rather than using couplers and considering them 4 separate locomotives each having to be crewed etc. Crazy times eh? Talk about using the letter of the law to push a point. Of course its not like that still doesn't go on in other area of life these days.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 But if GE expanded the 44 ton switcher, it would surely have had a different name and/or weight designation. I'm not a switcher afficianado, but my guess is GE did make a large switcher and it had a different name eh?
But if GE expanded the 44 ton switcher, it would surely have had a different name and/or weight designation. I'm not a switcher afficianado, but my guess is GE did make a large switcher and it had a different name eh?
The 44-tonner was made exactly that size because that was the largest size engine (< 90 000 lbs) that did _not_ require a two man crew (engineer and fireman), so crew costs were significantly lower. The engine was designed for light work - delivering a few cars to industries in urban areas (with sharp curves), some light yard flat switching, functioning as a shop or engine terminal goat, even switching passenger cars in passenger stations. A quick google search on 44-ton locomotive would have lead e.g to this wikipedia article with some basic facts about the type: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/44-tonner
Or to the diesel shop's roster of original owners of many of the 44-ton engines: http://www.thedieselshop.us/GE_44Ton.HTML
There is tons of information out there :-)I also have a 44-tonner on my layout repainted to Omaha Road colors. Here is a short film clip of the 44-tonner waiting on the spur from the barge terminal with one car, while a Great Northern RS3 passes on the main with a transfer run for the River Avenue Yard:[View:http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/themes/trc/utility/:550:0]
Smile, Stein
As I recall, the 44 ton loco was designed to get around the requirement for a two man crew that was required for heavier locos.
Joe
Mr. LMD @riogrande5761 you would think the railroad manufacturers would at least expand the 44 ton into a larger diesel locomotive.
you would think the railroad manufacturers would at least expand the 44 ton into a larger diesel locomotive.
The switchers I do have are the EMD NW-2, EMD SW1000, FM H10-44 right now. The first two were 1940's and 1950's era mainly, and the SW1000 was originally built in 1966-68 time frame.
The Georgetown Loop still uses a 44-Ton as a helper as well as switching passenger cars. Was it Proto when the loop first operated, No; but, it did become Proto do to lack of power in modern times...
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
My Blog
You would think the railroad manufacturers would at least expand the 44 ton into a larger diesel locomotive.
Mr. LMD I guess the 44-ton is only for small duties i guess.
I guess the 44-ton is only for small duties i guess.
Pretty much - they are one of the smallest diesel switchers made. But because some situations are ideal for their use, many major railroads purchased them. The D&RGW purchase around 5 or 6 of them - I'll have to check my Rio Grande Diesels Volume 1 book at home to be sure of the specifics.
I think I recall one photo of a D&RGW GE 44-ton switcher adding or subtracting passenger cars from a train in the 50's or 60's in Colorado Springs (between Denver and Pueblo, Colorado.
riogrande5761 Mr. LMD: I know the 44ton was mostly a steelplant locomotive, freelance modelers do use many locomotives differently from the real operational/defunct ones. The 44-ton switcher was mostly used for "light duty" switching and never in any mainline "helper" duties. And to specifically answer your question, I have never seen any modelers run a 44-ton switcher in the mode you are asking about. I'm 52 and I've read countless magazine articles since I was a teenager in the 70's, and again, never seen it done in person or read about it. That includes freelance modelers. Now getting back to my original comment - if you want to freelance or "imagineer" a train using a 44-ton switcher, then there is nothing to stop you from doing this. I just suspect it is highly unlikely you will find many modelers who thought of doing the same. But again, you can do anything you want - you can try running trains with old fashioned civil war era steam engines pulling a phase II Superliner passenger car if you want. Its your model railroad so you can make your own hamburger as it were! I'll have to agree with dhusman here, its pure modelers license. And agree'd, those 44 toners weren't steel mill switchers per se, they were just light duty switchers which tended to pull small cuts of cars and switch them. I think I recall seeing them used back when I was a kid in the early 1970's at Travis Air Force Base - there were small switchers like that moving military box cars onto spurs at the base.
Mr. LMD: I know the 44ton was mostly a steelplant locomotive, freelance modelers do use many locomotives differently from the real operational/defunct ones.
The 44-ton switcher was mostly used for "light duty" switching and never in any mainline "helper" duties.
And to specifically answer your question, I have never seen any modelers run a 44-ton switcher in the mode you are asking about. I'm 52 and I've read countless magazine articles since I was a teenager in the 70's, and again, never seen it done in person or read about it. That includes freelance modelers.
Now getting back to my original comment - if you want to freelance or "imagineer" a train using a 44-ton switcher, then there is nothing to stop you from doing this. I just suspect it is highly unlikely you will find many modelers who thought of doing the same.
But again, you can do anything you want - you can try running trains with old fashioned civil war era steam engines pulling a phase II Superliner passenger car if you want. Its your model railroad so you can make your own hamburger as it were!
I'll have to agree with dhusman here, its pure modelers license. And agree'd, those 44 toners weren't steel mill switchers per se, they were just light duty switchers which tended to pull small cuts of cars and switch them. I think I recall seeing them used back when I was a kid in the early 1970's at Travis Air Force Base - there were small switchers like that moving military box cars onto spurs at the base.
dehusman Actually a 44-tonner was more a branchline or inner city switching engine. It wasn't big enough or powerfull enough to for many steel mill chores. The Baldwin VO-1000 and its kin or Alco S series were probably more common as steel mill engines. Any use of a 44 tonner as a midtrain helper would be purely modeler's license. Any train big enough to need mid train helpers would be too big for a 44 tonner to help. In addition, if you mixed in a 44 tonner with other bigger engines it would essentially derate the other engines and make the whole consist less powerful than if you left it off. So a GP7 on the head and rear could haul more than a GP7 on the head and rear with a 44 tonner in the middle. It has to do with the minimum continuous speed and how long you can load the traction motors before they burn up. Same thing with an AC front and rear and a GP7 in the middle. If you load up the AC's it will fry the GP7. If you keep the GP7 safe, the AC's can't operate at full power. The PRR had the largest fleet of 44 tonners and they found they were less powerful than a modern (1920's) 0-4-0.
Actually a 44-tonner was more a branchline or inner city switching engine. It wasn't big enough or powerfull enough to for many steel mill chores. The Baldwin VO-1000 and its kin or Alco S series were probably more common as steel mill engines.
Any use of a 44 tonner as a midtrain helper would be purely modeler's license. Any train big enough to need mid train helpers would be too big for a 44 tonner to help. In addition, if you mixed in a 44 tonner with other bigger engines it would essentially derate the other engines and make the whole consist less powerful than if you left it off. So a GP7 on the head and rear could haul more than a GP7 on the head and rear with a 44 tonner in the middle. It has to do with the minimum continuous speed and how long you can load the traction motors before they burn up. Same thing with an AC front and rear and a GP7 in the middle. If you load up the AC's it will fry the GP7. If you keep the GP7 safe, the AC's can't operate at full power.
The PRR had the largest fleet of 44 tonners and they found they were less powerful than a modern (1920's) 0-4-0.
SMassey My personal experience with the second generation Bachmann Spectrum 44ton engine is to NOT recommend it to other modelers. The engine is nice in details but lacks in weight to do any meaningful work in a yard. There are many other options that could fill in nicely for the era they were used in. If you are only running the engine with 1 or 2 cars, like in a coke plant, then I can say it will preform nicely as the engine is smooth and quiet. Massey
My personal experience with the second generation Bachmann Spectrum 44ton engine is to NOT recommend it to other modelers. The engine is nice in details but lacks in weight to do any meaningful work in a yard. There are many other options that could fill in nicely for the era they were used in. If you are only running the engine with 1 or 2 cars, like in a coke plant, then I can say it will preform nicely as the engine is smooth and quiet.
Massey
I never had an interest in buying them because the 70ton seem a little better than the 44.
Mr. LMDI know the 44ton was mostly a steelplant locomotive, freelance modelers do use many locomotives differently from the real operational/defunct ones.
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tomikawaTT Bearing in mind that a 44 tonner puts less weight on the rails than a loaded four-bay AAR hopper car, it could be moved dead almost anywhere in the consist of an ordinary freight. Upon arriving at its destination it would probably be started up, cut out of the train and go on about its business - probably at a major industrial complex, as the local/in-plant switcher. It would be more likely to be owned by either the industrial end user or a leasing company than by the Class I that moved it. So, why was it in that freight? Either as a delivery from that leasing company, or possibly from overhaul at a specialist facility elsewhere. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with occasional tripleheaded teakettle 0-6-0Ts)
Bearing in mind that a 44 tonner puts less weight on the rails than a loaded four-bay AAR hopper car, it could be moved dead almost anywhere in the consist of an ordinary freight. Upon arriving at its destination it would probably be started up, cut out of the train and go on about its business - probably at a major industrial complex, as the local/in-plant switcher. It would be more likely to be owned by either the industrial end user or a leasing company than by the Class I that moved it.
So, why was it in that freight? Either as a delivery from that leasing company, or possibly from overhaul at a specialist facility elsewhere.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with occasional tripleheaded teakettle 0-6-0Ts)
Would you recommend it to any other modelers?
I plan it. I have one built with a decoder and the second one build, but not decoded and the third is sitting in pieces unbuilt. If it were the SN they would have about 10 HM's tucked between them. That's about what I am planning.
As far as using them on my layout I have one 44ton engine that is so light I can barely use it to switch more than 4 or 5 cars at a time on level track. So I retired the 44toner from switching duty and used it as a commuter train.
This engine worked better than my Brill trolly. I could not get the trolly to go slow enough to be realistic and once I got it going reliable it was making the transit from one end of the trolly line to the other way too fast. The 44toner did the job just fine and nice and slow.
Trynn_Allen2 I don't know of any RR that used them in that manner. The Sacarmento Northern liked to use three steeplecabs on a 5% slope. 2 on point with 1 pushing from the rear.
I don't know of any RR that used them in that manner. The Sacarmento Northern liked to use three steeplecabs on a 5% slope. 2 on point with 1 pushing from the rear.
Do you know or seen anyone use them in their long train modeling operation?
riogrande5761 cv_acr: Mr. LMD: I love your answer and yes, I love the D&RGW too. However, I was taking about using a 44-ton on modelers' layouts not reality :). Yeah, but do you want your layout to be based at least on some form of reality or not? Exactly and that is my point. If the user wants to know what people are doing on their layouts, what does it matter if it isn't based on reality? Yes, many modelers try to copy what real railroads do on their layouts to try to make their operations look more believable or realistic. But there are some people who don't give a hoot about what real railroads do and run wherever they like. Since 44 ton switchers probably never ran in real life as described in the original question, then the poster if faced with using "modelers license" which means he does what he wants and disregards reality. Thats fine - whatever makes you happy. The hobby is their for folks do enjoy in many ways.
cv_acr: Mr. LMD: I love your answer and yes, I love the D&RGW too. However, I was taking about using a 44-ton on modelers' layouts not reality :). Yeah, but do you want your layout to be based at least on some form of reality or not?
Mr. LMD: I love your answer and yes, I love the D&RGW too. However, I was taking about using a 44-ton on modelers' layouts not reality :).
Yeah, but do you want your layout to be based at least on some form of reality or not?
Exactly and that is my point. If the user wants to know what people are doing on their layouts, what does it matter if it isn't based on reality? Yes, many modelers try to copy what real railroads do on their layouts to try to make their operations look more believable or realistic. But there are some people who don't give a hoot about what real railroads do and run wherever they like.
Since 44 ton switchers probably never ran in real life as described in the original question, then the poster if faced with using "modelers license" which means he does what he wants and disregards reality. Thats fine - whatever makes you happy. The hobby is their for folks do enjoy in many ways.
that is my point sir. I know the 44ton was mostly a steelplant locomotive, freelance modelers do use many locomotives differently from the real operational/defunct ones.
cv_acr Mr. LMD: I love your answer and yes, I love the D&RGW too. However, I was taking about using a 44-ton on modelers' layouts not reality :). Yeah, but do you want your layout to be based at least on some form of reality or not?
EMD#1 I've never heard of 44 ton locomotives being used this way. As far as I know most 44 ton GEs didn't even have MU cables. The 44 ton engine was designed for light duty switching service mainly assigned as plant switchers in an industry although you might find one on a shortline or two. Years ago I used to work for a shortline that connected with the CSX that only had two locomotives: a GP9 and an SW8 which lacked MU capabilities. Sometimes we would run our train out to the interchange with the GP9 on the headend and the SW8 pushing on the rear. It was a treat for me since I was the one running the SW8 pushing against the train! Tim NS Locomotive Engineer and Fellow Model Railroader
I've never heard of 44 ton locomotives being used this way. As far as I know most 44 ton GEs didn't even have MU cables. The 44 ton engine was designed for light duty switching service mainly assigned as plant switchers in an industry although you might find one on a shortline or two.
Years ago I used to work for a shortline that connected with the CSX that only had two locomotives: a GP9 and an SW8 which lacked MU capabilities. Sometimes we would run our train out to the interchange with the GP9 on the headend and the SW8 pushing on the rear. It was a treat for me since I was the one running the SW8 pushing against the train!
Tim
NS Locomotive Engineer and Fellow Model Railroader
I know, I'm just asking modelers if they ever used a 44ton as a middle train helper. That is all but thx for the information :)
steinjr cv_acr: Mr. LMD: I love your answer and yes, I love the D&RGW too. However, I was taking about using a 44-ton on modelers' layouts not reality :). Yeah, but do you want your layout to be based at least on some form of reality or not? The guy (who claims to be an adult) describes his layout plans like this: "Currently my N scale layout is based in present day Illinois. The fictional railroad Central Illinois Railroad, also known as "Blac Rail", is made up of the SP, D&RGW, IC, CNW, CGW, RI, PRR, and certain parts of the Conrail system. The Lumber yard steel mill will be based in Chicago, the logging camp and mill based in Oregon, and the mining based somewhere in West Virginia. It will have 2 or 3 towns and one big city." Smile,Stein
The guy (who claims to be an adult) describes his layout plans like this:
"Currently my N scale layout is based in present day Illinois. The fictional railroad Central Illinois Railroad, also known as "Blac Rail", is made up of the SP, D&RGW, IC, CNW, CGW, RI, PRR, and certain parts of the Conrail system. The Lumber yard steel mill will be based in Chicago, the logging camp and mill based in Oregon, and the mining based somewhere in West Virginia. It will have 2 or 3 towns and one big city."
Smile,Stein
What is your point here? I am asking modelers if they ever used a simple locomotive on their own layout and that is it. If you have a problem with me please explain them because no one else here have a problem with me or my post...
Mr. LMDI love your answer and yes, I love the D&RGW too. However, I was taking about using a 44-ton on modelers' layouts not reality :).
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog