Support your local hobby shop ?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davsachz

That really adds up over the building of a midsized layout. I gave him a chance. If he would have went 10% I would stay local, but he wouldn't budge, Like my 1-2 x a week wasn't enough.

Hope I'm not repeating myself in this thread! A few years ago our LHS offered our 20 member club 10% on purchases. Some time later he sent us a note recinding the discount, stating some members were paying with credit cards which cost him more, and others did not have club ID cards when requesting the discount. In a poll of members, there were only a few who actually bought anything at the shop.

He never said anything about credit card purchases when the discount was offered, and could have refused the discount if members did not have their cards. So his discontinuing the discount left some of us with a lesser opinion of his shop. I know during the period of the discount I bought a $100.00 engine and forgot to ask for the discount, and it was not offered either. So this shop does not get very much business from our members. Our club has been hosting an annual show locally for 20 years and I'm sure it helps his business, but he does not seem to appreciate us.

In other areas shops I've been offered 10-15% discounts by the owners, as they know that I belong to a club. And this has been without me asking too. Guess where many of us shop?

Some LHS owners are just not great businessmen (businesspersons?).

Bob Boudreau

[Anonymous]

I was talking shop with my LHS. I asked him if the local club buys there. He said no, they go somewhere else thats cheaper, but he added, that they never gave him a chance. They never asked for a discount. So tonight I asked, if he would give me a dsicount on Unitrack. He said only if I bought my whole layout at once. I said well I plan on buying more tonight, but your out of stock on some things I need. I didn't occur to him I'm in the new excited spending stage. Spending $40 -50 a week like clockwork on Unitrack which isn't exactly walking out the door. So with his answer he has led me to the internet. Some of the price differences are too much to swallow. His shop Double Slip Switch $65.00
Toy Train Heaven $39, PArailroad the same. Average pack of Kato LHS $8-9 Internet $5-6.

That really adds up over the building of a midsized layout. I gave him a chance. If he would have went 10% I would stay local, but he wouldn't budge, Like my 1-2 x a week wasn't enough. Well enough bloviating for now. Dave

[CBQ_Guy]

Which one?

I've got three in my area!

(not bad for a rural location, eh?)[:D][^][yeah][tup]

[Bikerdad]

Davaschz,

I find it hard to comprehend being more than an hour from a good MRR shop in Pennsylvania! That state is overrun with railroadiana!

[Anonymous]

Biker Dad said:

Schuykill Flyer, Leesport, PA: great owner, fair pricing, fair stock.

I agree, unfortunately he's about 1.5 hours away, but when I'm in the area I do go there. He's knowledgable and outgoing. A little shy on "N" but most general MRR shops are. Dave

[Anonymous]

No hobby shops anywhere near here. In fact, it's an hour's drive to buy a pair of socks and much longer to anything resembling a hobby shop. Since I've been car-free for half a year now and travell primarily by touring bicycle, getting to any hobby shop has been pretty much impossible. I've been saving my pennies and making a list for when I fix the van and get to a town with a shop. Right now, I'm building a new layout from scratch using materials on hand, along with track & roadbed I've recycled from a previous layout. Half finished laying the track & couldn't find enough N scale rail joiners to continue. A few cents worth would do it but an additional 9 bucks in shipping charges from the mail order places rubs me the wrong way. Ah, the high price I pay to live in Paradise.

Needless to say, track-laying and any scratchbuilding from bought materials is on hold until I get to somebody's local hobby shop.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

I remember when I first got back into the hobby about 20 years ago looking for decent shops in my local area. When on holidays in New England, I would always bring along a recent copy of MR to seek out the local shops.

I quickly found out their MR ads were usually highly exaggerated. "Complete scratch building supplies" - Ha! I had more at home than most shops, and I was just getting into the hobby. Other descriptions like "complete HO supplies", etc, were also mostly misleading. Often when I asked about a particular item, they usually said "I can order it for you" Heck, I can order if for me, so thanks but no thanks!

It's too bad MR doesn't enforce truth in advertising in their ads! [:(]

I more or less gave up on using the ads to find shops, and found one of the better ones through a friend who had been dealing with one in MA. It was Baystate Hobbies that was located in a fellows garage that was in the basement of his house. All kinds of stuff - I left quite a bundle there!

Bob Boudreau

[Bikerdad]

Wow. Tough question. When I was heavily into gaming, almost all of my purchases were at the local retailers. Now, with MRR, its a little different.

First, the MRR environment in my home locale isn't the hottest. We have a couple of HobbyTown's, staffed by friendly, albeit generally clueless (about MRR) folks, where just about everything is list price. That's okay for magazines, but not for locos. We also have an overstuffed, over HO'd, and overaged MRR specialty store that's located in the scruffy part of town, where much of the stock is aging, and the owner fails to give that "warm and fuzzy" feeling. (Part of that may be that I'm not an HO guy...) Finally, there was a startup that was going to be exclusively N scale, but was experiencing difficulties with the back-end of the business that may have scuttled operations. I have been on the road since May, so I don't know the fate of the store, but I hope it has made it.

LHS's have to offer something. Whether its availability of product, a discount, friendliness, convenience, there needs to be something that justifies their existence. Some manage it, some don't.

I have had the privilege of visiting quite a few "local hobby shops" during the last few months, and I'd like to send mongo kudos out to the following shops, in no particular order:

Silver Spike Hobbies, Denton, TX : fair selection, excellent pricing (better than DMT in Addison, IIRC), friendly and knowledgable owner.

Discount Model Trains, Addison, TX : fantastic selection, good pricing, friendly staff.

Mainline Hobby Supply, Blue Ridge Summit, PA : same as DMT, more MRR stuff in that store 50 miles from nowhere than in my entire metro area of almost 2million people!

Schuykill Flyer, Leesport, PA: great owner, fair pricing, fair stock.

Tommy Gilbert's, Gettysburg, PA: great owner, best selection of Brass I've ever seen. Fair pricing.

Tractive Effort Hobbies, Fayetville, AR : great pricing, friendly and fun staff, friendly and fun customers. If this was your LHS, you'd be insane to complain.

T&K Hobby Shop, Bridgeport, OH : good pricing, DEFINITELY for the O and larger scale guys. N is an afterthought, but the staff is friendly.

Manhattan Hobbies, New York, NY: great pricing, friendly folks, really cluttered. Don't know how knowledgeable they are, but they didna give me a hard time for dripping rain all over the place.

Okay, there are others that I have visited, worthy of the Hall of Shame, that I won't mention here. Here's the list of things that turn me off when I visit a LHS.

No public restrooms. Yes, a few of the LHS's I've visited wouldn't allow me to use the restroom. I didn't allow them to have any of my money.

Rude staff.

Old stock. Yellowing boxes and the like. It creates a NEGATIVE impression, especially when the stock is old, yellowing, AND at MSRP.

Overcrowded shelves. More of a problem for the HO guys, with those legions of boxes on end. N-scale usually has the advantage of more visually appealing product display.

Stuff piled up on the display cases. As an N-scaler, most of the good stuff is in display cases. When I can't look at the stuff, I'm less likely to buy it.

Dusty, non-operating layouts. If you're going to have a layout in the store, maintain it and operate it.

No test track.

Claims of "specializing in N, HO, Z, O, Garden, R/C, military kits, rocketry, and miniatures, coin collecting, and science kits." Nobody specializes in all of those. There are a few "mega hobby shops" that have departments for those, where they've actually staffed the departments with knowledgeable folks, but that's not the same as specialization. "General Store" hobby shops should own up to being just that, generalists. Nothing wrong with that.

Charging MSRP for prepaid or 50% deposit special orders.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

[Anonymous]

I'm fortunate enough to have four hobby shops within a reasonable distance, and all four are different. Two I'll give my money to, and two I wouldn't spent a buffalo nickel at. Let me explain briefly:

1. The first shop is mostly D&D and Magic cards, with one aisle devoted mostly to cheap kits and a few depleted scenic material displays. The woman who runs it is about 50, dresses like she's 20, and is always hanging on some college guy, usually in the 18-25 range, behind the counter. The whole place is creepy. I try to stay away from there.

2. The second place is the place the old timers go: mostly Lionel stuff, old kits and accessories, everything is way to expensive, and the owner is a grump who reserves a special degree of disdain for the newbie who happens to wander in. They wouldn't even let me use their restroom![xx(]

3. The third shop is a Hobbytown USA, your typical chain store shop. The best of the four in terms of scratchbuilding materials, and the guys there are pretty friendly, but if you're looking for an answer to a model RR question, better go elsewhere.

4. The last place is a shop that's been around for fifty years, and is run by the daughter of the guy who started it and is now deceased. She can answer any question about the hobby you could ask (which is partly why the local model RR club doesn't like her too much), and though her stock is mostly ten years old or more, so are the price tags, so I get some pretty good deals. Plus she knocks off twenty percent if I pay cash instead of debit so she doesn't have to pay VISA a service fee. In short, it's the service that makes that shop a great one. Granted, I find myself having to go to ebay for the hard to find stuff, but even if the prices were the same as everywhere else, I would still do business there, because it's nice to still find a few small businesses that operate as such and don't try to a mini version of Wally world. When you know the guy or girl who runs the shop on a first name basis and they know you, you know you'll get good service. The only thing missing there is the cigar/pipe tobacco smell that always lingered in the hobby shops I went to as a kid. Anybody else have that memory?

[MAbruce]

I’ve had good and bad experiences with the LHS’s in my area. One of the things I’ve noticed is that most model railroaders make for poor store owners. There are some exceptions, but in general they may have a great deal of experience and knowledge, but their people skills often fall short. The retail environment demands people who are outgoing and patient (extroverts). Most in our hobby tend to be the opposite (introvert), which is a major disadvantage when it comes to comprehending concepts like customer service.

The other thing I notice is that modeler store owners often fail to fully understand their market and the challenges they will face as a business. It comes as no surprise to me that LHS’s continue to fail because they can’t compete against their internet based competitors when they are forced to charge MSRP in order to cover their retail overhead (while unable to keep an ample inventory). Most people today are savvy customers, and will shop around for the best prices without feeling any obligation to support any particular store. Why do you think stores like Wal-Mart continue to drive out most small local competing businesses in the areas they open up in? Customer loyalty boils down to price & availability these days. The only thing that will over-ride this is extremely poor service, and even that is questionable as places like Wal-Mart still do well despite poor service (at least in my area).

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kimble

Hi,

I'm getting back into MRR after 20 years (we had a big layout as a kid) and after reading these posts, I have mixed feelings. I think I'll patronize one of the two LHS in my area. One, when I stopped in to look around, told me the my choice of gauge, HO, is out of style. I got the impression his shop would not be the place to look for support. The other is much smaller, but seems to have a great number of rolling stock of our state's RRs. I like that. You don't see too many Maine Central or Bangor Aroostook cars or locos in the magazines.

After reading these posts, I think I'll patronize my LHS, but buy large orders, like track from online, Get the bulk stuff cheap and the nice stuff from the LHS.

You have 2 LHS's in your area??

Wherabouts in Maine? The only 2 hobby shops carrying trains (other than 3 rail O gause) that I know of within a 2 hours drive of me are The Craft Barn in Ellsworth and Maine Model Works in Falmouth.

As for MEC - read Iain Rice's article on building 'Roque Bluff' starting in the October, 2003 MR. He also did an earlier article about kitbashing an MEC U18B in the August, 2003 MR. Here's a link to the article: http://www.trains.com/content/dynamic/articles/000/000/004/367pnrkx.asp

Here's a link to a Brit's MEC layout: http://www.blessedbe.co.uk/James/Layout/railway.htm

And to Mike McNamara's home page: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mikemcnh/flatcar/mec.html

Andre

[retsignalmtr]

several years ago i went to a hobby shop in north white plains in westchester county ny with two of my co-workers who were looking for a specific item. while there i bought on the spur of the moment several ho cars. when i was leaving i heard the owner tell my co workers who were still looking that if they weren't going to buy something they could leave. i went back in to return the cars and get my money back but they pulled my back out and said to forget it. i never went there again even though it was on my way home. he went out of business and all i can say is good riddance. but i have had good experiances at other shops that i go to and have also bought over the phone from wholesalers.

[Anonymous]

I shop at the Train Shop in Santa Clara as well. This is a killer train store. They must have 20,000 little detail parts in hundreds of boxes behind the counter. I always buy from them if I can.

I have notiiced that Vern is nicer to me since I bought a few locomotives from him.....

Guy

Guy

[Roadtrp]

<<and if you start acting like a CUSTOMER instead of a PMS housewife looking for the right kind of dishwashing liquid, you'll get a lot further along. >>

Either you're not married, you're confident your wife will never see this, or you are in a HEAP O TROUBLE!!!

[(-D][(-D]

[rexhea]

If my LHS has it or can get it, he gets my dollar.

I hate ordering from the Internet biggies even though I do on occasion. Brrrrrrrrr! I like that 1on 1you get at an LHS.

My LHS is focused on RC and only has a limited selection of MRR items. However, he will order anything I need from Walthers or other distributors without shipping charge and at least match the internet price. I stopped by the shop yesterday and bought a Woodland Scenics item marked at list $7.99. He sold it to me for $7.00 and then marked another 10% off. He still made money.

LHS as much as possible.

REX

[Tom Eisentrager]

Good idea if you have a good one. In my area [Central Queensland Australia] there is 1 shop but carries little of my wants. Brisbane [400 miles] has some good hobby shops but I have found that I can get quicker service from England or USA. I'm N gauge and modelling USA. Example - Atlas #6 remote switches priced here AUD$37.50 - Got in 11 days air post from Rio Grande AUD$22.50 each inc postage. Another thing a bit slow here is MR mag. July issue is latest on shop rack here. I now subscribe direct and have October issue.
Tom

[twhite]

Of COURSE, support you LHS. I'm fortunate, I suppose, I've got two great ones in my area of Sacramento, CA. Bruce's and Railroad Hobbies. I've been using them for years, only use a catalogue if there's something that they have right in stock NOW and for an INCREDIBLE introductory price. Otherwise, I'd much prefer to go in and browse and talk with fellow model railroaders. I hear so much about the lack of 'Customer Service' these days, but you know, that's a two-way street. How many of us really know how to act like a 'customer' anymore? I've seen people go into a hobby shop and act like they're in Macy's looking for a pair of gym socks. Ain't that way, folks. You're going into a store looking for ADVICE, right? Hobby shops are SPECIALTY stores. I've found that if I go in looking for something specific, I'll either find it, or get an explanation of why it hasn't arrived yet. I don't get all torn up because my Sinohara turnouts haven't arrived from the dealer yet, it's a small, select business catering to a small, select --I hope--clientele. These places aren't department stores, and by and large, we're not customers off the street attracted by the sale signs, right? Hey, the hobby shops I've visited the past few years are Light Years ahead of what used to be when I was just getting started. I've found that these guys are here to help--after all, they're in business--and if you start acting like a CUSTOMER instead of a PMS housewife looking for the right kind of dishwashing liquid, you'll get a lot further along. Sorry about the rant, but sometimes we expect too much too fast, and in our hobby, that ain't the way it happens, sometimes. And what if you get a major Lemon from the discounter mail order firm? Every tried to get through to a human being to complain? Think about it, fellas.

[Kimble]

Hi,

I'm getting back into MRR after 20 years (we had a big layout as a kid) and after reading these posts, I have mixed feelings. I think I'll patronize one of the two LHS in my area. One, when I stopped in to look around, told me the my choice of gauge, HO, is out of style. I got the impression his shop would not be the place to look for support. The other is much smaller, but seems to have a great number of rolling stock of our state's RRs. I like that. You don't see too many Maine Central or Bangor Aroostook cars or locos in the magazines.

After reading these posts, I think I'll patronize my LHS, but buy large orders, like track from online, Get the bulk stuff cheap and the nice stuff from the LHS.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomotive3

I'm not a heavy hitter and shop around, that's the American way.

We have a first class 7,200 sq ft diversified hobby shop(all scales) here in Grand Rapids Mi.
The train dept is generally staff by experience modelers. On Saturday
when I was in there one of the staff was disassembling an N gauge loco
for a 12 year old. Turns out the loco needed a new drive shaft and was instructed how to order one from Bachmann.

I didn't think we had in this town any 12 year olds into the hobby. SURPRISED!

Our folks are experienced, helpful & knowledgeable

My experience with them (Ryders, correct?) has been just the opposite- at all of their many stores. I feel like I'm a nuisance to them and taking up their valuable time. I also think they are overpriced. I have only gone there when I had to have something right away and couldn't wait for shipping from elsewhere. I have driven across the state for something I wanted just to avoid them though I'm sure I payed for it in gas.
Most of what I buy is from eBay or Standard Hobby Supply advertised in MR.
There is a small HS here on the West Coast of the Big Pond but they stock very little.

[Don Gibson]

LOCAL HOBBY SHOPS vary - just like people do. Some get into the business for income producing retirement. Some get into the business because they're RR. hobbyists. All have to make a buck to suceed.

LHS's have an IMPORTANT advantage: You can see, touch, and feel before you buy.
Sometimes they have people who are in the hobby that work there.
To see something requires STOCK, and stocking cost's money.

I read complaints about LHS "Service". How much 'Service do you get from Mail Order discounters? or when buying a product sight-unseen. Got a problem? Just call, right?

To each his own. (I prefer to buy BUY from who carries the inventory brands I WANT - and ask questions from knowlegable people - wherever!).

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by on30francisco

I live in San Francisco. There is only one good hobby shop in this city. It has a fair selection of train supplies but they sell at list prices. The clerks are helpful and friendly but the store is sort of cliquish. There is a great hobby shop in Santa Clara called The Train Shop. It is strictly model railroading. They truly cater to all scales. They sell below list price and the clerks are very helpful and friendly. They also have a great inventory of supplies. Since I'm modeling in On30 and HO I scratchbuild a lot. I get my supplies either at The Train Shop or Pearls which is a big discount arts and crafts store in SF. They have an excellent selection of stripwood, styrene, brass and plastic shapes, glues and paints. They are much cheaper than our local hobby shop. I also shop for big items (eg. locos) on-line.

I'll second the excellence of The Train Shop in Santa Clara. Their inventory is both wide and deep as well as discounted roughly 20% off retail. The gang in there is also knowledgeable, helpful and friendly. It's too bad TTS doesn't have a website. OTOH, they do a LOT of mailorder without a site. If you really need something, give them a try. There's a good chance they'll have it or at least know where you can get it if it's actually available. Their phone is [phone].

NOTE: They're not paying me to say that. I've been a customer for over 20 years. It's a real pleasure having them give me the bus.....er, I mean, doing business with them[:D]


Vern Cole, if you ever read this: [bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow]

Note: I doubt the bowing will help. Vern seems to prefer various financial instruments - cash, credit cards, gold bullion, letters of credit, first born child, but it's worth a try. [:D]

Andre


Andre

[Anonymous]

I agree, supporting local suppliers is always a good idea. I have two or three LHS, closest being about 1hr away, the furthest being about 1hr 30mins. Over the past year I've bought large items from one of them, but also from online suppliers. I'll generally try to buy locally if I can, but if they don't have the item I'll order online. I also tend to take into account cost - it costs me around £15 in fuel and parking charges to travel to my LHS (diesel is overpriced over here!), while typical shipping charges are around £4. Sad to say that, from an economic viewpoint, the LHS will always win. However, I'm one of those people who like to see what they're getting for the money, especially with expensive things like locos, etc, so I tend to go to my LHS for those and order the harder-to-find items online.

[on30francisco]

I live in San Francisco. There is only one good hobby shop in this city. It has a fair selection of train supplies but they sell at list prices. The clerks are helpful and friendly but the store is sort of cliquish. There is a great hobby shop in Santa Clara called The Train Shop. It is strictly model railroading. They truly cater to all scales. They sell below list price and the clerks are very helpful and friendly. They also have a great inventory of supplies. Since I'm modeling in On30 and HO I scratchbuild a lot. I get my supplies either at The Train Shop or Pearls which is a big discount arts and crafts store in SF. They have an excellent selection of stripwood, styrene, brass and plastic shapes, glues and paints. They are much cheaper than our local hobby shop. I also shop for big items (eg. locos) on-line.

[Anonymous]

I guess its a vicious cycle ..... the more we buy over the 'net, the harder it will be for most LHS to turn a profit, causing them to cut back on inventory, etc .....causing us to buy even more off of the 'net , ........etc

A really nice shop in NJ, The Model Railroad Shop in Piscataway .... its an old place with really nice people, nothing but trains including brass in stock. It is jam-packed with every little detail, scenery, scratch building supply you could ask for. The man goes to great trouble stocking all these $1.26 pieces of nothing to help modelers.

On the wall he pasted a page out of an old Model Railroader magazine. It was a real old editorial, from before the internet days (plain old mail order). It stated how we were going to ruin our LHS by going to them for all the little stuff, but when we need an engine, we pick up the phone and order it from SuperMegaTrainWorldDepotMart.

Did it happen?

Jim

[ATSFCLIFF]

Dave, I know just how you feel. Gone are the days, when you walk into a LHS where there is the friendly banter, where the staff will ask you how your layout is progressing, advise you what is new, what is a good buy, etc. Now, it is run by people who know nothing of the hobby and everything is strictly businesslike. To make things worse the prices are marked up so high that I think they will eventually kill off interest in the hobby. I have stopped purchasing anything locally and get my stuff by mail order. Believe it or not inspite of the shipping costs etc it's still cheaper!

[Anonymous]

Since I started this thread, I thought I'd report back in. Tonight I went back to the shop that got me started on this, and dropped another $30.00

Why because he's 15 minutes away, and the only shop I know of in the whole county with Woodland Scenics Foam Risers, And I wanted to have them on hand for when I get the time. I've read every post. I'm going to ask him If I continue to be a regular and buy my Kato there will he discount. If he gives me a firm no, then I'll preplan better and give my biz to the Web. For tonight Convenience wins.

[vsmith]

Being in large scale my options for hobbyshops is a little more limited, I have three good large scale stores within 30 miles, each in a opposite directions, so going takes a dileberate effort to do.

I do have 2 LHS close to my home, one is a general Hobby People chain type store, more geared to RC, little trains and NO large scale, and the other is a very good trains only shop, N-HO-O, and a little LS. I try to go to the trains only store when I need specific model related supplies, stryene, basswood, paints, books, mag's, and they now have some Trackside Details in LS, but they tend to close early. So I will use the dreaded Hobby people but only to pick up glues or paints and also basswood, xacto blades, that sort of stuff.

[darth9x9]

Within 50 miles of my house (central Maryland), there are at least 12 better known LHS. Of which one is a great discounter and mail order store. Two others offer similar pricing and are much smaller shops. The rest all charge retail and one charges retail plus 10%. I am amazed that they stay in business at all. Someone must be buying from them to keep them in business.

[Anonymous]

The local hobby shop is required for the industry to survive and market their products to the public. We should all continue to purchase both locally and otherwise because many of the local shops do not have the capital to have everything in stock. I really hesitate to order an item unless I have looked at it so I can determine the quality of the new item.

Most of the products from the major manufacturers are now fairly high in quality and we have come to expect Kato and Atlas to provide great running models, so models like these can be ordered with a high level of confidence.

I value the local dealer and residing in the Los Angeles area does provide me with some really great train shops, but the person living in many areas of the country does not have the convenience of visiting some of the best Train shops in the USA, just by driving an hour or so. I also get to visit Caboose Hobbies in Denver fairly often since my position does require travel and I go to the Train shops when I travel to find things that have not been offered recently and may be out of stock back home.