RESTORED PHOTOS: Alclad Metalizer Comparison to Prototype Budd SS Car

[AntonioFP45]

Hi Kevin, Mike

Thank you very much. I enjoy this forum and am hoping that more passenger rail related topics will continue to be posted.

mbinsewi

I agree with Kevin Antonio, this has inspired me to keep going with my "work in progress" passenger train.

Thank you,

Mike.

 

[mbinsewi]

I agree with Kevin Antonio, this has inspired me to keep going with my "work in progress" passenger train.

Thank you,

Mike.

[SeeYou190]

Antonio, This is a great thread and thank you for restoring the photographs.

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These are excellent and helpful examples.

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-Kevin

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[AntonioFP45]

Hi Crew ,

I'm grateful that modelers still find this older thread useful.

As per request, the photos on this thread have been restored. I was no longer a member of Photobucket which, apparently, is why the photos were blurred out.

I'll restore the photos on the other metalizer related threads as I get time, including the step-by-step process.

Again, thank you for your kind comments, questions, critiques, and suggestions,

[AntonioFP45]

Lately it's been challenging for me to go at metalizing "full steam" due to interruptions, mainly job related. I'm pushing to make time to enjoy this. Here's a Budd-Bagg dorm that I recently metalized for a friend. Here it has not been weathered yet.

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I'm jumping back on a Walthers Mainline car that I posted about a few months back. Hopefully I'll be posting new info and photos on it soon.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/249188/2780928.aspx

[AntonioFP45]

The issue of "scaling down" has been mentioned on other forums.

For this simplified system, visual scale is not an issue.  We can actually come close to matching 1/87th to 1:1. The dark gray to white tonal color range, for the basecoat, is intended to represent the prototype manufacturers' metal tones....not for scaling down.

Unlike colors, such as UP Armour Yellow, or Soo Line Red, Alclad2 metalizer scales itself due to it's reflective characteristics.  The clear coats tone down the sheen & reflectivity.  With this, you can match your particular prototype's finish quite closely, put the model on an indoor layout, with appropriate lighting and it would look prototypical.

As mentioned, I didn't expect the light reflectivity and base color tones between the HO model and Prototype Budd car to be so similar.  On this outing,  no matter what parallel angle we viewed model and prototype unit from,.......... whatever the prototype Budd reflected, the HO Budd reflected as well. It was an unexpected, pleasant surprise!



Prototype modeler John Fiscella, of the Passenger Car List, mentioned concerns regarding layout lighting and color perception. I mentioned to Mr. Hipp of Alclad that some modelers are very selective when it comes to accurate paint colors. Yet, many of us run trains under poor or odd-colored lighting (I was in this category too!).  Understandably, for decades, most of us have been content with the traditional, inexpensive ceiling mounted 60 to 75 watt incandescent bulbs or the F40T-12 (now T-8) florescent bulbs. Florida East Coast red looks more "strawberry-like" under 6000K florescent lights.

IMHO, Just as this Alclad product can resemble polished stainless steel, lighting is available in various colors that closely resembles outdoor conditions and won't negatively impact our color perception. We can "fine tune" lighting to represent specific times of the day.  There are plenty of guides available on line, but the general KISS rule of thumb for lighting that I prefer to use is:

2800K - 3000K: Bright sunny day at 12 Noon->1:00pm hour
3300K - 3500K: Sunny day w/ scattered clouds at 10am-11am hour  
5400K - 6300K: Dawn to 8am hour (as on this outing) and/or 5pm to sunset hour.

IMHO, getting a model to match the prototype, to me, is what all of this has been about. Not matching a model to lighting!  My preference is to adjust or replace the layout's lighting instead; which today is doable even for modelers on a budget. LED lighting is coming down in price.

I have two lighting sources in my room. You will notice that, just as on the prototypes, lighting will influence the metal finishes appearance to our eyes.

 Warm temperature incandescent light:

Cool temperature energy saver light:

I humbly, but strongly believe that for model railroading we still need to use the K.I.S.S principle, otherwise some modelers won't want to be bothered with something that involves too much fuss! From the feedback I've gotten over the past few years, this is why modelers in the past were hesitant to try Alclad or DCC. Simplify it...and they will try it! That's how I was won over to DCC.

Silver painting SS passenger cars, for me,....never again. Metalizing if fun!

 

[AntonioFP45]

Hi guys,

This is for those of you that were asking me about the Aqua Gloss Clear that I've switched over to. For me, this is much easier than Future Floor Finish. While I normally airbrush the Aqua #600, you can also immerse parts in it as well and have them ready for handling in 20 minutes.  Here's a vid clip of a gentleman using it to coat a scale helicopter cockpit enclosure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFhkMJQmYwo

If you utilize the immersion method, just use a funnel to pour the Aqua back into the bottle after finishing.

[AntonioFP45]

DCFixer,

Hi guy!  So glad to see you back on the forum.  I remember reading a while back that you had to take a break due to some challenges that you were facing.  I strongly hope that all is well with you.  Thanks for the encouraging words.  Looking forward to seeing more threads and posts of your talented work.

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Hello Flashwave,

I last saw the Circus Train some years back and took photos. The cars were painted, but it would be helpful to know the name of the color that was applied.   If the color is designated as Platinum Mist, then going with Floquil's formula would not be a bad way to go but to me, the circus cars appear darker than the Platinum Mist finishes I've seen before, including on Amtrak's equipment.  

I don't want to jump the gun and recommend a specific Alclad undertone and be far off base.  However, if I were doing these cars, I'd start with light gray samples.   Since the circus train is coming to my town in the near future, I'll include it in my swatch sample comparison trips and hopefully will be able to post the info here.

It's hard to tell from my photos if the corrugated sections of some of the circus trains Budds are unpainted and in their original SS finish.  If so, I'd Alclad those sections with a light gray as the undertone (basecoat) and cover them with the darker Alclad metalizer #ALC 102.  But of course, always a smart move to make a test sample first.

 

[Flashwave]

AntonioFP45

Cedarwooten,

Thank you so kindly.  But, honestly, this is something that with a little practice most modelers that can handle an airbrush can do.......and hopefully they will.   The new line that Alclad is going to introduce, from my understanding, will make the process even easier.

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TPatrick,

Thanks for that info on "Exposdisc".  I will check into this right away as I plan on taking more prototype to model photos in the future.

*Cough*Cans*Cough* What?

Anyway, Since you mentioned Amtrak, and their painted Platinum colors therein, what would you reccomend for a Ringling Circus Car?

[dcfixer]

Hey Antonio,

Man, you really get around these days.  I saw it over on PCL.  I can't believe how much time you have spent on this project.  Very impressive.  Keep up the good work, my friend, and thanks for sharing.

DC

[AntonioFP45]

Cedarwooten,

Thank you so kindly.  But, honestly, this is something that with a little practice most modelers that can handle an airbrush can do.......and hopefully they will.   The new line that Alclad is going to introduce, from my understanding, will make the process even easier.

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TPatrick,

Thanks for that info on "Exposdisc".  I will check into this right away as I plan on taking more prototype to model photos in the future.

[cedarwoodron]

To my good friend and coworker, bravo for a job well done! Your painstaking research and careful work on this is impressive and deserving of master status for it's level of complexity. I am getting close to letting you have my Proto 1000 Budd RDC to give the "Tony Treatment " to! Cedarwoodron TBTHS

[tpatrick]

This is a very interesting, even fascinating project. Very well done! I wonder whether your blue sky problem might be cured by custom white balance. The is a product called "expodisc" which allows you to set a custom white balance quickly and easily, if you have a DSLR. Check it out at one of the major photo retailers (perhaps B&H or Adorama) and see if it might work for you.

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks for the emails and thoughts sent to my hotmail account, guys. As always critiques are appreciated and valued.

Yes, it was amazing for us for because I didn't expect any of the swatch samples to match a prototype Budd's surface so closely, including reflectivity.

On my next "Model to Prototype Comparison" trip, I will be taking additional metalized cars and if I can borrow one, a Walthers Pine series car and will take notes.

Keep in mind that even with prototype cars in decent condition, the SS appearance is going to vary slightly. Hence, the flexibility of being able to get a specific look with the use of the gray undertones and clears. Seems like a win-win scenario.

To the Amtrak modeler that emailed me.  Unless you're only modeling Horizon Fleet and the Acela....this process will, imho, work very well for: Heritage Budds, Amfleet, Viewliners, Superliners, Metroliner/Cab cars. Also for VIA Rail.

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On another note: I also hope that this thread and photos helps change the minds of our fellow modelers who have stated that there's been no hobby paint product on the market that closely resembles the appearance of SS passenger cars. What I found interesting on this trip is that no matter what angle I took photos with the camera, the model, specified swatch, and prototype car seemed to match each other quite decently.

I still intend on taking distant perspective shots (between 70 and 100 yards) on my next visit to a prototype unit. I couldn't do it here due to my arriving too late with the sun shining just above the trees during the 8:00 hour.

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I nearly deleted this shot in disdain (as I did a lot of others), but then I realized that the BLUE SKY was reflecting off of both, model and prototype! Sounds goofy, but I found this to be quite intriguing as this doesn't happen as easily with silver paint.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Crew!,

It's taken a while but  after finishing the primary swatch plates, my wife and I took a drive to the Florida Railroad Museum (Parrish, Florida) to look at a prototype stainless steel Budd passenger car.  It's an  85ft sleeper, ex-Pennsy car named "Bradenton".  We wanted to perform comparisons between:

A. The car's Stainless Steel sufaces.
B. The Alclad swatch samples I worked on.
C. The Walthers Budd car I metalized to SCL's scheme back in 2010.

This was a basic morning "dry run" as I didn't bring the stands to prop up my model and had left home late for the 1/2 hour drive.  I had intended to be there earlier at the crack of dawn.  The sun was rising
and playing havoc with my photo efforts as was the blue sky, so we couldn't get good distance shots of the car and model.

But we found this to be a fun outing! My wife enjoyed it and she was a great help as I asked her to be blunt in her critiques. She also provided the suggestions where to shoot from as I scurried around trying to take photo shots from shadows cast by trees behind the car.  I took many photos but had to discard a significant portion due to the sunlight.  For an exercise like this, the ideal conditions would be to shoot on a cloudy, overcast day as stainless steel tends to cast a neutral tonal appearance.

For this thread I'll provide the basic information as there are a lot of details, but I'll save that for the next trip to view another SS car as well as the Amtrak Silver Star's Heritage and Amfleet units.

1) SWATCH MATERIALS: 1" x 4' PVC tube and a 2" x 25" corrugated window blinds piece. In the photo I've already applied various shades of gray (there is 1 white section on each panel), clear coated them, and applied tape with each color's name on it. On the corrugated panel, the labels are on the backside.



2) I became intrigued with the idea of using the blinds panel since it was corrugated and I wanted something that, by design, would reflect light differently from a smooth tube.

Each panel was airbrushed with the Alclad metalizer at 12-15 psi followed by one coat of clear.


3) We arrived shortly after sunrise. This car is in need of refurbishing, but her corrugation still looks attractive. I wiped a few spots with a cloth.  A good buffing with an ammonia based mix will make her surfaces much more reflective again.

Side shot:

 

4) To me this was the interesting part. I held and photographed the tube against the car's side at different angles, even flipping the tube around. I asked my wife each time to choose the tube section that, she felt, most closely resembled the car's surfaces. She consistently, chose the swatch section that was medium gray (that resembles NYC Dark Gray!). It is hard to tell in the photos due to the sunny sky's influence, but I wanted show what we were actually comparing. Again, this was a "fun, dry run".



5) As you can see the blue sky was starting to really push its influence when we attempted photos from a distance.



6) Next, 1st photo is with my wife holding the Alcladed Walthers car.  On the 3rd photo I'm holding the unit.  We were comparing "a Budd with a Budd" :



What gave us both a big smile was that inspite of the varying lighting conditions and the grime on the car's surface, overall the metalized medium gray tone on the Walthers car seemed to scale well with the full sized Budd car, Bradenton.

After about 1/2 hour we left as the museum's train crew and visitors started arriving for the special run. The train's crew looked very sharp and professional in their uniforms. We couldn't stay as we had another commitment.

Overall this was enjoyable and I hope to do this again soon with other prototype SS cars. I plan on having more metalized models on hand finished in various sheens and weathering appearances. more prototype passenger rail cars with additional model passenger cars.

I sincerely hope that this will be helpful to those of you that would like to metalize your SS passenger cars.

I'm forwarding this thread to Mr. Hipp of Alclad as he is in the process of developing an Alclad line, specifically for model railroaders, and appreciates input.