Best weights for too-light locomotive?

[stumpiesgrump]

goodmornin',  also available at sport shops is a spool of hollow lead; can be more easily worked with than shot or weights.    -stev

[locoi1sa]

Mark.

 I believe what was meant was lead was the easiest heavy metal to work with. Most of us do not have the tooling and equipment to be working with pure tungsten or even a tungsten alloy. Lead sheets has been very good to me for adding and replacing weights on my locos and rolling stock. It is the best medium I have found that works for me. I have also used BBs, bird shot, nuts and bolts, rocks, Penneys, and I even picked up a box car at a yard sale that had a roll of quarters in it.

  Use what is handy and easy for you to use.

       Pete

[doccobol]

One of the replies mentioned that lead is the heaviest metal to add for weights.  Tungsten is used in the automotive industry for balancing engine crankshafts.  Its much heavier than lead.  Try a good local engine repair shop for more info.

Another response mentioned bird shot.  Inside an engine body there are the magnetic blocks surrounding the armature.  I was checking out shot for weighting some tanker cars, I found you can buy steel shot which may stick to these magnets in an engine and probably cause problems of interference or electrical shorting inside; and you can get copper shot which is not magnetic, also bb pellets are made of lead but a little bigger.  Walmart sells 600 count Daisy brand steel shot for about $9.00 and 150 count copper shot for about $5.00. I like the idea of using copper shot, its not corrosive and if inside a tanker or other car is invisible and if your carriages have under side detailing will not detract from the appearance.  I have seen heavy solder wound around axles, but was not attractive.

 

Have a great day

Mark

[Motley]

That does sound like a good idea. I will try using the screw and nut on my challenger.

[richhotrain]

locoi1sa

Rich.

 How about a small machine screw and nut to hold the lead to the underside of a truck? Done it a few times myself. On one of my 2-10-0 locos the pilot was too light. all it took was a piece of sheet lead about 1/4x1/4 inch and one screw to hold it to the underside just behind the axle. It can not be seen unless you turn it over.

      Pete

Pete, thanks for that tip.  I like the idea of screwing the weight to the pilot truck because you can undo it if you are not satisfied with it.  That's the problem with 2-part epoxy.  Once you apply the epoxy, it is permanent.

Rich

[locoi1sa]

Rich.

 How about a small machine screw and nut to hold the lead to the underside of a truck? Done it a few times myself. On one of my 2-10-0 locos the pilot was too light. all it took was a piece of sheet lead about 1/4x1/4 inch and one screw to hold it to the underside just behind the axle. It can not be seen unless you turn it over.

      Pete

[Marlene]

Thanks to all of you for good ideas. I was wondering what the densest material I could use was (most weight for the size) and it sounds like lead is the winner.

Yes, my locomotives are unpowered, so there's room inside to add some weight. And yes, I can get inside the loco thanks to Kato's design. I would not have thought that I needed to add weight to both ends of the loco, so that's good to know!

[richhotrain]

Incidentally, galaxy, I just re-read your reply, and it is excellent.  Nice job !  Seriously.

Rich

[richhotrain]

LOL

galaxy, you are a stitch!   

Next time, try decaffeinated coffee.

Rich

[jeffrey-wimberly]

The original poster always has the option of chiming in about the information given so far and commenting on whether any of it has been helpful. That as yet hasn't happened. I know of two parts of the NMRA standards that discuss car weight. RP 20.1 and Car Weight. I don't make it a habit of reading extensively as I can read for only a few minutes before having to wait for the words to stop moving around and doing weird things. If anybody knows of other standards please list them.

[galaxy]

richhotrain

This thread is disappointing.  The OP asks a great question, but the answers are simply pointing out a variety of weighting alternatives: lead sheet, bird shot, BBs, nails, pennies, whatever.

Although the OP is asking about N scale steamers, the same issue applies to HO scale steamers.

I have a bunch of HO scale steamers, and each poses its own problems with derailments due to the movement of the pilot truck and/or the trailing truck....

Here is what the OP said:

Marlene

I have a great new Kato bullet train (N-Scale), but the nose of the locomotive is too light. The trailing locomotive can't go around my turns without slipping off the track. (But the forward locomotive and other cars are fine.)

1. Is there a rule-of-thumb for how much weight I should add, or is it trial and error?
2. Suggestions for weights I can fit on an N-scale locomotive?

Thank you!

richhotrain:

 

1}The last I knew is that a "bullet train" should be a modern "acela" style loco and train, NOT A STEAMER!!!

The nose and trailing train are probably light weight because, if designed like the Bachmann Acela sets, the electrical "propulsion part" is actually in the middle of the train, so it is always pushing an end and trailing an end.

2} I suggested thin lead sheets as they are easy to cut and form to any shape and fit into any space there is available in a tiny N scale train.Thin sheets can be glued and stacked to reach the desired weight. The only thing I didn't answer was "trial and error or rules and regulations" part of the question. Both can work. If one seeks out the NMRA rules on what the weight of the nose end and trailing end of a BULLET train should be, if there is the answer, weigh it and add lead sheets as needed to the correct weight. A google search can probably turn up this info.Just the right amount will be fine as to heavy and it can still derail, Ohterwise trial and eror method is always there also.

3}Now if the bullet nose and end are sealed parts, with no apparent way to open them, then the OP would have to possibly drill a hole in the bottom and drop in some glue and a BB or two or three to reach the ideal weight. The BBs will settle to the bottom into the glue and stay. Some tape temporarily over the hole will keep the glue from oozing out. Sorry I failed to mention that.

4} HO scale and N scale, while it would SEEM the same priciples would apply, are still TOTALLY DIFFERENT in how they act and respond! AN HO scale can also benefit from cuttable, moldable thin sheets of lead as well to fit into any space there is available in the HO loco. Or sit atop a truck possibly and not interfere with the moving parts.perhaps just one scrap of a single thin sheet of lead cutting will be enough to weigh down the trucks, and the lead can be cut into any shape to conform to the top or bottom of the truck.

5}The location, in N scale, or in HO scale certainly can be trial and error.

6} I am lucky in that My Other Half {MOH} is also into trains..though I in HO and MOH in Nscale. MOH has an N scale "bullet trian" and the drive mechanism is in the second car, NOT the "loco". It has seemed to have no problem navigating our Christmas tree layout Nscale tracks. BUt Not all N scale "Bullet trains" are created equally.

I wish the OP luck,and richhotrain, you too, with your HO scale endeavors.

Does that help you any?

[Train Modeler]

For standards/recommended practices there really is not much better place than the NMRA at nmra.org.  They have all kinds of helpful information.   Here is a link to the weight question as it related to cars.

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/rp-20_1.html

This also has some additional tips on how to avoid derailing.   While this is for cars, it helps explain the idea of increased length requiring more weight, but not too much, nor too little.   IMHO, I would weight the loco to 4 x that of cars, if not more.   However, as your question is worded, it sounds like you are speaking of a non-powered loco.   In which case, the above referenced RP is appropriate.   Note that this RP recommends equal weight on wheels. 

I use soft lead from fishing sinkers many times as it's pretty moldable when heated some(also cut it and press it with pliers to shape).  You can then push it into the nose to conform to the space.   Before you add the weight, make sure you check the weight of the loco/car for each truck as well as the total to get a good balance and then get the amount of weight you need to add.  After that you can better understand where/how it needs to be installed.   There also shredded lead which is easily compacted and formed--the problem with this is that it is not very dense.

Richard

 

 

[richhotrain]

This thread is disappointing.  The OP asks a great question, but the answers are simply pointing out a variety of weighting alternatives: lead sheet, bird shot, BBs, nails, pennies, whatever.

Although the OP is asking about N scale steamers, the same issue applies to HO scale steamers.

I have a bunch of HO scale steamers, and each poses its own problems with derailments due to the movement of the pilot truck and/or the trailing truck.

Using stuff like pennies, nails, bird shot, etc. is impractical because often there is nowhere to mount these types of weights.  What seems to work best for me is the lead sheet approach on the trucks or solder wire wrapped around the axles.

Sometimes, though, it is next to impossible to wrap solder wire around the axles depending upon the design of the trucks.

Often, it is hard to mount lead sheet on the trucks without interfering with the movement of the trucks.  Plus, it is difficult to keep the lead sheet staying on the truck.  Depending upon the size of the lead sheet, double faced tape may not hold the lead sheet in place for very long.  Some have suggested the use of 2-part expoxy to permanently affix the lead sheet to the truck, but I have never tried that.

Do you put the lead sheet on the top of the truck or on the underside of the truck?  On the underside of the truck where there is usually more room to mount lead sheet, your risk reducing the clearance when passing over track related items such as turnout points and frogs, detection equipment, etc.

So, what do you guys use for weight on the pliot trucks and trailing trucks, and where do you mount the weights, and how do you secure the weights ?

Rich

[galaxy]

You have a  variety of weights available to you.

As Jeffrey mentions, lead is good and sheet lead is available in thin thickness and is easy to cut and shape.

here is a supplier:

http://www.rotometals.com/Lead-Sheet-s/31.htm

Also, as mentioned birdshot and BBs MAY work..you are talking N scale..so a BB could be HUGE to work with compared to Scale..

 

[GP-9_Man11786]

You could also try using bird shot, small finish nails (or any Scandinavian nails for that matter ). Metal BBs may work too.

[BroadwayLion]

cudaken

 All so make sure the truck of the rear engine is not catching on body details or on anything on the inside. All so check the gauge and make sure the wheels flanges line up.

 

 Cuda Ken

 

HEY! Good Idea. I have one trainset that always derails in the same spot, and only when it is running alternate trips (ie the lead end is different.) I have inspected the tracks until my little HOS track track inspectors are all worn out and it still does it.

Time to pull that train into the shop and see what else might be the thing.

[cudaken]

 All so make sure the truck of the rear engine is not catching on body details or on anything on the inside. All so check the gauge and make sure the wheels flanges line up.

 Cuda Ken

[selector]

You can sometimes harvest weights from other rolling stock, or you can use pennies or even heavily leaded solder wound around things and/or glued into place.  The trick is always to find the right mass to fit the volume available, so as Jeff has said, shaping lead is often the best bet. 

Crandell

[jeffrey-wimberly]

You can form a piece of lead to any size you need. Works for me.

[Marlene]

I have a great new Kato bullet train (N-Scale), but the nose of the locomotive is too light. The trailing locomotive can't go around my turns without slipping off the track. (But the forward locomotive and other cars are fine.)

1. Is there a rule-of-thumb for how much weight I should add, or is it trial and error?
2. Suggestions for weights I can fit on an N-scale locomotive?

Thank you!