Distance between block signals

[Anonymous]

I was thinking about put block signals on my layout but almost the second I though of it something else came a cross my mind what is the distance two block signals?????

[cwclark]

Block signals really don't have a prescribed distance...the engineer when spotting the target, must look in his rulebook to find out what he must do...usually the rule book will explain what to do and what speed to run the train at between so and so mile marker and so and so mile marker...block signals are dictated by using mile markers located on the sides of the track...as a modeler I try to put them as close as 3"- 6"" to as much as 12" ahead of the siding or interchange that I want to control using signals.... Chuck[:D]

[Anonymous]

If you are talking about dividing your layout into blocks and then putting in signals the blocks should be shorter then the trains that you are going to run so you wont have one train in two or more blocks.

Have a blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY

Bob

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TEFFY

If you are talking about dividing your layout into blocks and then putting in signals the blocks should be shorter then the trains that you are going to run so you wont have one train in two or more blocks.

Have a blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY

Bob

You have the right idea Bob, but you said it backwards. The blocks should be LONGER than the length of the longest train. Trains will always occupy two blocks when they cross a boundry. The goal is to keep them from occupying THREE at the same time.

Real railroad's blocks are generally between 2 and 5 miles.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Almost got it right.

#1 - the engineer does not see a signal and look in his rule book. If he/she doesn't know what the signal indication is and what has to be done, they have no business on the engine.
#2 - signals are placed to allow enough distance to allow the engineer to take whatever action is necessary to comply with the signal. Issues which affect this are track speed, grades, curves, type of train, etc.

[cwclark]

I beg to differ that it is not true....I have an SP "rulebook" from the late 80's which comes out to railroad workers everytime a rule has changes made..some target signals are generic that follow generic rules but others (and many of them) do have rules that apply pretaining to the signaling...look in the back of the rule book and see the different signal configurations...most of them either tell the train to stop, go, slow to speed such and such before entering the next block, prepare to stop at the next block, stop at next block and then proceed at speed such and such, or speed will not be in excess of such and such when entering the diverging route, ect...then in the time schedule you will see from mile marker such and such and mile marker such and such rule "83" or rule "78" will apply within block such and such and block such and such.... the engineer is to study the rules before he takes out his train so that he will know what to do when he enters each block where rules apply...I didn't mean that he literally pulls the rule book out at every target, he should know the rules by studying the rulebook before the train leaves for it's destination...

[BRAKIE]

Depends..On the C&O the block signals could be a mile apart or closer.At Limeville Ky where the Northern and Cincinnati Subdivisions join the Russell Sub you could see 5 block signals ahead..The signals was less then 1/2 mile apart.[:0] This also appeared at Cattlettsburg(Ky) where the Big Sandy and
Kanawha Subdivisions join the Russell sub at BS Junction.

clinchvalley is correct..But the fireman(in the days of fireman) had to know the block signals as well as the head brakemen also had to know the block signal.Today the conductor must know the block signal indications..Now a Assistant road foreman of engines had to know the block signals as well.You see the ARFE had to get so much throttle time in a month..
FYI.Remember the engine crew would call out the signals.Like so.
Engineer:High Green or what ever the signal indication is.
Fireman: He would repeat what the engineer said after checking the signal..In later years the head brakeman would repeat the signals.Of course the conductor and rear brakeman would also know the meaning of each signal as well.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I have a current rule book, and as far as I can tell almost every railroad west of Chicago subscribes to these general rules. Then the special rules and instructions are given to the crew with the subdivision timetable. That is where details specific to a given line are spelled out.

Please don't mistake block signals with interlocking signals. They all instruct the engineer as to how to move the train, but their locations and how they function is rather different.

[BRAKIE]

Big Boy,You also have daily bulletins that cover temporary changes in the rule book and employee time table..So nothing is cut and dry as it may appear..
When I worked on the PRR/PC and C&O under the Chessie/CSX banner you would need to look hard for a rule book or employee time table in the train crews grips.Plainly put we did not carry them as we knew the rules and signals but,would check the daily bulletins for any changes and get our copy..

[AntonioFP45]

Nedarb,

Functioning block signals really do add a very nice "spark of realism" to a layout!

Just curious: Are you running DC or DCC?

[NHRRJET]

Employees who are qualified in train and engine service must be qualified on those portions of the operating rules that pertain to their jobs, that includes all signals used on their railroad, and in some instances other railroad(s) they may operate over. T&E service employees must take a yearly written test on the operating rules, which includes signals.
When I went to locomotive engineer's school, the final exam included 100 signals; we had to give the name, indication and matching cab signal aspect!
If a signal aspect is changed by the rr, they will issue a Bulletin Order and/or general order indicating that change.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Thanks Richard. Everybody that runs a train understands every possible signal aspect they will see on the section of railroad they are qualified to run on. The railroad does not just pop up signals that will show any indication. Question for those who know railroading by reading a rule book - how does a railroad place a signal into service? The possible indications any signal can display are spelled out in special instructions and any signal not displaying one of those signals must be interpreted as the most restrictive indication possible by that signal.
It is rare that railroads look at their rule book while operating - they already know it.

Larry
Retired Chessie System engineer.

[darth9x9]

Also, while watching the video series by Railraod Video Productions that is an Amtrak cab ride of the Capitol Limited from Pittsburgh to Washington DC, I noticed that the engineer was calling out each signal as they passed them with the conductor confirming. So I guess it depends on the railroad and time period you model.

[ClinchValleySD40]

I believe CSX now also calls signals over the radio. If you've got a scanner track side it can let you know when a train is coming if you railfanning signalled territory.

[Don Gibson]

SINCE we are modelers, not actual RR engineers the best we can do is SIMULATE the prototype - within limited space.

For modelers: block signals should be at each mainline GAP - facing each way - indicating occupancy at least two blocks ahaead AND preferably with indication of mainline switches (turnouts) thrown against the oncoming train (to prevent derailments).

ONE system that has this (not the only one) is Integrated Signal Systems

[bruce22]

I use my signals to indicate the turnout position, accordingly ,they are located in a position so I can readily see them.

[NHRRJET]

I think what some of you need to know and understand is that there are 2 basic types of signalling; 251 and 261 territory. In 251 territory, traffic can go in only one direction on signal indication, the signals in this case face one direction only. To run the opposite direction in 251 territory you need paperwork. The type of paperwork would be predicated on what book of rules the railroad uses. In 261 territory, traffic is signalled in both directions. Then of course there is CTC. Hope this clears some of this up.