I have (8) Broadway limited locomotives that run like Swiss watches. I have never had any problem with any of the (5) steam locomotives and (3) diesels that I own. Their pulling power is almost equivalet to a Bowser.
Fireddog26AC6000. I could not reset the dcc board. I put it on a DC layout and when I put it back on my DCC layout it would not read the CV it was in. Had to send it in.
Alton Junction
C&O 1952 wrote: Brass locomotives are great lookers, but few have DCC installed, and they are a nightmare to equip with decoders. Only two of the five brass locos that I own are DCC equipped.
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I feel your pain, but it's doable. Practically all my steam fleet is brass, not out of splurging, but out of necessity.
They take alot of work, alot of mainenance, and alot of upgrading if using older stuff, but the results are highly worthwhile if you're so inclined.
Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.
H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.
I bought the original BLI Hudson when it came out. Matter of fact, if I could have stood in line for it, I would have. I LOVED it, that is, until the decoder quit.
It sat in the roundhouse for a couple of years till I swapped all the electronics out for a Tsunami.. and now it works great.
I bought a second series Hudson and a 4-8-4 NYC Niagara?? not sure what the Central called them, and they both had issues with DCC. The 4-8-4 got a tsunami, and the Hudson went to the scrapyard. Matter of fact, the Hudson's tender is currently being recycled into an auxiliary water tender for CPR 2816...LOL
I've seen a few of the even newer BLI's run at the club, and they all look great, but run poorly....
JimStrez Cab-forwards anyone? What has been the experience thus far?
Cab-forwards anyone? What has been the experience thus far?
I have two first run cab forwards. They run great. One will pull a 25 car reefer train up a two percent grade no problem. The decoders are without the BEMF (thanks mike w) and the sound is pretty good. These locos are now at least 7 or more years old ? and have been in regular service during that time.
The Intermountains are better detailed but so far haven't been able to sort out mechanical issues. I'm hoping third run is the charm....
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Strezzy
Jim,
While I can't give you any info on the Cab Forwards from BLI, I have been less than impressed, in general, with the Paragon2 decoders in both my Dreyfuss and regular Hudson. There is only a slight improvement with low-speed response over the old QSI decoders - even after tweaking things. Both of them had shorting issues that seemed to be related to the smoke unit.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Capt. Grimek I wrote to BLI to let them know that concerns about their suddenly deleting their forum were being voiced here. I suggested that they might like to join in/respond to quell rumors...or confirm them.
I wrote to BLI to let them know that concerns about their suddenly deleting their forum were being voiced here. I suggested that they might like to join in/respond to quell rumors...or confirm them.
Capt. Grimek,
Has BLI responded?
Rich
OK, I have not had a chance to go back and fiddle with my 4-8-4, but in the meantime, the chuff sensor on my Mike is acting funny. I had this issue with the Hudson that I returned the first time.
I am now at a 100% failure ratio on my Paragon 2 Steam Locomotives.
I am curious, how have the cab-forwards been? Anyone care to comment? I just got a "2-for" ad from FDT on them so I can only guess.
cdlaudio I have a BLI brass-hybrid Dreyfuss Hudson that would short out between the drawbar and the tender. After trying to insulate the drawbar with no luck I took it off and tested the loco with only the wires connected. It ran perfectly with no drawbar. I then used the stock drawbar to make one out of styrene. With this installed it works great. It sucks to spend $350 dollars on a nice loco and have to re-engineer it. Hopefully this fix will help someone else.
I have a BLI brass-hybrid Dreyfuss Hudson that would short out between the drawbar and the tender. After trying to insulate the drawbar with no luck I took it off and tested the loco with only the wires connected. It ran perfectly with no drawbar. I then used the stock drawbar to make one out of styrene. With this installed it works great. It sucks to spend $350 dollars on a nice loco and have to re-engineer it. Hopefully this fix will help someone else.
I had the exact same issue on my Dreyfuss Hudson. On my loco it was not the draw bar that shorted, but it did factor into the short.
I figured out that the chassis on the tender is warped. When not attached to the draw bar, it would not short. When attached it would. This draw bar is forcing the tender to sit slightly off balance. The balance issue tweaked the position of the front truck. Because the truck is metal, it touches the chassis, creating the short. By putting a piece of electrical tape between the truck and the underside of the chassis I was able to insulate the contact.At some point I plan on painting on clear gel medium to insulate the area. It sounds crazy, but I dont like the black tape on the underside.
I have four BLI locos. 2 Mikes and a Cab Forward (Blueline). The Mikes, one blueline and one earlier version run fine. The Cab Fwd. runs fine but it's chuff sensor went out right away. The same with the J1e Hudson. They sent me replacements and instructions for their installation. I have a friend who will eventually install them for me. (Didn't want to mail it in.)
I have four Spectrum locos. A Shay and three Russian Decapods. The first Russian needed replacement.
I two am incensed that a brand new locomotive, costing over $200 should have ANY problems more than once in a blue moon. Say what "you" will about Tyco, but I had tons of that (admittedly much simpler) stuff as a kid and it always ran great right out of the box. Same for Athearn back in the '60s.
Even with the current overseas production methods, there is no excuse for 100s of locos to be going out the door without testing. Sure you can't test every single one of them but certainly more than they presently do!
The steamers that I"ve been running for 3 yrs. still work great. They do require more maintenance than diesel (obviously) but the point is they worked for 3 yrs. so far. Why should this be the exception rather than the rule for ANY manufacturer?
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
I've had 3 BLI C&O T-1 (Texas class 2-10-4) I never had a problem other than a broken lighting wire (my fault). Two of these were their Blueline series. I didn't appreciate the sound of the bluelines so much. Sounded a little "tinny/hollow" The QSI equipped one however sounded excellent.
I wouldn't trade them for the world! They are excellent runners and are very very heavy. This makes them useful haulers as opposed to Bachmann's H-4, H-5, and Berks (and P2K Berks for that matter) which look pretty, but barely haul anything.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Our layout has seen just about every HO manufacturer from Marx to MTH in 43 years, and I've had to deal with issues from nearly all of them. We have seven BLI locomotives on the layout, and all still run very well. That doesn't mean we haven't had porblems with them, though. As of now, our best steam locomotives have been our two PRR M1's which are currently handling a 35 car mixed freight with ease. The first one I purchased had the broken gear on the driver axle, but much like the early Genesis pacific which had the same problem, I was able to fix it with a couple of drops of Gorilla Super Glue. It's been running that way for over two years now without having to re glue it. The second one had no problems whatsoever. The other BLI locos needed little attention, and work well. I have had worse problems with other manufacturers, like our Proto 2000 steam fleet. One C&O Kanawa had valve gear issues on both sides, and I had to repair them. I had to solder jumper wires on a MTH K4 from engine to tender for better pickup. It's smoke unit died a few months ago. Brass locomotives are great lookers, but few have DCC installed, and they are a nightmare to equip with decoders. Only two of the five brass locos that I own are DCC equipped. That goes for older Rivarossi and Bachmann locos as well. For the cost of these new locos, we expect good performance out of the box, but with all of the working parts, you have to be ready for anything. BTW, my new MTH Nickel Plate Berk has a heck of a squeak in the drive somewhere. I'd better find my Labelle oil and give it the once over today!
-Stan
twhite (and why on earth does it take a degree in Engineering to get into a plastic steamer when with a brass one all you need to do is undo about 3 or 4 screws? ). Tom
(and why on earth does it take a degree in Engineering to get into a plastic steamer when with a brass one all you need to do is undo about 3 or 4 screws? ).
Tom,
You raise an interesting point. For the most part, my problems with steamers have been pilot trucks and trailing trucks derailing. Are you saying that is not a problem with brass steamers? And if it is not a problem, why not? Is it simply the sheer weight of brass steamers that keeps the trucks on the tracks?
I read somewhere that during the 'transition' era from steam to diesel that with a steamer, it took three minutes to find the problem and three days to fix it, where with a diesel it took three days to find the problem and three minutes to fix it.
I"ve been running HO scale steam for a long, LONG time, and 'tuning' is the price I pay for all of those neat rods going up and down and in and out. Brass or plastic, all of my locos go in for 'shop time' eventually. I've only recently--within the past several years-- started to pick up a few first-generation diesels, and even as stubborn as I am about steam, I can really see why the railroads decided to switch over.
Like the prototype, model steamers need a lot of TLC, simply because of all of those moving parts. But I agree with a lot of the posters--it's nice to have a steamer that works at least decently right out of the box, without having to either take it apart (something that seems to be more and more impossible with a lot of today's steam models) or send it back to the Mfgr in the hopes of either repair or replacement (and why on earth does it take a degree in Engineering to get into a plastic steamer when with a brass one all you need to do is undo about 3 or 4 screws? ).
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Yup, I have to agree............ the typical diesel has 8 or 12 wheels, all the same size and boxed into two "trucks". The gearing and mechanism to get the motor pile to the geared axles is pretty similar from one diesel to another.
Steamers obviously have several drive wheel configurations, thus requiring different - or modified - drive mechanisms to get power from the motor to the drive wheels that are powered. If that was all there was, I suspect problems would be minimal. But, there are lead and trailing trucks of all kinds, and a pletora of sidebars and rods and what have you attached to the outside of the drive wheels.
IMHO, you really can't compare steamers to diesels in that they are just two different animals.
BTW, my most favorite loco is the BLI ATSF 4-8-4.................
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Had the same problem with my M1a, I used electrical tape on the bottom of the tender and a plastic screw that came in a Kadee kit as mounting post. Cut the head off the screw so the draw bar could slip on. I forgot all about that problem till now.
Ken
I hate Rust
LOL
The last time that we had this discussion, they locked the thread, but here goes.
I have seven BLI steamers. Five of them are my best steam locos. The two that aren't are the 2-10-2 and the 2-10-4.
I have 5 Spectrum steamers. They are my 5 worst steamers.
I have 3 Proto Heritage steamers. Awesome.
There seem to be diamonds and lemons with each manufacturer.
I just think that steam engines are hard to design in the first place compared to diesels.
It sounds like I have my work cut out for me. For the record, I had been out of the hobby for 30 years and got back in 2 years ago. This "tinkering" was the part I liked.
I will keep this thread updated on the outcome so that others may benefit from any potential solutions.
Strezzy.
I have had my NWSL quarter for about 20 years now. If you have steam engines then I consider it one of the essential tools along with a wheel puller. http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/NWSL-44-4-The-Quarterer-p/53-44-4.htm The puller is another tool that comes in very handy. http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/NWSL-45-4-The-Puller-Puller-Drivers-Gears-W-p/53-45-4.htm They are not hard to use and make the job of quartering very painless.
The RR I model used a left hand lead in axle quarter. I have a $500 brass steamer that I had to re due all five drivers. For some reason the Japan built loco came with a right hand lead. It took longer to remove and instal the wheels then it did to re set the quarter. I am in no way a rivet counter type but that just bothered me to no end. It was very noticeable in a double header on a curve.
Before dropping money on the tooling make sure that is the problem. Removing one side rod and running it is one way. If the jerk is gone it may well be a quarter issue. Another thing to look for is a bent side rod. They both must be the exact same length. If one is bent then a bind will be created twice for one wheel revolution. One more thing to check is to place one side rod on top of the other and make sure every hole is centered on the other. If one hole is off even by a fraction it will cause a slight bind. Quality locos will have jointed side rods and sometimes the rivets loosen and become sloppy. A couple taps with a mini ball peen hammer on an anvil will bring it back to speck.
This is in no way your problem but one of my Spectrum 2-8-0 the drive belt took a set from sitting and made the little loco wobble as it went down the track. After a couple hours of running the motor drive gear started spinning on the shaft. It has since resided on the display shelf.
Hope all this helps in some way to resolve the problem.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Strezzy, if you have a hobby shop, or a repair guy nearby, who can investigate this engine's quartering, it has to be done with a tool. North West Short Line (NWSL) is a smallish company in the hobby that makes quartering tools, gear pullers, wheel pullers, entire drive sets with motors and gear towers....quite the deal, actually. But the quartering tool is a must. Some guys can eyeball it and get it so close that it works just fine.
Crandell
No tractions tires - I had heard this one before.
I would be willing to try the requartering, but am not sure how. Is there a description somewhere or is it just a matter of positioning the drivers properly? In other words, how do you properly requarter the drivers?
Strezz.
Are you running those traction tires? They have caused nothing but problems with all the BLI steamers in the club. Jerky running can also be caused by an out of quarter wheel set. It must have come with that little nut driver. Take one side rod off and run it. If you have no jerk then one or more wheel set is not quartered. I have expensive brass locos that needed re quartered.
If the frustration level becomes an issue then a hobby it is not. When the steam starts popping the safety valve its time to drop the fire for a little while and cool down then start again later. This is what I do. Its always easier the second time with a cool head.
Remember me saying at the beginning of the post about my BLI Hudson has never has a problem? Well scratch that, no power pick up the tender.
Cuda Ken
Decoder changes (no back EMF (CV2, 3, and 4 and CV 29 set to no DC) did not work.
The only thing I will try is full decoder replacement unless some already knows this will not work.
Thanks you all for your responses!
I would not have started a thread had the issue been with one or even 2 locos. 4 of 4 on the Paragon 2 line seems out of the ordinary.
I too have had an issue with a Spectrum Shay - full immediate replacement.
I too have completely functional BLI diesels. No issues here.
I will go home tonight and try those decoder suggestions. I am hoping (yes "hope" is the reason I keep coming back) that this will solve the problem.
Has anyone ever replaced the BLI decoder and put in a Tsunami?
locoi1sa Lets not compare BLI to Spectrum. Most will agree that the Spectrum 2-8-0 is a great loco. Both of mine quit running only after a couple hours. The plastic motor gear slips on the shaft. My 44 ton is on its third motor. And both of my K4s could only pull 3 cars without spinning its drivers on a small grade until I added lead to every place I could fit it. The only good spectrum I have is the 4-8-2. That make a score of 1 out of 6. If that is a good track record then why are we complaining about BLI? If you want the best quality control program then bring back the kit locos. All my Bowsers run great and can pull a house down. Mass production of a precision steam loco is bound to have problems every now and then. By the time a mass produced part is found out of tolerance there could probably be hundreds already assembled and packed. Take side rods for an example. If one hole is off even by a thousandth of an inch there could be binding and poor performance. Testing every loco is impractical so they randomly spot check here and there. The hundred in between could be good or bad. No one knows for sure. At least the manufacture is making good on repairing or replacing defective ones. Pete
Lets not compare BLI to Spectrum. Most will agree that the Spectrum 2-8-0 is a great loco. Both of mine quit running only after a couple hours. The plastic motor gear slips on the shaft. My 44 ton is on its third motor. And both of my K4s could only pull 3 cars without spinning its drivers on a small grade until I added lead to every place I could fit it. The only good spectrum I have is the 4-8-2. That make a score of 1 out of 6. If that is a good track record then why are we complaining about BLI?
If you want the best quality control program then bring back the kit locos. All my Bowsers run great and can pull a house down. Mass production of a precision steam loco is bound to have problems every now and then. By the time a mass produced part is found out of tolerance there could probably be hundreds already assembled and packed. Take side rods for an example. If one hole is off even by a thousandth of an inch there could be binding and poor performance. Testing every loco is impractical so they randomly spot check here and there. The hundred in between could be good or bad. No one knows for sure. At least the manufacture is making good on repairing or replacing defective ones.
Did you return those those 2-8-0's for your free replacements? I have eight of them, never had a gear slip yet.
Yes the K4, like the N&W J, has its flaws, but can be made very nice with less skills then it takes to build a Bowser kit.
You can choose to compare oe not compare anything you want, but 30 to 9 Bachmann wins at my house. My purchases - BLI = 44% failure rate, Bachmann = 10% failure rate. I love paying twice as much for four times the problems.
BLI service department - willing but unable to help with my defective Mikados because they have been made in 4 different factories and not all parts interchange - they could not supply the needed parts.
Bachmann service department - Has replaced all three problem locos no questions asked, returned my shells the one time they could not match the road name.
And we agree on one point - the 4-8-2 Heavy is in my view one of the best locos from any manufacturer in the last 10 years. I have nine, they are the backbone of the ATLANTIC CENTRAL steam fleet.
And my five 2-8-4's converted to 2-8-2's run great as well. Those did get a lot of extra weight during the conversion, and now they pull great too.
BLI has yet to even tempt me we anytihng in last several years, but I'm making room for some EM-1's and maybe a 2-6-0 or two.
Sheldon